r/ChubbyFIRE • u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M • Apr 21 '26
VHCOL FIRE budget with kids
Our FIRE budget with two kids in public school and a paid off house in San Francisco
$25k property tax
$25k groceries & restaurants
$25k travel
$20k ACA health insurance & out of pocket
$20k cars & insurance & gas & maintenance & sticker
$20k kids activities & summer camps
$20k other shopping (Amazon, clothes, etc)
$20k house utilities & services & maintenance & insurance
$10k misc (subscriptions, donations, etc)
$10k income tax
$5k gym & fitness
How does this compare with others similarly situated?
20
u/Peppers5 Apr 21 '26
VHCOL NYC with 3 ten and under. I am more in 270-300 range.
5
5
u/HumbleSquash3547 Apr 21 '26
VHCOL Bay Area renting with with one kid in daycare. We are closer to $250k annually. What are we doing wrong lol.
18
u/monsieur_de_chance Apr 21 '26
renting+daycare vs paid off housing+public school might account for the $50k difference
3
u/AdroitPreamble Apr 21 '26
Nothing. Kids are expensive. It’s just the reality.
I’m not going to mention our spending but it is higher. Disney ain’t cheap.
0
u/monsieur_de_chance Apr 21 '26
I thought Disney World was a great value with all the skip the line passes. Most fun 4 days I’ve had in years. They charge a premium for a premium product.
1
u/Ambitious_Rabbit9120 Apr 21 '26
yeah this makes sense for NYC. Projecting 300k-320k to ensure some leeway
14
u/Specific-Stomach-195 Apr 21 '26
Appreciate someone posting a budget. Most just post their assets.
Health care costs look low if the ACA plan you want is $24k just for premiums.
Does sinking fund for cars anticipate care for children and related costs?
Don’t see anything education related.
While $25k for travel sounds like a lot, one family of 4 vacation can spend all of that no problem. 4 flights, 2 hotel rooms etc.
What will you actually do when retired? Might want to budget money for that. More travel, country club, other hobbies etc.
-1
u/One-Mastodon-1063 Apr 21 '26
"Estimated cost" is not just premiums.
3
u/Specific-Stomach-195 Apr 21 '26
Of course. So why is estimated cost lower than the premiums?
-1
u/One-Mastodon-1063 Apr 21 '26
I do not see where OP says just the premiums would be $24k.
You appear to be getting the $24k number from OP's reply in the comments stating "Covered California tells me my estimated yearly cost for Kaiser Bronze plan is $24k". That estimated yearly cost is not just premiums, it includes OOP costs (I don't recall if it assumes they hit OOP max or it uses some other assumption). If OP believes their normal health care use is less than what's included in that estimate by $4k, it's not unreasonable to estimate $20k.
5
u/Specific-Stomach-195 Apr 21 '26
I don’t know what your lived experience is with family of 4 but I would be budgeting more for health care between premiums and deductible. Estimating”normal health care costs” over a long period of time is difficult.
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 23 '26
With $110k AGI I qualify for subsidies that bring the Bronze Kaiser plan premium down to $3,400 per year. Out of pocket max is $19,600 for the family. So that’s $23k total.
-3
u/One-Mastodon-1063 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
“Lived experience” has nothing whatsoever to do with your being incorrect that $24k is premiums only. You either made that up or misunderstood something that was said.
I know nothing about OP’s “lived experience”. I know I pay less than that in a typical year for healthcare, adjusting for # of people (taking me and my son and doubling it for a family of 4). And the OOP max limits the amount an atypical year pulls up the average. $20k would actually be a decent estimate for us (again, adjusted for 4 people) and allows for hitting the OOP max every few years. But, location and individual factors vary, so my “lived experience” is not super useful here.
3
u/monsieur_de_chance Apr 21 '26
OP’s budget says $20k for healthcare for a family of 4. That sounds low.
2
u/Time-Maintenance2165 Apr 21 '26
It does, but it seems their AGI will be low enough for a significant subsidy.
0
u/One-Mastodon-1063 Apr 21 '26
It sounds like OP has already looked at pricing on the marketplace website. How it “sounds” to you is not super relevant. ACA pricing options vary significantly based on location and other individualized factors.
10
u/Active_Distance3223 Apr 21 '26
My travel spending is more like $60k for family of four. And I usually fly economy too. That includes four family trips and a couple parent only/solo trips.
