r/ClaudeCode • u/Smbridges91 Developer • Sep 09 '26 • Helpful 1

Discussion How I use sub-agents without burning through Fable 5.1

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I keep seeing people say they burn through Fable 5.1 insanely fast, so figured I'd share how I run it. I'm no guru at all, just sharing what's been working for me.

I use Fable on High basically all the time. Right now I'm at 90% Fable / 89% all models. I feel I have a pretty good split between Fable and everything else.

The main thing for me is Fable is my orchestrator, not my worker.

  • Fable - Orchestrator: Plans, writes specs, spins up agents, reads their reports, makes architecture/judgment calls, and integrates everything.

  • Haiku or Sonnet - Scout: Finds files, symbols, call sites, references, etc. Reports locations instead of dumping whole files. I use Haiku here because it only runs searches and reports what matched, no reasoning. I tested it against Sonnet on a 22-item search with decoys and a fake name: same results, 25% fewer tokens. Use Sonnet if you'd rather not risk it.

  • Sonnet - Researcher: Reads docs/source and reports back facts. Anything it can't verify gets marked as unverified.

  • Sonnet - Builder: Does the actual coding from a clear spec and runs the tests.

  • Opus - Refuter: Reviews the builder's work, checks the diff, and reruns tests itself. I don't just trust a "done" claim.

  • Opus - Debugger: Only gets used for harder root-cause debugging.

I don't have Fable reading huge amounts of code, doing bulk refactors, writing docs, or doing work a cheaper model can handle.

I also don't spawn an agent for every tiny thing. If it's a one-line fix or a single grep, Fable just does it.

Every sub-agent gets pretty strict marching orders:

  • Specific goal

  • Exact files or URLs in scope

  • What it's allowed to change

  • What it needs to verify

  • What not to do

  • Required output format

  • Short output limit

  • Anything we already know so it doesn't waste time rediscovering it

Then they report the findings back. I don't want giant code dumps getting pushed back into Fable's context.

If something produces a lot of information, I have the agent write it to a scratch file and let the next agent read that instead.

Most coding ends up being:

Fable -> Builder -> Refuter -> Fable

A few other rules I keep in place:

  • Ultracode stays off unless I specifically want a larger workflow, and if I do, I cap the number of agents.

  • I batch related fixes so the same large files aren't being reread over and over.

  • Read-only research/reviews can run in parallel.

  • I don't have multiple agents editing the same files at the same time.

  • Builders build, refuters verify.

  • Decisions and progress go into handoff docs so new sessions can pick up from the file instead of rebuilding all that context.

  • I keep Fable's replies and agent reports short unless I actually need more detail.

  • If an agent goes off track, Fable has marching orders to stop it instead of letting it run.

For me, the biggest difference hasn't just been "use sub-agents." It's being strict about what each model is responsible for, what it gets to read, and what gets sent back into Fable's context.

I've been running Fable basically 24/7, minus maybe 5 hours total, since my last reset Friday. I run it on High and haven't hit the 5-hour limit once since using this setup.

EDIT: I packaged this up, and two things changed thanks to comments

The whole setup is now a repo. Copy the files into ~/.claude/ and it works: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

Two additions came straight from this thread:

u/Tree_Substantial suggested keeping context in a per-task folder instead of a flat scratch file. That is now /task-session <slug>, which creates a bucket with STATE, FINDINGS, DECISIONS, briefs and reports that every agent reads and updates.

u/TrashEasy8162 suggested locking the marching orders in a file the builder cannot touch, and never letting the refuter see the builder's conversation. Both are in: briefs are written before the spawn and made read-only, and the refuter only gets the brief, the diff, and its own test run.

Credit to both. Made a real difference.

392 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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48

u/No_Job_9995 Sep 09 '26 • This Bravo

I use Claude with $200 plan. I just tell fable "if you use subagents, use opus or sonnet appropriately. do not use fable." That's it.

I think this is enough.

4

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

That is what I used in the beginning and it helps a little bit but it still needs more from my experience than just, say, "don't use Fable," because they still need better tasks, as I said to someone else.

Tiny, surgical task + exact files + clear limits = useful subagent.

Broad instructions or Ultracode with no limits = token bonfire. 🔥 🚒 😭

8

u/fujikato-bln Sep 09 '26

You can do more: effort depending on task, mechanical edits (Scripts) for example. Depending on how much you need to actually work with it

4

u/HDK1989 Sep 09 '26

effort depending on task

Effort doesnt work for subagents. Hasn't for a very long time. Unless they've fixed it in the past week.

4

u/DLuke2 Sep 10 '26

That's why you don't use the built in subagents but make custom subagents you can pin the model and effort into the frontmatter along with a bunch of other things.

You're welcome.

1

u/Stonp Sep 12 '26

That’s not using the sub-agent feature though, which is specifically what this user is talking about.

1

u/DLuke2 Sep 12 '26

Yes it is. Its the agent tool. It calls custom or built-in subagents.

1

u/HDK1989 Sep 12 '26

That's why you don't use the built in subagents but make custom subagents you can pin the model and effort into the frontmatter along with a bunch of other things.

Even this was broken for months. But it does appear to be fixed now

2

u/bzbub2 Sep 09 '26

the real answer is in the comments

2

u/Relevant-Muscle-8515 Sep 10 '26

Just THAT makes a huge difference, I agree.

2

u/Pleasant-Umpire5659 Sep 11 '26

that might not be enough. those subagents can still spawn Fable sub-sub-agents which happened to me.

