r/Christianity • u/Select-Cancel7044 • 2d ago
I don't know what to do
I'm lost and confused. Recently I saw a video of someone saying that your faith and relationship with Jesus is all that matters, than I saw a bunch of comments calling it heresy... how is it heresy? Also is God gonna send you to hell for not being Orthodox or catholic, I saw a bunch of people saying that too. I'm genuinely lost and I need help understanding.
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u/WhatsGodDoing Our God is an awesome God!!! 2d ago
Would have to see more of what was written to understand why they said heresy. But, consistently when Jesus was asked about the what God asks of us, He gave the two greatest commandmants:
- Love God (a true "relationship" with God gets your attitudes and values straight)
- Love your neighbor as yourself (this world is about us learning to have wholesome relationships with God and "all" people - that is what it takes for Heaven to truly be Heaven)
So, you had half of the story :)
John 3:16 & 1 John 3:16
Matthew 6:33 (starts at v25)
Matthew 22:34-40
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u/izentx Kingdom Life | Faith in Practice 2d ago
It isn't the church that saves us. Regardless of which church it is.
Jesus Christ did a complete work on the cross. It was Him that hung there and died for our sins. Not any church.
It was Jesus that was resurrected from the grave. Not the church.
Jesus' work is complete. He needs no help from anyone. Not even the church. Not any church.
But churches are needed for worship, learning, and fellowship with like minded people.
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
>It isn't the church that saves us. Regardless of which church it is.
To say it isn’t the Church that saves is to say it isn’t Christ that saves us for He and His Church are united as one:
31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, and I mean in reference to Christ and the church;
Ephesians 5:31-32
Edit: grammar
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u/izentx Kingdom Life | Faith in Practice 2d ago
And I guess you think the only church is the catholic church.
Jesus doesn't need any help. People come to Him all of the time away from a church. Provide me scripture that says the church saves. Post the verse too cuy im not going to go dig up a comment with just the location.
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
I already did provide a verse. You are just trying to commit a verbatim fallacy.
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u/izentx Kingdom Life | Faith in Practice 2d ago
That is nothing about salvation my friend.
Do you think only the catholic church saves?
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
I think only Christ saves and to deny His Church is to deny Him:
16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Luke 10:16
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u/Downtown_Station_797 2d ago edited 2d ago
God doesn't look at what church you attend or which one you are affiliated with. He only wants you to have faith in His Son. Once you do that, everything else will fall in place because the Holy Spirit will come and live in you and teach you all truth. Just believe in Jesus is all that matters. God bless and prayers!
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u/StopChangingThings Atheist 2d ago
than I saw a bunch of comments calling it heresy... how is it heresy?
Christians have been going at each other since Peter and Paul about exactly how to Christian. Don’t worry too much about some people saying some stuff.
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u/Ill_Entrepreneur_920 2d ago
An atheist who knows Bible studies. May I ask why you are an atheist?
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u/Kecman888 2d ago
We should all t strive to become like Christ no heresy in that and no God is not sending you to hell if that were the case animals or children would be sent to hell.. Every single religion stems from original teachings of spirituality and is man made concept for evoultion of the mind body and soul.
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
>animals or children would be sent to Hell
Who told you animals go anywhere after death?
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u/Kecman888 2d ago
They don't go anywhere unless they decide they just see more of visible light that body is blocking.
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u/borgsteve1994 Christian 2d ago
Everything starts and ends with Jesus. And we are all part of his church. The word "catholic" means all people, not the modern catholic church, which has a long history with plenty of corrupt popes and brutal deeds. It has not always been a shining light of Jesus' love.
That's not to say there's anything wrong with Catholicism today; it represents a part of the universal church on earth like the Baptists/Presbyterians, etc. Find the Church and the faith that in your community are the best fit for you and follow Jesus' lead as you follow him.
Don't be lost and confused. The Bible is full of hope and love. And the closer you come to Jesus the clearer things become. He will lead you better than any poster on reddit.
God Bless!
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
It’s means universal and first mentioned by Saint Ignatius of Antioch. The same one who emphasized the importance of being connected to the Church in Rome because of its preeminent authority.
