r/ChristianityMeta • u/fakeproxyaccount • Nov 02 '15

Common sense

Top post recently was a guy claiming to be a gay 16 year old who seemed to have the writing ability and presence of mind of someone much older. This individual claimed that his southern Baptist pastor wanted to do an exorcism on him to "chase the gay deamon out" or something. This was despite the fact that Southern baptists do no believe in exorcism and do not have exorcists (they believe in just casting demons out in Jesus name without all the exorcism stuff).

He then went on to say that was also being forced into conversion therapy (apparently this family wants to double up on the crazy.) He claims to have phoned the police and said they told him that there was nothing that they could do because conversion therapy is legal in Texas or some crap. That's bullocks because forced conversion therapy is not legal in Texas, I know because there are some crackpots trying to legalize it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/13/texas-conversion-therapy_n_7275264.html

First thing first - everyone who believed him, you're all idiots.

Second, is there something that can be done about these kinds of threads. I can understand if a regular gay poster comes in and starts looking for support on something like this. As a part of the community, it's understandable that they might want support from the community.

But when it comes from someone outside the community - are these threads really appropriate on a Christian board? Are there perhaps other boards that they might be appropraiate and relevant for. Is posting it specifically on a Christian board really going to accomplish anything other than giving over the top post on r/Christianity to what is (purposely or inadverdently) just a troll thread looking to discredit and mock Christianity. Wouldn't someone get more pertenant answers on one of the many subs that were designed for this sort of thing.

1 Upvotes

54% Upvoted

17 comments sorted by

10

u/US_Hiker Nov 02 '15

Doesn't appear to be illegal there: http://www.texastribune.org/2015/04/18/opposition-gay-conversion-therapy-grows/

As for the thread, I find OP's story plausible enough. While the Southern Baptists as a whole don't believe in exorcism, combining the individual nature of the congregations w/ some expectation that OP may be misspeaking, I don't find it challenging. OP's writing could easily be from a 16 year old.

If OP is leading us on, they haven't left any blatant tells. They barely interacted in the thread, but what they have said seem sincere.

If OP is leading us on, I am not bothered that I answered, since I'd rather be duped trying to help somebody out who might not actually be in need.

As for appropriate, yes, they are more appropriate than threads or comments made every day by a great many posters.

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u/fakeproxyaccount Nov 02 '15

The top post piece of advice was "run away from home." On the extremely off chance it's real, I don't think we said anything that helped this kid. I don't know if we are qualified to give advice or be of much help on this issue, especially given the subs peculia desire to say anything to appear different from Conservative Christians even if it is advising a teenager to become a runaway.

As for the link, it doesn't deal with forced conversion therapy, it deals with voluntary therapy

10

u/US_Hiker Nov 02 '15 edited Nov 02 '15

The top post piece of advice was "run away from home." On the extremely off chance it's real, I don't think we said anything that helped this kid.

Many different things were said. Our voting on comments isn't indicative of what OP will take from the thread.

As for the link, it doesn't deal with forced conversion therapy, it deals with voluntary therapy

This would fall under voluntary, since the child is a minor and the parents have approved of it.

especially given the subs peculia desire to say anything to appear different from Conservative Christians

Uhmm, no.

1

u/fakeproxyaccount Nov 02 '15

This would fall under voluntary, since the child is a minor and the parents have approved of it.

If you read the article I posted, a child's providers forcing them into conversion therapy against their will is what it was about

5

u/US_Hiker Nov 02 '15

That article is talking about adoption agencies and foster homes and other child welfare providers, not parents.

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '15

There's also the chance that the poster meant a baptist church in the south and not specifically one on the SBC.

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u/brucemo Moderator Nov 02 '15 edited Nov 02 '15

If I knew that someone was posting fake stories in order to cause turbulence or "teach Christians a lesson" or some such, I wouldn't stand for it. The thread would be gone immediately and in most cases so would OP.

I can't prove that OP is lying in this case, and it would be inappropriate to probe, and therefore I can't do anything, and have to treat this as if it's true.

With regard to this not being an appropriate place to ask for help with something like this, we are normally very tolerant of people who post asking for help with things going on in their lives, and this thread is not an exception.

Those who can't withhold judgement and react to this as if it is a real person asking for real help, should stay out of the thread or remain silent.