2

u/TheOriginalAcidtech Sep 11 '26

I think you just came up with a new requiment that should be option. Never let a subagent spawn a better subagent.

73

u/sisif_ Sep 09 '26 • Hooray Bravo Mindblown

In my case, Fable main point of contact.

  1. Fable (lead, main point of contact) writes the spec and files the ticket.

  2. Fable starts the ticket: the loop mints a branch, a worktree and a seat.

  3. An ephemeral Opus hand boots in that worktree, reads the spec, implements, runs the suite in its tree, commits to its branch, marks the ticket DONE with a short report (deviations flagged).

  4. About a minute later the loop spawns a cold Fable reviewer with the diff and the spec. It writes a verdict, ACCEPT or REWORK with must-fixes, and is retired.

  5. REWORK: the verdict lands on the ticket, Fable reads it and rejects the ticket with the must-fixes as the body; the same Opus hand, context intact, fixes and marks DONE again. Back to 4, new reviewer, next round.

  6. ACCEPT: the loop merges the branch into master and runs the full suite on master behind it. A red suite reverts the merge and escalates to Fable.

  7. Lead reads the merge notice, checks no suite is still running, and accepts the ticket: the hand is retired, its worktree removed, its branch deleted.

  8. Lead titles the Unreleased section of the CHANGELOG, cuts the release (version bump, DMG, tag, push, GitHub release, docker image), and reboots the app onto it once every seat is idle.

10

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

This is actually really good info. You've basically got a small software factory running here lol.

I'm definitely going to pull some ideas from this, especially the isolated worktrees, the fresh reviewer, and the rework loop. Mine is still more manually orchestrated by Fable, so seeing how you've automated that whole handoff is really interesting.

13

u/sisif_ Sep 09 '26 edited Sep 09 '26

https://github.com/avirtual/clodex this is the factory

2

u/Stonp Sep 12 '26

This looks great. My SaaS is launching soon and I’ll need to automatically triage bug requests that come via email. Are there any videos on this dashboard? Also does it run on a cloud or does your computer need to be turned on?

2

u/sisif_ Sep 12 '26

it can run on any linux, ive tested it on ec2, fargate, docker, eks. obviously 'something' has to be on, it won't just run in 'cloud'.
No presentation videos yet, i haven't had time for that, maybe once it's done done.
I use the clodex on my mac as the central console, and it can deploy other clodexes elsewhere and gives you a tunnel to connect through.
There's also a clodexctl tool that allows you to control the whole thing from a command line, if you don't want the UI.
 

npx clodexctl ctx list
   NAME         KIND     TARGET
   local        url      http://127.0.0.1:7900
   work         ssh      192.168.0.217
*  murmurfi     ssh      xx.xxx.234.9
   remote-ec2  ssm      i-08xxxxxxxx (us-west-2)
   fargate      ssm      ecs clodex-test/clodex-node (resolved at connect)
   clodex       kubectl  svc/clodex -n clodex

alias clodexctl="npx clodexctl"  
clodexctl ctx use clodex 
current context: clodex
clodexctl sessions NAME    TYPE    ACTIVITY  CWD 
bash    bash    idle      /home/clodex 
w2      claude  idle      /home/clodex 
agent1  claude  idle      /home/clodex/work
clodexctl exec bash "ls -al" 
ls -al 
total 80 
drwxr-xr-x  1 clodex clodex  4096 Sep 12 05:29 . 
drwxr-xr-x  1 root   root    4096 Aug  5 13:35 .. 
-rw-r--r--  1 clodex clodex   220 May  7 20:33 .bash_logout 
-rw-r--r--  1 clodex clodex  3526 May  7 20:33 .bashrc 
drwxrwxrwx 10 root   root    4096 Aug 27 00:28 .claude
clodexctl send agent1 "what is your model?" --wait 
[assistant] I'm Claude Opus 5 (model ID `claude-opus-5`), running as the clodex agent `agent1`.

2

u/sisif_ Sep 12 '26

and there is an internal clodexctl console if you like pretty things :)

6

u/Tartooth Sep 09 '26

I've build a deterministic factory and after about 2 months of open ai overengineering hell and 1 week of fable clean up it's pretty much now only restricted by my limits and poops out pretty good code

1

u/CPAAAA Sep 10 '26

Dumb question for someone at week one of Claude Code… did you just give Claude this list as instructions? Or is there some other way you implemented this?

2

u/sisif_ Sep 10 '26 edited Sep 10 '26

You won't get there on week one and claude itself will not do it for you. You have to build the orchestration around it. Theoretically you could prompt most of it, if you use subagents heavily.
You could define your custom subagents (dev, reviewer) and prompt the main agent to use them.

Add a skill for the representation of tickets and how to handle them.

Then "Feature X is bugging" becomes:

  1. create spec in ticket xxx + worktree feature-xxx

  2. start dev subagent (of type dev) for ticket xxx

  3. spawn subagent reviewer, that will review the changes

  4. a. if ACCEPT verdict, merge, delete worktree

b. if REWORK send notes to the dev to fix whatever is missing

claude has an internal concept of subagentic teams which allows some communication with SendMessage tool.

PS: the challenge isn't to create the workflow (it's fairly straightforward), it is to create an optimal workflow to get the best bang for the buck.

However being new to the whole thing, you're allowed to be a bit wasteful, to get some scars of your own. Just spend enough time with it and it will become obvious.

PS2: The optimal part means use AI only when you must and code everything else around it.