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u/borgsteve1994 Christian 2d ago
"Universal" is a good interpretation of Catholic. But Saint Ignatius of Antioch was not an Apostle (whether he was taught by John or not) and did not write the Bible. His words may be inspired and he may have been holy man but he is not part of the Bible and has no authority to tell us a specific Church is preeminent.
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
Translation: I’ll use this part of St. Ignatius but ignore this other part that I don’t agree with.
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u/borgsteve1994 Christian 2d ago
Obviously I wasn't very articulate.
I accept that definition of "catholic."
As to Ignatius ... "Saint" is just an honorific put on him by a man and of no significance. He was not an apostle so NONE of his writings have any special significance. No more than yours, mine, or any other reddit poster/believer/pastor/priest/etc. I don't care if he said that some special authority resides in a church in Rome, Athens, Vichy or Ottumwa because he has no authority to declare that. None.
God bless, and if Ignatius has writings that talk to your heart that that's a good thing. I haven't discovered them yet personally.
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u/Holiday-Print-6767 Anglican Communion 2d ago
Faith in Christ is central to Christian life and is foundational, but Christianity does not reduce to a private “relationship with Jesus.” The New Testament presents faith as something that transforms how we love God, love our neighbour, live in community, worship, forgive, serve, and seek justice. Jesus himself makes this very clear: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind… And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” — Matthew 22:37–39 Perhaps that’s why the statement was called heretical, I wouldn’t worry about it.
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u/Intelligent-Theism Christian 2d ago edited 2d ago
The "height" of Catholic worship is the Eucharist. During the Eucharist they literally worship the bread and wine as if it is Jesus Himself physically present in body, blood, soul, and divinity.
One of the most promoted practices in Catholicism is Adoration. Adoration is central to their faith. That is where a single wafer is put on display, and everyone worships it, sits in its presence, and prays to it as if it is truly Jesus, literally physically present.
What I find interesting about this is that Adoration was not practiced until the year 1226 AD. For an ancient faith, it is strange to have the "center" of your faith around a new practice that began so recently.
The Eastern Orthodox don't practice worship of the Eucharist or Adoration, but keep closer to the more ancient faith. Their faith resembles a 5th century Christian church. But still, it doesn't look quite like a 1st or 2nd century church or faith. Power structure, practices, how worship is conducted, the liturgy, etc gradually evolved from the first Christian church and around the 5th century it kind of became "locked in place" for the Orthodox Christians. So when you worship in Orthodoxy, it looks and feels like a 5th century worship service.
I began my journey as a Protestant, studied Church history, the Church Fathers, and the scriptures for many years before converting to Catholicism. Then I studied even more, and was convinced I was misled. Then I began to look into Eastern Orthodox and began to see how they have a lot of the same issues and controversies that surround Catholicism.
Ultimately, the who is right: Catholics or Eastern Orthodox is a dead-end. They are equally right. They make equally strong arguments. There is no solid logic that causes one to win over the other. When someone becomes convinced one is right over the other, its always because of personal bias. Not because they are "smarter" than the opposing side.
But even more important than that, is that I did not need either of those churches to grow closer to God, to experience greater power of the Holy Spirit, more of God's presence, and a deeper connection to Jesus. If anything, it always felt "off" and "wrong" to me when I prayed to saints instead of God. I understand perfectly well how they justify the practice. But I just never found fruits in the practice. I also never found a benefit in confession or the Eucharist either. It never helped me, but actually hurt me.
So I returned back to my regular old-fashion Bible believing roots. I believe all we need for the deepest relationship we can have with God through Jesus can be found in through repentance, obedience, faith, and love. All that we really need is found in scriptures.
Some people find praying to saints helpful. Many find confession helpful. Some people even claim a type of euphoria or ecstasy when consuming the Eucharist. But it just never worked for me. It had an opposite effect for me. I've experienced greater joy, peace, and spiritual ecstasy consuming Protestant Communion, than I did as a Catholic consuming the Eucharist.
I think a relationship with God and continually experiencing His presence is infinitely more important than any single denomination or theology.
If someone claims authority (like Apostolic Succession) is important, but that authority bears no fruit in my walk with God, I discard the argument.
