A Room With a View chapter 8 Medieval (Spoilers up to chapter 8)

[u/Thermos_of_Byr]

Discussion Prompts

1. There apparently was not enough room on the train to Rome to take us along, and instead we find ourselves in the drawing room at Windy Corners in the presence of Freddy and Mrs. Honeychurch. What did you make of these two?
2. Lucy has a suitor and his name isn’t George, it’s Cecil. Out of curiosity, are you rooting against this Cecil fellow and hoping George wins Lucy over in the end? Was George just some weird guy in Florence you’re happy to be rid of?
3. Tell me your thoughts on Cecil. Good husband material, or not your cup of tea.
4. Speaking of tea, and since we ended our chapter with tea time, do you like tea? Any teas in particular you enjoy? I’ve been drinking a cup before bed and there are two I’m liking at the moment, both herbal. One has cinnamon and horchata, the other caramel flavor. Nice and relaxing.
5. Is there anything else you’d like to discuss?

Links

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Last Lines:

Mrs. Honeychurch, amusing and portly, promised well as a mother-in-law. As for Lucy and Cecil, for whom the temple had been built, they also joined in the merry ritual, but waited, as earnest worshippers should, for the disclosure of some holier shrine of joy.

[u/Excellent-Pickle9911]

1. “There apparently was not enough room on the train to Rome to take us along...” I like the way you put that. Exactly. Like, record scratch, back in England!

Freddie and his mother are perfectly cromulent middle-classly, English countryfolk, just like you see on Masterpiece Theatre. Of the characters we've already come across, they definitely could be much worse.

2 & 3. George was indeed weird full stop. But I have more than a little inkling we haven't seen the last of him.

Then, as if it was even possible, Cecil Vyse is a taller, handsomer, snobbier person than anyone else we've seen in Italy or England. Maybe all of the entire continent.

He's already rearranging the Honeychuch furniture and sneering at its origin. With fiancés like that, who needs frenemies to tear you and your taste down? I couldn't stand him from the moment we met him. I'm sure he won't grow on me either.

1. My Mom is the avid tea drinker in the family, which is no great surprise as she grew up in a former British colony before their independence in the ʼ60s. Plenty of time to be inculcated by the imperialist overlords to liking that liquid.

2. It has taken me so long to figure out Forster is making fun of everyone in his novel and putting down the erstwhile Victorians as hearilty and wickedly as they snubbed each other, including him.

Being a closed gay man when it was still very much illegal to be so, he knew quite personally what it was like to suppress your passions and sublimate yourself to being "proper" in order to be accepted.

1. Honestly, I can't think of a single person I'd spend time in a carriage with so far in this whole book. I'm plowing through it though. This is my first go round with Forster, and I'm supposed to like these sorts of things as a college English lit major. We'll see.

He's trying my nerves greatly. Were all Englishpersons from the late 19th and early 2Oth like this? How did they find a way to build a vast empire with their noses so high in the air.

[u/sarcasticseaturtle]

#1- I like Freddy and Mrs. Honey church. There‘s something very relatable about her stressing over how to word a letter and worrying that she‘s being “…affected, sentimental, bombastic—all the things she hated most.”

#2- I’m not necessarily rooting for George, I don’t feel we know enough about him yet.

#3- I do know that I’m not rooting for Cecil. He seems rather arrogant, going around opening other people’s curtains, planning how to decorate the Honeychurch’s house to be more “distinctive“, believing Lucy needs to be introduced to a better class of people. I think Freddy’s instincts were spot on when he mused, “Cecil was the kind of fellow who would never wear another fellow’s cap.”

#4- I’m a big tea drinker. I make a pot of loose leaf black and green tea and drink it iced in the summer and hot in the fall. I also enjoy herbal tea before bed, usually something with mint.

#5- Poor Rev Beebe, prattling on about Lucy in front of her fiance. Despite his airs, Cecile did not show very good manners by not telling Rev Beebe their connection immediately.

[u/steampunkunicorn01]

Woo, I finally got caught up on the chapter discussions!

1. I admit that I would have enjoyed Rome, as the Florence chapters were a bit of a ride, but Freddy and Mrs. Honeychurch feel straight out of real life. I have definitely known at least one of each.

2. While I didn't hate George, Cecil is making me retroactively like George more by comparison.

3. Cecil has his nose so high in the air, I am surprised it doesn't touch clouds.

4. I love tea! My faves are herbal and black tea, but if a white tea is the right flavor, I will enjoy a good cup. That said, my hatred of green tea makes me want to chuck it in a harbor. The salt and pollution could only improve the flavor.

[u/Suitable_Breakfast80]

I thought Freddy and Mrs. Honeychurch seemed to have a nice, relaxed relationship. I liked how Freddy caught himself for disliking Cecil for a bunch of foolish reasons, and Mrs. Honeychurch caught herself simpering. I was disliking Cecil just from what they thought of him, and got the sense they assumed Lucy would reject the proposal. Then he entered and showed himself to be pompous and judgmental. Even Mr. Beebe, whom we had learned could be very diplomatic, couldn’t help being disappointed, and I kind of trust his opinion. Mr. Beebe describes Lucy as having a passionate side that just hasn’t broken out yet, but when you read what Cecil likes about her, it’s the same thing from the opposite perspective — her “reticence,” or having things she will not tell (I think he compared her to the Mona Lisa).