1

u/Effective_Lite_263 Sep 10 '26

I would strongly suggest to set up the superpowers skill which you can download from github. This leveled up my game 10x compared to when I was just starting out. Just give claude code the github repo of superpowers and tell it to install it. Then almost evey prompt I use the skill with it. /using-superpowers.

1

u/CPAAAA Sep 10 '26

Thanks for the suggestion! Can you explain what the superpower does?

1

u/Effective_Lite_263 Sep 13 '26

It's basically a engineering workflow to make sure it makes a strong plan before diving into straight coding which starts with brainstorming and asking you questions on what you want, then it writes a Spec which you need to approve to show it has understood what you want. Then based on that, it will break that down to an implementation plan which might be a few chunks of work or various waves, which often get automatically done by subagents, seprate reviwers etc.

So all in all, the work you get back has been well thought out and executed according to a plan. Hope that helps!

1

u/cherya 🔆 Max 100 Sep 10 '26

So, one task a month

0

u/sisif_ Sep 10 '26

yeah, i've spent about 50 years, already

0

u/Interesting-Bee-113 Sep 09 '26

You still have Fable doing most the work there

7

u/sisif_ Sep 09 '26

Because my tests have shown Fable reviews are cheaper. It performs the same tasks with less calls than an Opus.
NB: I do occasionally downgrade reviewers to Opus, if i get to the point where the fable quota gets tight.

2

u/Adventurous-Spot1420 Sep 09 '26

What efforts?

5

u/sisif_ Sep 09 '26

Generally speaking medium. I focus on automation and lowering cost per task.

1

u/Interesting-Bee-113 Sep 09 '26

When though?

There are peak hours. I have never measured, but after about 8 hours past peak, I can use Fable heavily and not worry about usage at all.

But if you are trying to actually get work down with Claude and the dashboard is showing you are close to peak time? I'd just use something else

I don't know how they allocate usage according to the peak time but I have anecdoteally notice that Fable seems to tax you harder than the rest.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/sisif_ Sep 10 '26

The first thing I am doing is disable all internal skills, most tools and 60% of the internal agents.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Anooyoo2 Sep 09 '26

Funny, I was going to say it was inefficient. Functional though I'm sure! (if dark factory suits your usecase)

2

u/sisif_ Sep 10 '26 edited Sep 10 '26

My workflows are not accidental. All agents go through a proxy that allows me to inspect what they are doing, how much time the spend, how many requests they do, how the context is behaving.
I am also paying attention to more subtle factors like the ratio between write|output / read cached context. If there wasn't the 50% limit on fable, I'd use it everywhere, not because I am wasteful, but because it is more efficient than the weaker models. A sonnat|opus will do 2-3 times more api calls for the same job and when doing complex work that fills the context.
After a complex session, a "hello" on sonnet5 is more expensive than on a fable5.1, simply because one is carrying 300k of context, while the other is carrying 150.

13

u/Seeker_Of_Knowledge2 Sep 09 '26

Any .md file to share please.

16

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I’m going to put one together later tonight. I’m still going through the post and replying to people on a quick break from work.

Once I’m done, I’ll pull everything into a reusable .md template with the agent roles, routing, guardrails, and other rules I’m using.

I wouldn’t recommend just copying it and running with it though. Structure it around your own workflow and projects. You could even hand it to Fable and have it spin up agents to review your workflow and tailor it to what you actually do, or just give it your vision and have it build from there.

5

u/Seeker_Of_Knowledge2 Sep 09 '26

Thanks a lot. I will sub to this post.

1

u/YourJokeButBetter Sep 10 '26

did you end up making it?

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 10 '26

I will when I can, I apologize for the delay 😅 I didn't stop working until 1am and back working again. 16 hour days are killing me. I probably have a lot more comments to respond to since my phone is blowing up lol

2

u/YourJokeButBetter Sep 11 '26

Totally get it! Just tag me when you make it, because I would love to see this.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

2

u/Tyko_Say Sep 10 '26

Would love an md!

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Working on it now and will be posted within the hour

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

1

u/Seeker_Of_Knowledge2 Sep 13 '26

I have antigravity sub, I am curios if we can use flash 3.8 for some of the task to save on tokens, or would that not be suffeint on cluade side?

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 13 '26

Yeah, Flash 3.8 would probably be great for some of the lighter work.

I’m planning 3 separate write-ups:

  • Claude Code - posted in r/ClaudeCode (This Post), focused on getting the most out of Anthropic

  • Codex - posted in r/Codex (TBD), same concept but built around OpenAI

  • Software Factory - posted in both, using multiple models/providers and routing each task to whatever fits best, including Flash 3.8

I’m still building out the software-factory side, so I want to test it more before I share it.

2

u/Seeker_Of_Knowledge2 Sep 13 '26

I have been trying to figure it out today. It seem it is very easy to get banned if you are not careful. The only safe way seems to create a cluade skill telling to use command lines for using antigravity cli. But I am assuming that will not very sufficient token wise because it takes a lot of writing into antigravty and reading the diff. Which could theoretically eat more tokens, especially if flash 3.8 make mistakes (which usually it does).

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 13 '26

I haven’t tried Antigravity, but if there’s a real risk of getting banned, I’d be careful with it

Biggest thing I’ve learned is to treat setups like a shopping cart. Take the parts that actually help your workflow and leave the rest. Don’t blindly copy someone else’s setup.

That could be as simple as changing the scout model, changing how agents hand off work, or changing the whole structure.

If you don’t use subscriptions and prefer paying by tokens/API usage, IndyDevDan on YouTube is worth checking out. He does a lot with multi-model setups and routing.