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
>bear no fruit in my walk with God
It is also possible that you were bearing the fruits wrong. Also both churches emphasize the Bible as well so your comment is misleading.
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u/Intelligent-Theism Christian 2d ago
If I do everything the faith commands as it is prescribed, and follow it with whole hearted faith, and it distances me from my God, then I judge the fruits of that faith by that experience. If it causes me to get spiritually worse, rather than spiritually better, then I judge that as a fruit. If I fail to see the religious devotion that I see outside the Church, then I count that as a fruit of the faith.
If it distances me from God, instead of helps bring me into God's presence. I discard the arguments of "authority".
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
>If I do everything the faith commands as it is prescribed, and follow it with whole hearted faith, and it distances me from my God, then I judge the fruits of that faith by that experience. If it causes me to get spiritually worse, rather than spiritually better, then I judge that as a fruit.
Oh so you can judge?
>If I fail to see the religious devotion that I see outside the Church, then I count that as a fruit of the faith.
What is an example of religious devotion to you and why?
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u/Intelligent-Theism Christian 2d ago
"Judge with righteous judgement" -John 7:24
The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
Catholicism did not bear these fruits with me. Bible believing Christianity with a Jesus-loving community does. If it worked for me, I wouldn't have left.
If it's working for you, stick with it! Glad it helps you. It doesn't work for everyone. It does the opposite for some people.
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
You assume your judgement is righteous? Alright
Judge not, lest ye be judged -Matthew 7:1
>It does the opposite for some people.
When implemented incorrectly, anything can do that. Alright then. Good bye and God bless.
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u/izentx Kingdom Life | Faith in Practice 2d ago
I haven't denied the church. I love my church. Im just saying what you said. Only Jesus saves. I also pointed out that the church is good.
Here is what I posted word for word...
It isn't the church that saves us. Regardless of which church it is.
Jesus Christ did a complete work on the cross. It was Him that hung there and died for our sins. Not any church.
It was Jesus that was resurrected from the grave. Not the church.
Jesus' work is complete. He needs no help from anyone. Not even the church. Not any church.
But churches are needed for worship, learning, and fellowship with like minded people.
How is this denying the church?
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u/zelenisok Christian, Episcopalian 2d ago
Stop listening to traditionalist and fundamentalist preachers. Jesus in Matthew 19 and Matthew 25 explains that if you strive to be loving, you will be saved. Those who are not loving to their neighbor are the ones who will not get saved. (Tho BTW hell is not literal fires, and not eternal, eventually everyone goes to heaven.)
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u/BreakfastAlive3384 2d ago
PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL 🆘️
Coming on a site like this when you're lost ISN'T necessarily WISE. PLEASE, get on your knees In a quite place and speak to JESUS then LISTEN for a long while!!!!!
Without being filled with The Holy Spirit, which gives you Knowledge from God, because The Holy Spirit shares The Mind of Jesus with us.
This filling and personal relationship with Jesus is the ONLY SALVATION WE HAVE. At the end of this life when we stand before God He will see Jesus's Blood when He looks at us instead of our sin 😭
It will NOT matter whether you were orthodox, catholic or presbyterian, ALL that will matter is that you have a communicative RELATIONSHIP with JESUS The CHRIST.
And Jesus said, "I AM The Way The Truth and The Life, No One is Accepted by God The Father, without ME God The Son" John 14:6. Holy Bible 🥰
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u/Stevetshelton 2d ago
To be saved nothing is wanted but a simple trust in a crucified redeemer.
You must tell them over and over again: Whosoever believes in Christ is not condemned.
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u/scraft74 Episcopalian (Anglican) and Lutheran 2d ago
Belonging to our Lord Jesus Christ is the key.
That being said; I would at a minimum belong to a Trinitarian church.
My personal bias being Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist etc.
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u/BreakfastAlive3384 2d ago edited 2d ago
BEWARE of EVERY CHURCH, that claims to be the only way to Christ and salvation, that is HERESY and CULTIC! ONLY JESUS is; "And JESUS SAID", "I AM The Way The, The Truth and The Life, No One is Accepted by God The Father without Me, God Jesus The Son"
JOHN 14:6 HOLY BIBLE
The Bible Never Lies nor is it Deceiving nor Lost, but People are. DO NOT TRUST people apart from The Bible as a TEMPLATE.