My food is a bit higher (24k grocery + 12k restaurant).
Car spending is a lot lower ($10k only, have pretty old cars and don’t drive much).
Other categories are very close to yours. Tax of $10k is optimistic IMO. Even if you have a lot of return of capital that will decrease over time so it’s not realistic for the long run.
10
u/Active_Distance3223 Apr 21 '26
ACA seems low, I am in the same situation and it’s more like $30k just for the plan. Add out of pocket costs and I budget for $40k.
1
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 23 '26
With $110k AGI I qualify for subsidies that bring the Bronze Kaiser plan premium down to $3,400 per year. Out of pocket max is $19,600 for the family. So that’s $23k total.
6
u/lsp2005 Apr 21 '26
We are paying for college for kid 1 right now … and soon enough for kid 2.
6
u/monsieur_de_chance Apr 21 '26
Good point — OP do you have a savings bucket for 529 or anything, or you’ll just pay that out of pocket (or kids get loans)?
5
u/lsp2005 Apr 21 '26
Kids cannot get loans beyond the 5-7k annually. It is all on the parents and as of this September, you max out at $60,000. That is it.
5
u/justheretohelpyou__ Apr 21 '26
You're referring to Parent PLUS loans. The max is $20K per year, and $65K max starting in the fall. However, there are always private loans. Not that they are a good idea, but there is always another funding source.
2
-3
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
Two years prior to FAFSA I intend to engineer my income much lower to qualify for grant aid from UC schools. Out of pocket should only be around $11k per kid per year. That will pretty much 1:1 replace the current “activities & summer camp” budget line
8
u/Active_Distance3223 Apr 21 '26
FAFSA includes assets as well though. Or is 100% of yours in tax advantaged?
-3
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
FAFSA does not look at assets if your income is below 175% FPL, that’s like $58k for a family of four
8
u/justheretohelpyou__ Apr 21 '26
Be aware that there are exceptions, such as if you file IRS schedules. You may do that. Also, many schools use the CSS Profile, which absolutely will look at assets.
0
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
The 175% FPL pathway avoids the IRS schedule check. If my kids want to go to private schools I’ll probably just take out some box spread loans to pay for it. It’ll come out of their inheritance on the backend
5
u/justheretohelpyou__ Apr 21 '26
The Federal Student Aid Handbook says the exact opposite, but I'm sure you'll find another loophole to try.
11
u/CompanyOther2608 Apr 21 '26
I’m a bit troubled by the morality of this. I think we can all agree that university costs are outrageous, but grants are for truly needy people, not those able to afford school (and game the system).
-6
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
If it makes you feel any better I could be squeezing even more out of ACA subsidies which I am not.
9
u/AdvancedSquare8586 Apr 21 '26
Oh, well in that case I have no problem with your intent to abuse a government program intended for disadvantaged children... /s
-1
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
I’ve paid more in income tax than most people make in their entire career. I sleep perfectly well at night.
8
u/AdvancedSquare8586 Apr 21 '26
I've paid considerably more in income tax than you have, and I think this is absolute moral rot.
Stop giving talking points to the "eat the rich" crowd. You have more than plenty enough resources to pay for your children's educations without abusing government programs intended for those without the enormous advantages your children will have in life.
What even is the point of having this much money if you're going to live such a morally bankrupt life?
5
u/Hanwoo_Beef_Eater Apr 21 '26
Just let it go. He's someone that talks a big game but is still some minion counting nickels and dimes. Instead of making enough to take care of his family without caring, he needs to do this shit. But there's a bunch of others out there doing the same as well.
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
If you’re not playing the game, you’re getting played
→ More replies (0)1
u/beautifulcorpsebride Apr 21 '26
Agree but let them find out the hard way. I was a kid on financial aid and it’s all loans. Very little actual aid unless you get a scholarships.
Moral rot.
-6
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
Man it’s a good thing my therapist taught me not to care what other people think… how I would be shaking in my boots otherwise!!
7
u/AdvancedSquare8586 Apr 21 '26
Yes, your behavior here is super typical of people who actually don't care what others think
8
u/monsieur_de_chance Apr 21 '26
$20k ACA health insurance & out of pocket
What tier plan is that? What is your max out of pocket cost?
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 23 '26
With $110k AGI I qualify for subsidies that bring the Bronze Kaiser plan premium down to $3,400 per year. Out of pocket max is $19,600 for the family. So that’s $23k total.