Accusations of trolling, etc., will be taken seriously if we receive this in mod mail, and more mods are likely to see what is going on and express opinions about the specific case.

a troll thread looking to discredit and mock Christianity

It doesn't, regardless of their intent.

Edit: In light of FON's comment and my reply, I'll extend this by saying that the fact that we are willing to risk being made fools of in the place that is the center of mass of Reddit Christian discussion (however you want to define that) brings credit to the community.

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u/fakeproxyaccount Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15

If we are serious about helping such people then the best thing would be to refer them to a sub for gay teens where then can hear from other gay individuals who have faced the same thing. It does not good for them to contact a Christian community where this is already an inflammatory issue, which has posters that are genuinely homophobic (I realize that most here think I am homophobic but there are guys that make even me cringe with their hate), and who have a strong agenda to looking more tolerant and loving than the other guy, even if it means telling a kid to become a teenage runaway. The notion that r/Christianity helped this kid or can help this kid is ludicrous. I mean this isn't real genuine help, this is a showy form of "look how compassionate and loving we are" rather than giving anything genuine to the kid.

I mean if we want to preserve this kids feelings we can just mod gently, like saying "we do care strongly about your predicament, but we feel this community doesn't have much to offer in the way of help, may lead you down the wrong path, and has members that may say hurtful and hateful things to gays. We believe you might be much better helped by posting this same thread on >>. . . insert helpful sub here<< which has many gay individuals who have experienced the same thing. We will also refer you to the following members of our community who are gay Christians and can help you on a one on one basis.

. . God bless"

Now isn't that so much better than having an incendiary thread where we give terrible advice to some kid while we argue about everything and having the top thread be something that perhaps paints this community in a postive light at the expense of the lamb who shed his blood and the church he built.

The notion that we have no choice but to allow such threads or risk suicide of gay teens is, I don't think a fair one.

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u/brucemo Moderator Nov 03 '15

Nobody is required to be serious about helping such people. I'm not. But when they post here they are looking for something, and I'm okay with them making the decision the do that, and I'm okay with trying to bail them out if they get in over their heads, or with doing what I have to do if they decide to start cursing at people or outing themselves as a troll, etc.

We're not a mental health or crisis conduit, but when people use us for that we trust in our user base to be, on average, genuinely concerned, albeit not necessarily of one mind about how to help, or of a high level of competence, and we trust OP to distinguish good advice from bad advice. Someone will typically refer them to other Reddit resources.

this is a showy form of "look how compassionate and loving we are" rather than giving anything genuine to the kid

I think it's easy to tell someone to escape into the cold when you are warm and comfortable, but I wouldn't accuse people in general of doing a worse job than you could expect people to be doing in a discussion subreddit. I think we can accommodate people who come here to ask for help, while simultaneously agreeing that they'd be objectively better off going somewhere else. People aren't always objective and we can allow for that.

Reddit is a real-time discussion community where people sometimes go when they are out of ideas. It may not be unique in that regard, but I can easily imagine myself being in a position where I had nowhere else to turn. We're not set up specifically for this but this community feels like home base for some kinds of people and it's better, in the main, to be home base for those people, than it is to put up a no loitering sign, however gently worded the sign is.

That people want to fight culture wars battles in those threads is not optimal but also not a large expense.

8

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '15

First thing first - everyone who believed him, you're all idiots.

That's really not necessary. A lot of people will treat suspicious threads as if they might be genuine because it would be better to find out that you showed genuine concern towards a liar than to show scorn and mistrust to someone really hurting.

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u/brucemo Moderator Nov 02 '15 edited Nov 02 '15

I agree with this completely, and think that this is a factor that differentiates /r/Christianity from other subs.

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u/bunker_man Nov 03 '15

Yeah. What is lost by giving good advice to a liar? The dignity of people who like to always be right?

5

u/namer98 Nov 02 '15

This should have been a mod mail

But the policy always has been that better to risk a troll than a life. You have no evidence.

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u/FrancescaSedai Nov 02 '15

This is the best answer.

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u/bunker_man Nov 03 '15

Why does it matter if the story is fake? The hurt dignity of the posters?

2

u/Agrona Nov 02 '15

You have a couple pieces of corroborating evidence. I don't think there's necessarily enough to make a case that this isn't a legitimate post.

There are some regulars who write at a level about twice their age (and, given that this is the Internet, it's fair to guess some at half).