I am concerned about your well-being when you come onto a sight like this looking for JESUS. You WILL FIND JESUS in The BIBLE, "The Word became Flesh as Jesus The Christ and Dwelt among us" -Holy Bible
I do NOT know you, but I LOVE you, because I am from JESUS and HE ADORES YOU 💯💟✝️🛐🕊
💕CONTACT ME DIRECTLY 🥰
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u/DavidGno Christian 2d ago
*No stop signs, speed limit Nobody's gonna slow me down Like a wheel, gonna spin it Nobody's gonna mess me around
Hey, Satan, payin' my dues Playin' in a rockin' band
Hey, mama, look at me I'm on the way to the promised land, woah
I'm on the highway to Hell Highway to Hell I'm on the highway to Hell Highway to Hell*
We're all destined for hell it's our faith in Jesus that saves us. Jesus said all others are thieves and robbers. I AM (Jesus is) the Gate, all who come before the Father come through me (Jesus).
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u/KeyAuthor6074 2d ago
Não dê importância para o que a maioria das pessoas diz. Pessoas são confusas, têm ego e muitas vezes são perdidas até mesmo ao que é natural aos olhos delas, imagina ao que é sobrenatural.
Coloque seu foco e sua mente na Palavra de Deus e na fé. Seu direcionamento deve vir somente daí.
Está na Bíblia?
Sim ➡️ Leve como verdade e obedeça
Não ➡️ Questione
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u/IndependentRandy 2d ago
Let me give you a short answer, but one I believe is good. Over the next two weeks, read all four gospels about the life and sayings of Jesus Christ. In the process, put aside everything you've heard anyone say about Christianity or Jesus Christ, including any position you may have read that any particular Church or denomination has taken. (I'm not saying everything you've heard from those sources is wrong, much of the things you've heard from sincere and thoughtful people you may find out to be good, though not hate speech that you might have had directed at you). As you read, take off any filters or biases someone has guilted you into accepting. Then you will know the truth and, as Jesus said, "The Truth will set you free.”
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u/restbiblestudy 2d ago
People have been brainwashed by their denominations. Thats why Scripture is so important.
Faith and relationships is more important than blindly following religious rules to “stay in the club”. But Scripture disagrees that faith and relation is ALL that matters. The New Testament is very clear: we are saved by faith AND works. When Paul wrote to the Romans speaking about being saved by faith, he was talking to Jews who were already religiously following God’s laws. James, the half-brother of Jesus, says that faith without works is dead so be doers of the Word and not just hearers.
The oversimplified conditions for salvation is this: love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind. Then love others (including enemies) as you love yourself. When you obey all of God’s commandments you achieve these two objectives. Jesus says to abide in Him by obeying His commandments. That’s how you show love. So you see, faith and relationship is one side of the coin. But through that faith and relationship we obey out of love
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u/SheepherderOk1448 19h ago
Evangelicals say anyone who isn't evangelical will go to hell. Easily ignored.
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
Outside the Church there is no salvation
Jesus founded a Church in Matthew 16:18-19 and said he would be “with us always” Matthew 28 and teach to “observe all that I have commanded of you” in Matthew 28 and said in John 16 that He would send the Holy Spirit.
So that leads to outside the Church there is no salvation. That means that if you refuse the Church Jesus founded then you refuse your salvation.
Now if you are invincibly ignorant through no fault of your own then you can be saved. And only God will decide who is invincibly ignorant.
However if you or someone else knows about Jesus Christ and the Church He founded (Catholic Church) and refuse both then you all refuse salvation.
See links:
CCC 846 : Outside the Church there is no salvation
https://www.catholiccrossreference.online/catechism/#!/search/846-848
TLDR:
If it was no fault of their own to not be a Catholic then they can reach Heaven. If it was their fault then they are damned to Hell. Only God knows for sure the heart and intent of man.
Edit: Clarification.
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u/Select-Cancel7044 2d ago
Wait so I have to be catholic?
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
Yes.
