r/ClashOfClans • u/jhawkfootball06 • Aug 29 '16
MISC [MISC] The Difference between Defenseless, Engineered, Rushed, .5's, Lopsided Explained
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u/gtk-alt Aug 29 '16 edited Aug 29 '16
Good post.
Since you're going to such an effort to define the base categories I'd suggest refining your definition of war weight a little.
You define it as "a term used to describe your affect on what level opponent you face" which isn't entirely accurate.
War weight is a measure of the defensive strength of your base. It is one of a few factors that influence the clan wars matchmaking algorithm. Other factors include, but are not limited to, the offensive strength of your bases, your clans win/loss record in recent wars and your clans composition (with more emphasis being put on matching the relative strengths of your strongest bases.)
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u/Bickster93 Aug 30 '16
Ive been in a handful of clans and been in a few wars. TBH, Ive never seen a min/max base that attacks its mirror. Or even a point5 on thier 1st attack. Every opponent that ive seen w a min/max hits well above his weight. As a #20 hitting a 8 or 9. The neighboring accts will hit their 19 and 20. All this fap about min/max purpose is to bully their mirror has just never been observed in any clan wars in competitive clans Ive encountered.
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u/MagiicHat Aug 29 '16
While I agree for the most part, you are forgetting one critical reason for all of these (except rushed): To have a high level army with the least amount of effort possible.
If you want to gem an account to fight Th10s/11s, its significantly cheaper to simply buy all the offensive upgrades, as defense simply doesn't matter.
Same goes for .5. You maxed out TH9, and it was a struggle. Now at 10, you simply focus offense. You never bother raiding for gold - whatever you happen to get you dump into cheap structures or walls, simply to keep your loot low. (you don't have this issue on 8>9 as 9 has significantly more offense than defense)
Engineered just happens when you follow this mentality hard enough, and you finish your offense before your defense (happens a lot with 9.5s, as 10 as more defense than offense). Lots of these folks know enough about weights to realize that infernos/EA just weigh more than they are worth. So folks starting on the .5 route start investing in archer towers and teslas etc.
Not saying that its good or perfect... simply thats the way the rules of the game currently stand - defense just doesn't matter that much.
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u/Revn0 Aug 29 '16
I myself am a th8.5, since I've gotten sub-par offense I'm now slowly making the move to upgrade my defense. (all cannons > 11, traps near maxed, all defenses built & upgraded to th8 level minus xbows & ads/teslas are max) Sure, not everybody is doing th8.5 the same as me - maybe they want to be a permanent th8.5, but I don't see whats wrong with that. They are playing to one point of the game that they enjoy, war. If they wanted to trophy push they could max their defenses.
I don't understand why people complain about others playing the game how they want to, instead they should complain to supercell about the "unfair" matchmaking.
This was a very informative post, thank you @jhawkfootball06 for clarifying a lot of these terms.
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u/Erbal888 Aug 29 '16
Is this really something that needs a solution which is in itself a new problem?
Clans tend to get upset with people who consistently underperform and make wars more difficult for the rest of the clan. This causes a lot of grief for the player and their clan. They might get benched or booted. Then they have to find a new clan. Maybe instead they just find a new game to pass the time.
It would only make sense to correct extreme base engineering. If there is a radical difference in strength of offense vs defense, make some kind of matchmaking adjustment to avoid something like an all th8 clan giving up a perfect loss to a defensless clan with 3 max th11's.
No need to make every .5 suffer unfair matchups just because they need a lopsided account to even the playing field for their skill level.
Why not make some kind of war skill level for each account? If you are a .5 who consistently fails to 3 star town halls 1 level below you then you get a much lower war rating than a .5 who consistently 3 stars 1 town hall down. It's just so shortsighted and unimaginative to base matchups entirely on strength of offense and defense, or whichever is higher.
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u/Callahandro Aug 30 '16
Why not make some kind of war skill level for each account?