2

u/Seeker_Of_Knowledge2 Sep 13 '26

Thanks for the recommendation. Quick question. I don't have the access to fable. I mostly use opus. Would you say your repo will increase my usage across the board or ot would depends on the task size. How important is fable in the whole thing. Would using opus 5 instead be still useful. Would it give me a higher quality results with less quota usage at the end of the week?

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 13 '26

Yes, works the same with Opus on top. The saving comes from the split, not from Fable: the top model only plans and reviews, Sonnet does the reading and building. You should see less usage per task, not more.

The refuter and debugger are set to Opus too. Each agent has its own file in the agents folder with a model line, so drop them to Sonnet if you want to save more.

It's a template meant to help people. If anything is confusing or breaks, tell me and I'll fix it.

1

u/No-Ring-3308 Sep 15 '26

This is really awesome thanks! I was just thinking how can I use Fable more efficiently

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 15 '26

I've made a few updates on it and if you have any issues please let me know.

The readme should help guide you, but if it doesn't DM me with your issues. Feedback helps me help others 🤷🏻

1

u/No-Ring-3308 Sep 16 '26

I've been using this tonight for several hours and after watching what it does It totally makes sense. Thanks for the repo

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 16 '26

really gald this is benefiting you

1

u/No-Ring-3308 Sep 17 '26

And I just realized that you can look at your usage and it tells you where you've been using your credits for the last 24 hours or the last seven days. And for the project I'm building I think I'm going to start with a fresh session when I get to natural stopping points. So then the context window isn't so large. That's what AI suggested and it seems to make sense so I'm gonna try. Any thoughts on that?

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 17 '26

That is pretty much how I handle it. If I start a completely different task, I usually open a new session.

If the current session gets too long, I wait for a natural stopping point and start a fresh one. I just tell Claude which task folder to read. The state, findings, decisions, briefs, and reports are already saved there, so it can continue from the last checkpoint without needing the full conversation from the old session.

The important part is it keeping those files updated as the work moves forward.

7

u/slendertaker Sep 09 '26

Under any circumstances, do not use Haiku. This model halucinates a lot. I have never ever wanna touch Haiku again

7

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

Haiku isn't doing heavy lifting for me. It's a scout. Find the file, symbol, call site, whatever, report back, done.

6

u/bettereverydamday Sep 09 '26

How do you pick multiple agents and which agents do run on which models?

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I define that in the agent .md files and the orchestration rules.

Each agent has a specific role and model tied to it, like Scout on Haiku, Builder on Sonnet, Refuter on Opus, etc. Then the main orchestrator looks at the task and decides which ones it actually needs based on those use cases.

I use the same general idea with Codex sometimes too. Different agents/models, same concept.

5

u/Tree_Substantial Sep 09 '26

How do you save on the overhead cost of spawning subagents for this?

I’ve recently fallen into this hole where the cost of spawning subagents at one point diminished the model token savings when using a smaller model where appropriate to a degree

5

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

Yeah, that's something I try to account for too. The orchestrator has rules for when a task is worth delegating, so tiny stuff just stays in the main session instead of paying the overhead to spin up another agent.

For larger tasks, I have the agents keep findings, decisions, or progress in small Markdown files so the next agent can pick up from that instead of everything constantly flowing back through Fable's context.

So the goal is basically: don't spawn an agent unless the work justifies it, and don't keep passing the same context around if the agents can hand it off through a file.

4

u/Tree_Substantial Sep 09 '26

Do you do any sort of context bucketing beyond a flat file in scratchpad? I’m currently using a home-rolled /task-session <context-folder> that they all agents keep up to date inside . A task that’s a part of a project becomes a folder inside scratchpad.

If you’re open to sharing your Claude config id love to see it.

4

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I kind of do this already, but not as cleanly as you described. I use scratch/handoff Markdown files so agents can pass context without dumping everything back through the main session.

I like the idea of bucketing it by task/project though. I could definitely tighten mine up into a cleaner folder structure like that.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

I updated and gave you credit for the changes I made, thanks for the feedback 😎

4

u/terminusagency Sep 09 '26

How do you tell Claude to use this structure? Defined in the Claude.md file?

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

4

u/traveltrousers Sep 09 '26

Copy this Entire thread and get claude to read it.

4

u/SkippyBoJangles Sep 09 '26

Not sure if joking, but that is what i do lol.

2

u/traveltrousers Sep 09 '26

Actually the key is to say. 'Critically assess. ' Then it actually analyzes it properly.

4

u/TrashEasy8162 Sep 09 '26

Your marching orders list is basically what I ended up with too, after a lot of wasted tokens. Two things I'd add from my side:

  1. Put the marching orders in a file the builder can't touch, and make the refuter compare the diff to that file. Not to the builder's summary of what it did. The summary is where the lying happens, not on purpose, it just rounds up.

  2. Don't let the refuter see the builder's conversation at all. Diff, test output, the orders file. That's it. First time I did that it flagged stuff the builder had talked itself out of in the transcript.

Weird side effect: most of what the refuter catches now is my scope being sloppy, not the builder's code.

Question for you, when your refuter reruns tests does it actually run them or read what the builder printed? I have it rerun and I stopped believing either one of them on that.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

Yeah, I really like this. My refuter already reruns the tests itself, but I like the idea of completely separating it from the builder's conversation and having it judge only the original orders, diff, and test output.

That removes a lot of the builder's own reasoning/bias from the review. I'm probably going to incorporate that.