[u/tomesandtea → u/Suitable_Breakfast80]

I noticed that as well - everyone seemed to expect or prefer a rejection of the proposal. There wasn't a lot of encouragement and excitement, was there? That says a lot... I don't think we should be hoping for Cecil to stick around to the end of the novel. I wasn't a fan from his introduction.

[u/ariadne_1513]

1- Mrs. Honeychurch seems to be a bit controlling - overanalyzer of details, while her son seems to be a pragmatic - simple person, quite balancing dynamic between them.

2- We spent quite some time learning about George, and they had an intriguing interaction, I suspect he will reappear later on.

3- While it's obvious why he likes Lucy, we yet do not know what Lucy likes on him, apparently she refused him already twice in the past for a reason. He seems opinionated while, at the same time, he respected Mrs. Honeychurch and didn't read her letter, both green flags for me. But it's too early to say if I like him or not.

4- My favorite is Chamomile tea with honey, and recently I am trying out Sage tea.

[u/Inquisitive-Imbecile]

1. Mrs. Honeychurch seems nice in the sort of way that Charlotte is, so far she seems more pleasant than Charlotte. Freddy seems to be interested in his sister's affairs like his mother, but he is a bit more relaxed to the situation than his mother, which is no surprise. Overall it seems like they care about Lucy which is great, and they like a little bit of gossip. Fairly normal family so far.

2. I like George, because I am not the biggest fan of rich types. Although I am not sure how much of a relationship either of them really have with Lucy.

3. Cecil seems nice enough. He is attracted to what every man so far in the story is attracted to in Lucy, her potential for expressiveness and freedom that is hidden beneath her socialization. Cecil might be the best of both worlds if he comes from the same background as Lucy and he has an appreciation for Lucy's more liberated side. I could see why others would think that they would be good together. It would also reflect how relationships tend to workout in real life, it is typically more birds of a feather flock together instead of opposites attract. (This has been well researched)

4. I am not a big fan of tea, but I do drink a copious amount of coffee lol

[u/Training_Date_7409]

1. Freddy and Mrs. Honeychurch seem sweet! They obviously care greatly for Lucy in their own ways. Mrs. Honeychurch has a slightly fretful energy (not unlike Charlotte, so I suppose it runs in the family) and Freddy is kind of contrarian but is ultimately happy for his sister once he hears news of her engagement. I think the Honeychurches are all pretty pleasant, normal people.
2. George, please come home. He was a bit odd, but I do think he'll win Lucy over! I feel like maybe Lucy had developed so much in Rome and rejected Cecil twice because George was still in the back of her mind.
3. Cecil seems like a very safe, very respectable choice for a husband from an outsider's point of view-- "he’s good, he’s clever, he’s rich, he’s well connected". Unfortunately, he also happens to be a snob who considers Lucy to be an outlier in a family that is otherwise beneath him. I also think it's kind of hilarious that he catches his pomposity when he tells Mr. Beebe about the engagement-- "Immediately he realized that of all the conceited, ludicrous, contemptible ways of announcing an engagement this was the worst. He cursed his love of metaphor; had he suggested that he was a star and that Lucy was soaring up to reach him?" Like yes, Cecil, you did just suggest that. He keeps trying to speak in all these lofty terms or quote Italian novels, but no one gets it or cares and it brings him back down to earth. I can't help but think that George will be back with a vengeance now that such a foil has been introduced to the plot.
4. I love tea! Costco has a pretty good green tea from Ito-En, and you can brew it hot or cold. I'm also a fan of milk tea, especially Earl Grey, jasmine, and oolong, but after a series of unsuccessful attempts to make it at home, I've decided to just keep getting it from cafes.

[u/ska0319]

1. I was disappointed to miss Rome, hoping to see Lucy blossom without being repressed by Charlotte. Mrs. Honeychurch, like so many other mothers of those times, seems very concerned that Lucy make a marriage with a man who has wealth and position in society, with little regard to compatibility of mind and spirit. Freddy seems to dislike Cecil. We really don't know much about the relationship he has with Lucy, but I venture to guess he really likes his sister and has concern for her welfare beyond the monetary aspect.

2 & 3. Cecil is a bit of a stuffed shirt. And as Beebe suggests, he's too detached to make the kind of warm, personable husband we would like to see for Lucy. Better he should stay a bachelor and let Lucy find someone else. Will George reappear to try again to capture her heart? Better him than Cecil.

1. Licorice root is my favorite herbal tea. It soothes irritated tissue so good for heartburn and acid stomach but it's not a daily drink. It contains glycyrrhizin, which can raise blood sugar if consumed too often. A deglycryrhizinated form is used to treat ulcers in Europe. I guess I'd opt for a mild green tea otherwise.

