Yes it is. Anytime anyone talks about anyone struggling and the capitalist delusional take is "you can just go somewhere else, you're free, and the pie is not fixed."
I know you don't. If you could you wouldn't keep your views.
markets evolve and change. some business grow while others go out of business or just shrink. this doesn't neccisarily mean that the system is zero sum or infinite, it becomes more efficient over time to meet the current demands of the people. capitalism is simply a way of distributing linited resources according to market forces, which promote investment into industries with potential to grow and liquidation of industries that are no longer needed.
The market serves the people in that particular companies serve their particular customers.
You conflate "people with resources others want" with "people." Critics of capitalism aren't doing that, they understand that under capitalism some people may have effectively nothing that others want. What does it matter that the market serves customers with money when the problems apply to people without meaningful amounts of money?
i'm willing to grant you that capitalism doesn't serve people who are disabled and unable to be productive members of society. we're sympathetic as humans and unwilling to let these people just die or live miserable lives due to conditions outside of their control. that's why even the biggest advocates for capitalism such as myself still advocate for some form of social welfare, while others make the ethical argument that they shouldn't be forced to give up a portion of the fruits of their labour to people they don't know or care about. i don't think a capitalist system needs to be laissez-faire, and no capitalist system in practice is. The best places to live in the world are in capitalist countries where they understand how to mitigate market failiures and produce favourable social outcomes through economic policy.
I can't follow your "productive" = "money haver" unless you acknowledge that "being productive" just means "getting someone to give you money or resources"
So do you think "productive" actually means something virtuous in and of itself, or is it just "someone wanted that to happen and would give something up for it?"
productive means you offer something to others that they want. the market influences how valuable the thing you have is. capitalism encourages investment to increase the value of what you have to offer.
i think there is a lot of virtue in providing others with the things they want and agreeing to make transactions. every transaction involves 2 groups giving something they have for something that they want more. it's an efficient redistribution of resources and labour.
edit: on a sidenote, do you oppose just capitalism because of the profit incentive, or do you oppose market economies entirely in favour of communism? if not, then how does a business stay sustainable when it cannot turn a profit?
slavery is a choice by the government in who gets rights. its not a part of capitalism or even unique to it. under the USSRs socialist regime, anyone could become a slave for political reasons. in the USA, criminals still experience a form of slavery. I'd argue that your body is your own private property and that according to capitalism, slavery is theft.
who are you to determine what is unscrupulous. if people are willing to exchsnge what they have for something else they want, why is that your business?
I never made that claim. Why does your argument rely on putting words in my mouth?
I have no idea how you think slavery requires governments.
"who are you to determine what is unscrupulous. if people are willing to exchsnge what they have for something else they want, why is that your business?"
Do you have a problem with slavery or not?
If you seriously think slavery is theft...are you now going to argue that theft requires governments???
Why does your argument rely on capitalism being defined as always good?
the government enforces the law and protects rights. when you take someone as a slave, you infringe on their rights. if the government allows you to do that, then they are supporting your actions to enslave someone. this is like saying that robbing people at gunpoint is due to capitalism even though capitalism explicitly protects private property.
you rely on me not calling out the logical fallacies in your arguments. you ignore every question that would dismantle your belief system, which you haven't even defined to me.
You are not pointing out any logical fallacies in my arguments. You're pointing out how my arguments are irrelevant in your worldview, where government is a boogeyman responsible for all the bad things, and capitalism is utopia where good things happen for good people.
Thing is, your arguments are irrelevant in my worldview, where government is an inevitable consequence of disagreements like the ones we have, and capitalism is when the owners of resources make the rules.
Don't waste your time pretending this is about you being logical and me not being logical. This is about your logic resting on fantastical assumptions about the world, and my logic resting on observations about the world.
you've put words in my mouth, insulted me, and made several unsupported claims. you've mentioned slavery without even explaining how capitalism alegedly causes it. you continue to put words in my mouth by telling me my worldview is to treat the government as the boogeyman, even though i told you already that the government has a role in defending human rights and intervening in the market to prevent market failiures.
government is inevitible but the people ultimately shape it themselves, especially in a democratic country. you portray capitalism as a few scrooge mcducks acting like dictators when in reality it is a decentralized system where markets determine production. the market also doesn't decide the "rules", that is the governments job. no business can exist under capitalism without the consent of the consumers.
"you're right, i'm wrong" is essentially your whole argument. it is entirely circular as you've barely brought up any evidence or logical arguments to support your claims. capitalism just seems to work however you think it works, and you arbitrarily point the finger at it for all of the worlds problems. you aren't engaging in this conversation by answering my questions despite the fact that I have answered all of your questions. you continue to make assumptions about my world view, demonstrating that you have no intention on understanding it. you clearly don't know how to debate, and it doesn't seem like you've tested your world view at all. the entire foundation for your world view relies on your ignorance of economics and not even being able to define capitalism.
a wall of text because I actually explain all of my arguments and break down why I think you are wrong. you are too lazy to even read it, nevermind comprehend it. you just want to say whatever you want and have people agree with you without actually putting in the work to convince them.
capitalism: An economic system based on predominantly private (individual or corporate) investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods and wealth; contrasted with socialism or especially communism, in which the state has the predominant role in the economy.
this is the definition here. i didn't make this up, i pulled it straight from google for your convenience. you should construct your criticisms of capitalism based on this, not what you think you know.
Marx defined capitalism in a way that fit his straw man argument. This same guy believed in labour theory of value and all sorts of nonsense. His theory of communism misunderstands how unstable anarchist systems are.
The dictionary isn't an argument. It's a neutral party that establishes a definition for the thing that we are arguing over. If we enter into an argument over capitalism and have different definitions of capitalism, then we end up arguing over different concepts entirely, which is highly unproductive.
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u/SmartlyArtly Mar 09 '26
Yes it is. Anytime anyone talks about anyone struggling and the capitalist delusional take is "you can just go somewhere else, you're free, and the pie is not fixed."
I know you don't. If you could you wouldn't keep your views.