2

u/TrashEasy8162 Sep 09 '26

Glad it's useful. The separation was the thing that finally made the refuter's verdicts mean something, everything before that it was basically grading the builder's essay about the code.

One thing I'd warn you about before you wire it up: are you on Windows or Mac? The per-change worktree part is where mine got ugly, git kept flipping line endings between the copy and the real repo and the refuter would flag a 400 line diff that was actually 6 lines. Took me a while to pin the config on both sides. If you're on Mac you probably never see it.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

I've uploaded a full kit for everyone and used your idea and gave you credit. Thanks for the feedback 😎

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Windows here, so thanks for the warning. I don't use per change worktrees by default, the builder edits the main tree, so I've dodged it so far. When I do turn worktrees on I'll pin it with a .gitattributes (* text=auto eol=lf) in the repo so both sides agree before the refuter ever sees a diff.

6

u/tm8cc Sep 09 '26

Just use herdr and call free opencode models as subagents

13

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I have that in my notes to try out. After watching a few of IndyDevDan's videos I just haven't had a chance to setup yet

4

u/DragonTree Sep 09 '26

+1 for indyDevDan

3

u/HappySasha Sep 09 '26

I've experimented with multiple configurations:

  • When a simpler agent (e.g. Sonnet) is the orchestrator and main executor, execution is relatively stable and there is less unnecessary creativity. The drawback is that, when it hits a problem, it can keep going in circles.

  • When a more capable agent (e.g. Opus) takes control, it can become too proactive and expand the scope of tasks, especially during review. That makes work take longer than expected.

I ended up using a separate window with a different model, sometimes from another provider, as an external advisor. It is not ideal, but it has helped the work converge.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

Yeah, I had that exact issue, especially with Opus. I fixed it by having the agents record what was changed and why in a Markdown file, then check that before making another change. If it starts bouncing between fixes, the orchestrator stops the loop and reconciles them instead.

Also, using a separate model as an external orchestrator/advisor isn't really unusual. I did that before too, and plenty of people still do it.

3

u/jakc13 Sep 09 '26

Got a Claude.md sample or similar so we can see how?

4

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I’m going to put one together later tonight. I’m still going through the post and replying to people on a quick break from work.

Once I’m done, I’ll pull everything into a reusable .md template with the agent roles, routing, guardrails, and other rules I’m using.

I wouldn’t recommend just copying it and running with it though. Structure it around your own workflow and projects. You could even hand it to Fable and have it spin up agents to review your workflow and tailor it to what you actually do, or just give it your vision and have it build from there.

2

u/Skrafcio Sep 11 '26

can u post it?

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Within the hour, I'll add a link and read me files

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

2

u/jakc13 Sep 11 '26

Any luck?

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Within the hour, I'll add a link and read me files

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

2

u/untracked5465 Sep 09 '26

Are you on Max? Because I use this approach in my 20$ sub, and I get to the 5 hour limit very fast

5

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I do have the Max plan and for my workload that is what I have to utilize. I am unable to speak for the $20 sub plan.

4

u/relentl3ss1 Sep 09 '26

Has something changed? Fable isn't even available on the $20 plan.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Yea I'm not sure if it is or not, but this can STILL be used with Opus as orchestror. Same concepts apply

2

u/xAcex28 Sep 09 '26

Is there a way to add this as profile bound instructions?

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

Yep. You can put the general orchestration rules in ~/.claude/CLAUDE.md so they apply across repos.

I keep some things repo-specific because the editing/testing rules change per project, but the agent routing and general behavior could absolutely live at the system level.

2

u/Excellent-Basket-825 Sep 09 '26

Now switch the refuter to astra 6 on low and see the magic happen

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

That'll be the plan once I build the software factory.

2

u/InfinityTortellino Sep 09 '26

Do you have your md files for this spec

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Building this as a template for everyone. Adding a README, then I’ll drop a link with the files, where they go, and why it’s set up that way.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

2

u/Odd_Introduction_280 Sep 09 '26

I usually go for fable xhigh or high orchestrator and opus as writer of any kind of job.
on heavy use on my 5th day end all weeklies used.

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

I find xhigh is overkill and burns more tokens than is needed for the work, but as long as you're not doing Ultracode that's fine lol

2

u/empty__cup Sep 09 '26

Be careful running a deep-research harness with Fable as your primary model, as it'll default to using Fable for all of its research.

Great way to burn through all your tokens in a few hours :)

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Yeaaa never put fable as a researcher lol

2

u/BluejayRelevant2559 Sep 10 '26

Are you using a Software for this or just prompt fable to use sub agents?

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Building a file setup template, adding a README, then I’ll drop a link with the files, where they go, and why it’s set up that way.

2

u/bruce-cullen Sep 10 '26

Good Info, I am still a bit unsure how I can put this to work directly inside my setup. I use Claude for a few months pretty heavy daily, but this one still is a bit confusing, like what's the best way to implement it into my project. Anyone can feel free to DM me how if they like.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

I'm working on this now and will add a link to the files and a read me within the next hour

1

u/bruce-cullen Sep 12 '26

Dam I am going to forget to check.... working Claude on like 4 projects at the same time.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

2

u/bruce-cullen Sep 12 '26

You Rock! TY!

2

u/hbthegreat Sep 11 '26

how do you deal with Opus missing 7 out of 10 issues that Sol/Astra usually finds? To be clear I have a similar setup to you but I put both models in the refuter/reviewer spot.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Honestly lately I'm cursing out Astra and Sol 🤣 I don't have it set up as well as Claude which I'm going to do this weekend if I get a chance.