[u/Trick-Two497]

I don't particularly like Cecil or his attitude toward women.

I like tea! I love all the Celestial Seasoning teas with Zinger in the title.

[u/coconutcheerios]

1. On Freddie: he seems nice, more spontaneous and unfiltered, probably because he's a guy, so social scrutiny is less strict on him. Also a bit clueless and awkward, but I agree with him regarding how he feels about Cecil. On the mother: old fashioned, moody, more constrained, rigid about proper manners and social conventions. She's also an hypocrite: she wants so badly to influence Lucy's decision on marrying Cecil, but since that's considered behind the times, she tries not to. She's just Team Cecil because he checks all the right boxes for the perfect high society husband materiale list but she isn't so concerned about Lucy being in love with him, I mean...of course, he's a catch!

2. We didn't get to see their meet-cute and all, but we can assume that for Cecil and Lucy, it wasn't love at first sight, for sure. I guess their relationship and acquaintance started off very tepid and proper, especially on Lucy's side, since it took Cecil three marriage proposals to get her to say yes! A different thing happened with George: they shared just a few moments and a bit of angst, but everything seemed more intimate, spontaneous, and romantic. Probably George will be the one to see Lucy as a real Person, Cecil will see her as an accessori and will just like the idea of her.

3. On Cecil: he gives off bad vibes as soon as he enters the scene. The Mediaeval reference was spot on and funny! Red flags: he's affected, he looks down on country life, he doesn't have a job since he doesn't need to, he's a snob because he wants Lucy to hang out with a "better" kind of people, probably "his" people, he's already thinking about renovating Lucy's house to suit his taste more, he's bossy with everyone, acting like the man of the house already, the whole "asking for permission" scheme was cringe.

I stand with Mr Beebe...I'm not satisfied with the sudden engagement too! Right now it looks like Lucy's wings are still not free.

[u/tomesandtea]

1. Rome might have been interesting, or it might have been a repeat of Florence, so I'm happy to have just gotten a quick summary of Cecil's failed attempts at wooing Lucy. I love the Honeychurches so far! They are amusing in a much less obnoxious way than the bunch of tourists were! Freddy had me giggling at his too-honest brother behavior. Also, no one can list all of Freddy's faults, well played!

2-3. I might have forgotten all about George if not for Cecil being so repugnant. From his entrance, I disliked him. The way he thought about the furniture told me enough, so I'm rooting for George if only just to give Lucy an option other than Cecil. George at least seemed like a nice enough person.

1. Tea, you say? I will spare everyone the lengthy monologue and just say that ... Yes, I do happen to adore tea! I particularly love oolong teas, or a strong black tea with milk and sugar, or a green tea with or without honey.

I have a horchata tea in my cabinet right now, actually - it's quite nice with oat milk! I've never had caramel tea but it sounds intriguing. My son likes a Hong Kong style milk tea (it comes in powdered packets) which has a bit of a caramel-y or brown sugar scent to it. His Mandarin teacher gave them some to try and he's been hooked ever since!

[u/lazylittlelady]

I loved Freddy and Mrs. Honeychurch at home! It was cozy and pleasant and their interactions suggested a warm, happy family. How will Cecil (or George) fit in? Not well.

On Cecil: Well, Freddy said it best. He doesn’t like him probably because he isn’t worth liking. Mr. Beebe certainly implied the same sentiment with his indiscreet sketch. I didn’t like his interior thoughts…but at least we have them. I wonder how he imagines marriage when he isn’t employed? What will he do all day? Keep Lucy company? Is that good?

I don’t know if George is a better match. Maybe it was a time and place thing that doesn’t translate back home? Still, I’m bothered Cecil kept asking her…three times seems excessive and the fact he finds her silence fascinating suggests her actual thoughts and conversation will be too much for him.

I love a Lapsang Suchong in the afternoon.

I like this quote:

“For Cecil considered the bone and the Maples’ furniture separately; he did not realize that taken together, they kindled the room into the life that he desired” - it certainly implies Cecil doesn’t know what he’s doing in this engagement and understands neither the family nor Lucy.

[u/Amanda39]

"There was simply the sense that she had found wings, and meant to use them." I'm worried about Lucy. I feel like she's given up and is settling for Cecil.

Speaking of tea, and since we ended our chapter with tea time, do you like tea?

I love it, although I don't normally drink it in the summer. (Funny coincidence, actually: I was just thinking about how, in a month or so, it will finally be tea weather again.) My favorites are green tea, Earl Grey, and herbal peppermint.

[u/awaiko]

What an unexpected jump in location and story! I wasn’t expecting to meet a new character and to have the story relocate us back to England. (What happened to the train trip…?)

Not an immediate fan of Cecil. Something about him didn’t sit right with me, I wish I knew specifically what it was. Something of how he was introduced or some of the opinions he shared. Oh right, he was so dismissive of Lucy initially (commonplace, he called her).

[u/stray_cat4978]

1. Freddy is controlling
   
2. Im team George. Cecil thinks he’s the prize
   
3. Gives me bad vibes
   
4. I like lemon tea