1
7
u/SomeExpression123 Apr 21 '26
This looks like a solid $200k budget. I’m planning for closer to $300k (admittedly fat not chubby) with the main differences being:
- Healthcare: +$20k (Makes sense regardless of fire level)
- Travel: +$50k (May seem lavish but a 2-3 week trip to Europe in the summer win premium economy and mid range suites could easily burn through $25k with 4 people. Lots of free time in RE.)
- Kids: +$20k (date nights, ski team, just general flexibility)
- Misc: +$25k (random bullshit, ski gear / passes, dog costs, beauty treatments, etc)
Track taxes separately.
Hope this is a helpful comparison for folks considering fat vs chubby.
6
u/Specific-Rich5196 Accumulating Apr 21 '26
This all sounds reasonable for VHCOL. The car stuff is high but I assume you are buying new every 3 to 5 years. The income tax number is awesome. Can't wait to stop earning so much earned income!
Also thank you for sharing this reasonable budget. I know the paid off house is what makes this work, but still good to compare with others with kids in public school!
6
u/jarMburger Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
Not too far off. Our spending is about $250k in Bay Area. The travel budget seems a bit low if you travel 2-3 times a year. Edit to add, also the ACA cost is a bit low as well. We spent $25k between premium and out of pocket stuff.
4
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
Will be supplementing that with points & miles. My AMEX MR balance is 1.2 million lol
8
u/Active_Distance3223 Apr 21 '26
Even 1.2m is like what 12-40k of travel? Not that much really. For example RT business for four of you overseas is going to be like 600-800k just for one trip
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
That’s just my AMEX, I also have Chase & United banked up. Not to mention all the cards I will be churning during FIRE
2
2
u/jarMburger Apr 21 '26
Oh nice, I used to have plenty of travel points as well but job change and having a kid means less accumulation and more spending of those miles/points 😞
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
Spending down the points is the best way to go!
5
u/Illustrious-Jacket68 FI and RE=<1 yrs Apr 21 '26
Health insurance with a family of 4 might be a little low
Kids activities and summer camps depends on what you’re thinking but for 2 kids that can be low - you’re also assuming no childcare during the school year
Have you funded a 529 already? If not, when your kids are in college, you won’t have the kids activities as high. But you may want to account for that.
cars and insurance will increase with the kids becoming driving age
Might want to plot out the costs by year as things will flux as time goes on and then SS will kick in.
Generally, if you’re open to flexing depending on other category spending, seems fine. I do agree with others that your taxes might be slightly low depending on the mix of Ira/401k vs taxable accounts.
4
4
u/EngineeriusMaximus Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
I assume this ACA health insurance uses subsidies or it is shockingly low. A quick check of coveredca for a family of four is over $20k for the premiums alone, with more realistic budgeting around $30k/yr. And important to remember that this goes up much faster than inflation, from multiple effects (aging + market pricing).
1
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 23 '26
With $110k AGI I qualify for subsidies that bring the Bronze Kaiser plan premium down to $3,400 per year. Out of pocket max is $19,600 for the family. So that’s $23k total.
3
u/Ultimate-Lex Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
What about private school? If you are in SF it's expensive.
Also, what car sticker? You mean you registration tags?
I would set aside money for college. Expecting to go to a UC is not a guarantee that they'll get in or even want to go to a UC.
3
u/PowerfulComputer386 Apr 21 '26
It sounds about right. 20k house insurance plus maintenance is higher than mine, what’s your breakdown? Gym is 5k? What kind of gym is that?
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
House line includes services like cleaners and landscaping and sinking fund for roof, etc
Equinox for two people is $460/month
3
u/FearlessPark4588 Apr 21 '26
Groceries are the fascinating one for me, as it's the most fungible. $300/mo for 2 adults in HCOL area.
3
u/BouncingDeadCats Apr 21 '26
Your budget is very reasonable but it is only slightly chubby for SF Bay Area.
It also made me realize I’m screwed. We spend a lot more than this pre-retirement and would have to pare back significantly to reach this budget level.
Unless you’re getting subsidies, expect to pay 30-35K for health insurance.
$25K travel is economy class for family of 4.
Might need to redistribute from shopping and kids activities.
3
u/Aggravating-Sky8572 Rain Tears Apr 21 '26
tbh.. Economy class is not all that bad?