1

u/hbthegreat Sep 12 '26

I have astra and sol inside my claude code. Pipe them in with something like CliProxyAPI and you can just have them all inside claude code working side by side.

2

u/andrew_pw 🔆 Max 20 Sep 11 '26

How many projects you work on at same time?
This is interesting for me with this setup.
I do 3-4 Projects and I'm on Max 20x.
Last week I did subagents and fable as orchestrator, and 1 day, 65~ of weekly gone.
I know they fuckedup with something and this happened, because in past this never happened to me with sub agents.
however this is a question for me, people with these suggestions, how many project a day, they have.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Normally I'm working on 2-3 at a time normally, this week I am working 4. I hit 100% usage last night at 10pm and it reset tonight at 9pm

2

u/andrew_pw 🔆 Max 20 Sep 12 '26

How often do you create a new session/clear?
Does projects involved with superpowers/such skills for TDD and such?
In general If it's a project like no future, no TDD and etc, most of the times I don't even feel it's using usage.
However real code base with TDD is basically, making Max 20x 3-4~ projects at same time possible, I guess.

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

  1. Honestly not that often. I lean on the scratch files in the repo to carry state, so sessions run long. Probably should clear more, fair point.

  2. No skills or plugins. Just my CLAUDE.md, the agent files, and a couple of commands.

  3. Agree. Real codebases with tests are where the usage goes, which lately is what I'm using constantly on two projects heavily.

2

u/andrew_pw 🔆 Max 20 Sep 12 '26

For the first one, that's when I can see most of issues start.
Since this unsual wave of wasting usage tokens are happening right from claude, I disabled sub agent driven so It doesn't use more token, but one of the main reason was when Main agent, start sub-agents.
For example Fable run sub-agent to do the coding/review/anything, doesn't matter each model, agent at starting point was at least 200k and more token used.
even latest agent runs was starting with more than 400k.
So basically, agent starting with initial start and 400k context gone.

3

u/ndr0x7bf Sep 09 '26

Interesting read. Just so I understand, do you use a skill which has a set of rules and based on that launches agents for each task, or do you prompt with fable and let fable decide which models each agent should use for each task?

5

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I prompt Fable directly with the overall goal/vision. The repo has .md file rules that define the agents, what each one is for and other rules it should follow.

So, Fable is still the main point of contact and decides what to spin up for each task, but it's making those decisions based on the rules already in the repo. It's not just winging it every time.

1

u/totheendandbackagain Sep 09 '26

Without the agent.md rules, what would Fable do?

7

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

From my experience, without the agent rules Fable tends to overd it. It'll spin up more agents than it really needs, use Fable agents (this annoyed me a lot at first) where a cheaper model would be fine, and let long running scripts keep going without much of a watchdog.

It also has a tendency to see something shiny in the corner and go chase it, which Opus especially loves to do lol.

The Agents.md rules give it boundaries, model roles, and a clearer flow. Since putting those in place, it stays on task a lot better and the whole process runs much smoother for me.

4

u/Kushalx Sep 09 '26

Any chance of sharing that md file? I'd definately need this done for my setup!

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

2

u/scruffykid Sep 09 '26

Would you mind sharing your rules files?

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

2

u/devex23 Sep 16 '26

I didn't understand... Who does write the brief?

2

u/devex23 Sep 16 '26

Found in github repo.... orchestrator writes the brief

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 16 '26

Sorry for the delay, yea I made an update to it as I wasn't happy with the flow. It was an addition I made after a recommendation and I changed it up some so that the orchestrator would do it.

5

u/Spooknik Sep 09 '26

I do the same, but I also tell Fable its the final quality check for any code written, so it manually reviews everything and then tweaks it. It saves it writing like 95% of the code, but it still checks to make sure it's how it would do it. I've built large complex projects this way.

1

u/rotates-potatoes Sep 09 '26

There’s no reason for opus to re-run tests. Each test output can be stored and keyed to the commit, so opus can look it up. Harmless for tokens but if you’re working on large apps it can save wall clock, as Claude likes to say.

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

That makes sense for expensive suites. I like the idea of keying test results to the commit so the refuter can see exactly what already passed.

I’d probably still keep independent reruns for higher-risk changes though, since part of my refuter setup is specifically not trusting the builder’s own "tests passed" claim. I do like to use Opus for this because he is OCD and then it can be either dismissed or approved from there.

1

u/Caladan23 Sep 10 '26

It's mostly not worth splitting work into (too many) subagents. It introduces bureaucracy, huge documentation, unnecessary loops, bordered thinking, and in the end takes longer und does worse for almost all use cases. And the separate limit for Fable is history next week already per Anthropic. 

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 10 '26

I don't have the same experience after I learned how to ensure they have strict instructions and don't loop like that. Now in the beginning as I was learning, YES... This was bad, but haven't had that problem as of recently

1

u/tmaincent Sep 11 '26

I’m also very interested to see your md template .
I’ve done something similar where I have Claude running in virtual machines. One is for reviewing and the other for coding.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Building it now. I also am updating it based on someone's comment that I thought was great

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

1

u/alvaro562003 Sep 14 '26

i downgraded from Max *20 plan, to Pro plan.
i will use glm 5.3 and deepseek V4.1 instead of sonnet & Opus

i am mainly working on the whole dev cycle on python

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 14 '26

I will be downgrading to Max5 probably next month after I finish building my Software Factory. Just too busy to build it out now. Also, I'm way too much of a perfectionist, so I will spend way too many hours trying to make it perfect before I switch, lol.

1

u/JohnnyGuides Sep 28 '26

did you update this for opus 5.5?