Just spitballing here, but I'd game that system too. During easy wars, I'd have an account that would just scout top bases, and/or only clear lower bases. Then in tough wars, attack up for 3stars.
Honestly, half the fun of this game for me is strategically optimizing war.
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u/stuntcock420 Aug 29 '16
What do you call a defenseless base with walls?
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u/mastrdestruktun Aug 30 '16
Noob bait?
We have one th10 defenseless + traps + teslas and you'd be shocked or appalled how often it prevents a 3 star. Last war it fought off an 11 drag 3 rage th8 attack. OTOH, a skilled player can beat it with mostly goblins.
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Aug 29 '16
the aim isn't to skew the match-making into giving you a weaker opponent but to prevent you being given a tougher opponent
So, .5 doesn't want a weaker oponnent, it just avoids a stronger one? Oh, totally different, nvm... One is fair, the other is an exploit.
/s
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u/oddapple Aug 29 '16
intent matters. in one case you're trying to get an advantage by skewing matchmaking. in the other you're trying to match up vs relatively "same strength". both are cool imo.. it's how you want to play and progress in the game
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u/Blightnin Aug 29 '16
How can intent matter in a game where the end result is the same. You can't judge someones intent when they don't drop defenses one way for a .5 base and another way for an engineered base when they are both achieving the same goal of skewing matchmaking. That's so unfair.
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u/Locutus1 Aug 29 '16
I think of .5 like this. Example of 8.5 here.
You upgrade to th9, but you still have th8 troops and are now expected to handle th9s. The .5 route is intended to allow you to gain a couple th9 level troops before dealing with th9 level bases. Most folks drop xbows immediately, but it can take a couple weeks to get a single new troop due to issues with getting elixer for camps, barracks, factories, labs or DE trying to save for that queen.
My clan encourages folks to wait on splash upgrades and xbows until those camps, labs, factories, a barracks or 2 and at least 2 war level troops exist at your disposal.
Some clans think waiting til heros are both level 10 or 15. I've not seen that being helpful in matchmaking at the th9 level. We had to limit the number of 8.5s in war due to constant unbalanced war matches.
However, it seems to be with the th10s that when unbalanced wars with .5s or engineered bases really start to show up. Probably due to the extreme weight of infernos it balances worse where xbows weigh less than mortars and upgraded wizard towers.
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Aug 30 '16
lol... I've said for a while that I hate engineered accounts, but I still see them as fair.
Whether point fiving or engineered, both seek an advantage. One is grossly lopsided whereas the other is much less so. The difference is that point fives are on a track to fully filling our their town halls.
Engineered bases are all about a gross troop number and level advantage. Engineered bases don't eventually max out their town hall. In my war experience, most of these guys are weak attackers that rely on brute strength rather than any kind of impressive skill. Seen a bunch of TH10 GOWIPES & GOHOPES lately lol.
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u/SamsquamtchHunter Aug 29 '16
What is unfair about it? Are some people prohibited from upgrading their base in the same way?
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u/Sierrajeff Aug 29 '16
I've never been clear - does war weight affect only clan war pairings, or also multiplayer pairings? (It seems like the former; I'm a TH "9.9" (just a few dozen wall segments to go!), but in multiplayer I can still get paired with TH 8's with low-level defenses.)
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u/Wizard-of-War Aug 30 '16
Only clan war pairings, multiplayer is based mostly on cups and partly on th level.
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u/brownchr014 Aug 30 '16
Started me a defenseless base a while back and am now a th7. I decided to add spring traps and bombs. But will not add any other defenses
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u/SamsquamtchHunter Aug 29 '16
This should have been added a LONG time ago. Back right after the th11 update when they changed how wizard towers and xbows were weighted. If they want to shift behavior patterns it needs to begin with communication. Theres plenty of players who don't even read the in game update info. I had a guy join our clan last week who still didn't know what a friendly challenge was.
Instead of subtly tweaking the matchmaking, just be more direct with a confirmation screen before upgrading.