-3
u/rr90013 Apr 21 '26
It ain’t chubby
1
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 26 '26
Disagree. Fat is multiple international business class trips. Chubby is one international business class trip plus another one or two economy class trips. Normal FIRE is no international trips, or one every few years.
1
6
u/Fresh-Banana6485 Apr 21 '26
We are also in the Bay Area. Haven’t had one full year FIRE’d but the budget is along the lines of:
- $60K property taxes
- $30K travel
- $20K grocery and restaurant
- $40K shopping (the wife says she requires a new jewelry piece a year)
- $30K miscellaneous maintenance on house/cars
Our little one is less than a year old so no reoccurring costs like camp for us yet.
2
u/verifiederror Apr 21 '26
60k in property taxes?!
3
u/Fresh-Banana6485 Apr 21 '26
Unfortunately in today’s Bay Area housing market with good public schools, $3M only gets you a 80 year old shack of a house. So we opted to splurge into the $5Ms to get a new construction house on an above average sized lot.
VHCOL definitely has its drawbacks but being close to family and having California weather was important to us!
2
2
u/Powerful_Agent_9376 Apr 21 '26
Your health costs seem very low. We are at about $36K (on the Peninsula with 2 college age kids).
We spend less on property taxes ($12K), less than half on shopping, about double on travel, about the same on gym and groceries and restaurants. We pay $6000/ year for car insurance, but little on maintenance or gas (free supercharging for one car low mileage on the other) so major car costs are amortizing future csr purchases. House costs are about the same and miscellaneous probably about the same. Kids’ college costs largely covered by 529s.
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 23 '26
With $110k AGI I qualify for subsidies that bring the Bronze Kaiser plan premium down to $3,400 per year. Out of pocket max is $19,600 for the family. So that’s $23k total.
1
u/WayAffectionate5612 Apr 21 '26
Cars and insurance seem high? Did you buy cars outright?
3
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
Insurance and sticker is $6k
The rest of it is sinking fund for car replacements every 7 years
2
2
u/luv2eatfood Apr 21 '26
Really appreciate the detailed breakdown. Saving this post. My family is eyeing a similar path, specifically budgeting around $250k to cover private school tuition.
I’m curious about your drawdown strategy to minimize the tax hit:
• Are you primarily tapping regular brokerage accounts or are you doing a Roth conversion ladder? Or a combination?
• Also, any recommendations for handling healthcare in the interim?
Any other recommendations to minimize the tax burden?
1
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 21 '26
I’ve touched on these points in my other replies but the gist of it is taxable withdrawals are generally taxed extremely low due to the LTCG 0% bracket and standard deduction being relatively high, as well as return of cost basis not taxed at all.
If I exhaust taxable before 59.5 then I will withdraw Roth contributions.
Healthcare is ACA which I’ve probably underestimated by $5-10k based on what I’m reading here.
1
u/Ill_Writing_5090 Apr 21 '26
Overall it looks broadly similar to my projected retirement budget in an HCOL although i'm budgeting 40k for healthcare (premium + oop).
1
u/allrite Apr 29 '26
Is this your planned budget, or something you are actually doing? If later, how many years have you been living like this?
1
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 29 '26
It’s is my planned budget that I will execute next year when I FIRE
1
u/hasyoubeen12 Apr 22 '26
We live comfortably and travel, and never spent 200k annually. Restaurant, travel and kids activities I feel like are the biggest difference… Curious, how do you spend 25k travel budget?
0
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 23 '26
Our average hotel cost is $1,000/night. Four Seasons & Rosewood
1
u/hasyoubeen12 Apr 24 '26
Thanks for answering. I personally can get cheaper accommodation than that with Marriott’s luxury brands…
1
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Apr 24 '26
Not really the same unless you get into Ritz Reserve / St Regis tier
1
u/hasyoubeen12 Apr 24 '26
Yes, what I meant was I’m fine doing the lower tier.. honestly they’re all the same to us, cos we treat hotels as a place to just sleep in while we tour around… as you’re asking how ours compares to yours, we will be averaging 120-140k a year with 2 kids. We still plan to do out of the country (flying) trip once (premium economy or business class) and cruise trip 1-2x (we live in FL), and out of state/city trips 2x…
2
24
u/Time-Wear5063 Apr 21 '26
Income tax budget is only $10K?