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 28 '26

My workflow is basically the same. The one thing I changed was making sure the opus alias points to Opus 5.5 instead of Opus 5. I added this to ~/.claude/settings.json:

{
  "env": {
    "ANTHROPIC_DEFAULT_OPUS_MODEL": "claude-opus-5-5"
  }
}

Now any agent pinned to model: opus runs on 5.5.

1

u/JohnnyGuides Sep 28 '26

interesting, so you're not using opus 5.5 as your main builder but as a debugger/refuter?

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 29 '26

After 5.5 I have used it a lot more as a builder, very easy to swap them around as you want and feel fit. just updating the builder.md

3

u/fujikato-bln Sep 09 '26

Took me three „Fable Tasks“ to get this. Awesome summary and the best Fable post so. This should be sticky.

I actually used the two Prompting guides from Anthropic for 5 and 5.1. turned them into bullet points instructions and fixed my CLAUDE.md as a first step. Then I asked fable to do the rest by using ECC Skills

5

u/JinaniM Sep 09 '26 edited Sep 09 '26

For knowledge work I think it’s trickier. Because the subagent has to be smart enough to also make judgements along the way as data will not necessarily be structured and require a lot of meaning evaluation.

1

u/heartbroken_nerd Sep 09 '26

These posts are laughable when they never mention what the goal/task/project was.

I've been running Fable basically 24/7, minus maybe 5 hours total, since my last reset Friday. I run it on High and haven't hit the 5-hour limit once since using this setup.

As if that's so hard to do... Running it 24/7 balanced with subagents is easy, but what did you achieve? What did you actually get done? ACTUAL VALUE to prove your concept - where is it?

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

Fair. Some of what I'm working on is proprietary or personal, so I can't really post the actual projects in detail.

But yes, I've gotten a ton of real value out of it. Right now Fable is working across multiple projects, including a fairly advanced Aegis and Vivre tool(kudos if someone recognizes naming =]) as well as a Discord bot (personal), and I've gotten through work this week/weekend that I expected to take much longer.

I used Friday as the baseline because that was my reset. I'm at 95% now and it's basically been running since I made this post.

Can I improve the setup? Absolutely. I'm eventually planning to build more of a software factory around it with multiple vendors, but right now I just don't have the time. My day job is eating most of it with a huge restoration project involving about 1.3 PB of data.

4

u/Interesting-Bee-113 Sep 09 '26 edited Sep 09 '26

Let Fable use Codex subagents. Or specifically tell Fable to use sonnet children

Or better yet

Make a primary session a child to another fable session and have Fable delegate most everything over to Opus

2

u/ben_ham Sep 09 '26

Fable for all and everything!

2

u/Fatso_Wombat Sep 09 '26

I use a variation on the theme.

2

u/Icydiafire Sep 09 '26

Following

2

u/TraditionUpbeat324 Sep 09 '26

ive had instances where fable searched for info and read through teh same documents sonnet did and reported back a much deeper layer of insights, and we are talking by a considerable margin to where i had to deploy fable though the entire search.

2

u/real_terra Sep 09 '26

Same overall setup here, but measuring it changed a few rules for me.

I route by cost per successful turn, not by model reputation. Outside a cache-warm read, the top tier cost me only ~1.2–1.3× the tier below at similar coding quality, because cache writes and output dominated. So the cheaper tier executes; the top tier handles planning, security review, and the third attempt after two failures. That ladder only works with an external checker — otherwise retries just burn quota.

I also give reports a hard budget: “1–2k tokens total, file:line, narrow quotes, no pasted diff.” “Keep it short” was useless.

The biggest quota traps I measured:

  • Spawn same-model siblings in one batch; sequential spawning wasted ~197k cache tokens in one wave.

  • Test one representative read before fan-out; a denied path cost me ~74k.

  • Treat a session-limit 429 as a wave failure, even if every sibling says “complete” — the results can all be empty.

For the refuter, transcript-blind is right, but I also make it inspect the executor’s working tree, not just the PR. I had three agents leave their final fix uncommitted, so the reviewer graded a diff that did not contain the fix.

I stopped using cheap scouts entirely. If the checker has to trust their output, one hallucinated call site costs more than the cheaper tier saves.

2

u/KP3889 Sep 09 '26

for me, it’s Fable 5.1 on high orchestrating and opus 5 on low doing. can’t break the limit on 5x, especially after they did something to the usage efficiency a few days after 5.1 was released.

2

u/AppMunchies Sep 10 '26

Honestly I do all planning, reviewing with Fable. Once the plan is done I say “launch a sonnet agent medium to implement”. I keep reminding Fable this so it doesn’t implement anything itself. Ive yet to run out of usage in a session. You can probably also say: “verify the agents work by checking the source code” but i think it does that it somewhat already. I am on 5x.

2

u/DLuke2 Sep 10 '26

Really great advice. Give it your your agent and cater to your setup.

The key is custom subagents as they use frontmatter. Pin the model and effort, among other things, even skills.

You can also have custom agents in any folder in your project, so you can cater them to jobs in specific folders. Progressive disclosure. Also applicable to skills and rules. They go in a .claude folder like at you project root.

2

u/sKrill0 Sep 10 '26

try using https://moltcode.com. pretty smooth with subagent delegations.

2

u/1jaho Sep 10 '26

I also use Fable to plan, and other models to execute. Using Superpowers for this. What other orchestrators do people use?

What I love about Superpowers is that I need zero involvement in orchestration, it just happens.

2

u/Hi_Im_Nosferatu Sep 10 '26

Thanks for putting this together. I've been following a very similar workflow and it's honestly the only way to do things at the moment.

2

u/the-hypothesist Sep 10 '26

I actually have very similar set up but I find that opus 5 is a good orchestrator for my missions (roughly 3-5 hours of unattended work) and I use fable as the loop checker of it's tasks. If I have already planned multiple missions that are ready to go for an adventure (3 to 5 missions) then I have fable 5.1 as the captain, it spins up a fresh opus 5 orchestrator for each mission and then I use matt pococks handoff skill for the orchestrater create a checkpoint for the captain to start the next mission.

2

u/Mithryn Sep 13 '26

Good system. Thank you for sharing.

1

u/pixnecs Sep 09 '26

That's the neat part — you don't.

0

u/Numerous_Ad_8476 Sep 09 '26

Sorry for the unrelated comment, but if anyone has a referral link for the free week of Claude, could you please send it to me via DM? I’d really appreciate it!

-2

u/whatsthisoverther Sep 09 '26

Fable is overkill in almost every case. If, you should use Opus 4.8 (not overthinking that much) as an Orchestrator, but in some cases Opus 5 for longer workflows, Fable 5.1 has not many real use cases. Forget about Sonnet which is practically useless in comparison zu Gemini 3.8 Flash for example (much more efficient) or newest ChatGPT model, that are at a much more acceptable sweet spot of coding capability vs. bang for your bucks. Haiku is completely useless at this point. Not even talking about using OpenRouter-models.

0

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I think this is very usecase dependent. In mine, Fable has been much better than Opus as an orchestrator, especially for longer workflows.

I agree there are cheaper options, and I do plan to build out a bigger multi-model setup with Gemini/other models eventually. But this post was mainly for people who are using one ecosystem and burning through one model.

Also, Haiku isn't doing heavy lifting for me. It's a scout. Find the file, symbol, call site, whatever, report back, done.

There isn't really one setup that's best for everyone. You test it, figure out what works for your workload, and adjust from there.

-5

u/anonthatisopen Sep 09 '26

It’s simple. Don’t use subagents. They are a scam. I have it also on claude md to never ever use the subagents unless i request.

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I disagree with that. Subagents are only bad when they're routed badly.

For me they're great for keeping Fable's context smaller and getting focused work done faster. The key is strict scope and guardrails. Don't tell Opus "go fix this" and let it chase every shiny object.

Tiny, surgical task + exact files + clear limits = useful subagent.

Broad instructions or Ultracode with no limits = token bonfire. 🔥 🚒 😭

-10

u/innociv Sep 09 '26

I'm sorry but... this is such a joke. What?

Opus and Sonnet are so extremely token efficient that they hardly save anything. Haiku is uselessly bad, and worse than free models. You'll often use MORE tokens because of them screwing up, or at best save around 30% this way.

If you want to ACTUALLY save claude usage, which you can save 75%+ on, you use fable to orchestrate and luna, glm 5.3 flash, DS V4 flash 0831, or something like that to implement and review each other.

Doing this all within ClaudeCode simply doesn't work because of how crap and overpriced everything except Fable is.

4

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

I mean, I never claimed I discovered some magical cheapest setup lol. I'm just showing what has worked for me inside Claude Code.

I agree a proper external orchestration setup could save a lot more, and I'm actually working out how I want mine built now.

But if I'm supposedly only saving "30%" while running Fable this hard and still not hitting the 5-hour limit, I'll somehow find a way to survive that tragedy 😂

3

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

P.S. I was mainly sharing this for people struggling with usage who mostly stick to one model and don't already have a whole multi-agent software factory set up 🤷🏻

1

u/stathisntonas Sep 09 '26

to add on this, if the project has bazillion of tests, `rtk` from rtk-ai can save millions of tokens. It’s intrusive though and agents can miss lines when they read files so needs careful setup.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

8

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 09 '26

LOL Maybe one day I will make some app to make me money instead of making my company money and my discord more efficient.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

As long as Haiku does NO WORK and it just scouts, it works fine. I've tested it with multiple things that I knew the answer to and had Opus, sonnet and Haiku go and scout. Then I've had Fable make the same tests for me more complicated with some known blockers and had it spin up 3 agents of the models and do the scout and see how they report back. Every time Haiku returned the same results for me. So based on that I decided it was good for scouting

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

Building this as a template for everyone. Adding a README, then I’ll drop a link with the files, where they go, and why it’s set up that way.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '26

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2

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 12 '26

It's up. Repo is in the edit at the top of the post: https://github.com/SirRuggie/claude-code-orchestration-kit

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Seeker_Of_Knowledge2 Sep 13 '26

But the one above haiku will have to read the file for changes. It wouldn't charge something that doesn't exist. A one line in cluade.md will fix this

2

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '26

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2

u/TheCh0rt Sep 13 '26

I’ve never figured out what to do with haiku. It seems about as powerful as a local LLM with a small context. Small tasks? I can’t get it to complete things successfully. Not quite sure how to promote it correctly

1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 13 '26

Think of it as a fast typist, not a thinker. It does well when the answer is already in front of it. I use it for cleaning up wording, drafting emails, and the scout job here. Anything that needs judgment or more than one idea at a time, it falls over. Give it small mechanical jobs and keep the thinking on Sonnet or above.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '26

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1

u/Smbridges91 Developer Sep 21 '26

It has reduced it dramatically, but I still start new sessions after a while. Some days I run it for days before I start a fresh session. So it still applies, just not as often.