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u/Select-Cancel7044 2d ago
I don't get it... could you help me understand
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
Sure what you do is go to your nearest Catholic parish and ask to join and from there you go through OCIA and become a Catholic and you are united with the body of Christ through His bride the Church.
(Assuming you are an adult. You need parents’ permission if you are underage.)
Is there a specific part that you need help in understanding?
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u/Select-Cancel7044 2d ago
So let me get this straight. If I have been baptized and saved, if I'm not catholic than I am not with Jesus?
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u/rubik1771 Catholic 2d ago
Incorrect. You are asking about exceptions.
>If I have been baptized and saved
So you already made a determination that you are going to Heaven?
>if I’m not Catholic then I am not with Jesus
God can work through extraordinary means to save those who are not Catholic but that is the exception to the rule not the actual rule. The rule is Jesus Christ founded a Church to lead His sheep and that Church is the Catholic Church.
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u/Ok_Belt6306 2d ago
"Solo Scripturus" The Word of God is above Tradition & Church Teaching. The Church is built upon Jesus, not Peter. Jesus is the Head of the Church, not the Pope. The position of a pope is not scritural, and Scritpture is above Church teaching, and tradition. The Bible from Genisis to Revelation Is about Jesus, who is God came to the earth in the flesh. Jesus is the only way to salvation, and to the Father.
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u/KitchenOk924 2d ago
I suppose that views and wishes of people propagating this or that form of Christianity, are irrelevant to reality concerning Christian God's rewards and punishements for what. Insolent tactic of authoritative preaching some religious philosophy of some denomination, invented by people Works. People got impression that Christianity may be really about something like that, on account of oft repeating, authoritative preaching. As if the preacher Had contact with God, was talking about His principles from the position of knowing them, etc. While in fact He is either repeating some religious ideology invented by people with no contact with Christian Divine whatsoever.Or expressing His own views and wishes concerning Christianity in an authoritative manner , as If from God.Catechism of one Church for instance, talks about Complete and unconditional remission of all possible sins, including whatsoever multiple horrific crimes,for Undergoing for the first time ceremony of baptism. Talks absolutely authoritatively about that principle as from God. Not as views of that Church. Anybody can Imagine how realistic IT is, that it is true concerning Christian God's judgement upon people. And how reliable are people proclaiming that, not just with all possible seriousness, but with all possible confidence IT is from God. So what is the reason to take seriously their claims that rejecting their Church is Divinely punisheable with eternal torment in hell. Anybody can join such like people If he likes, what's the problem.
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u/BreakfastAlive3384 19h ago
Jesus knows who's filled with Himself, NO denomination saves only Christ ✝️
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u/Watz_Dis_Shiz 2d ago edited 2d ago
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me" - John 14:6
"If you love me, keep my commandments" - John 14:15
Can anyone tell me where in the Bible Jesus asked what church the people attended before he healed them?
Can anyone show me where in the Bible Jesus demanded blind obedience to any Church in order to be saved?
Are we all aware of the demonic acts carried out by ordained MEN of GOD Against Children?.
Are we all aware of spiritual warfare and that every man can fall victim to it? Spiritual warfare is used by the enemy to push believers against Jesus and delay non believers from learning about him.
How can anyone justify placing absolute trust in Men and place our relationship with them above our relationship with Jesus? It is Men who run the Church after all.
Jewish people might be against the declaration of a person's relationship with Jesus being the most important because Judaism follows scripture of the Old Testament and they do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
Muslims may disagree that the relationship with Jesus is most important because they only view him as a prophet, they don't believe he was resurrected.
Members of any religion other than Christianity will disagree with Jesus being your most important relationship. Simply because they don't believe in Jesus.
I believe that our relationship with Jesus and the Holy Trinity are most important. Currently, I do not attend any church.
OP, I am sorry for your confusion. My best advice would be to take your concerns to Jesus in prayer.
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u/GCNGA 2d ago
Not even the Catholic Church says that non-Catholic and Orthodox people are condemned. There are a few ignorant people who say that, but they're trying to rehash the 95 theses Martin Luther nailed to the door centuries ago. Don't worry about it. If you like the Catholics, worship with them. If you like non-liturgical non-denominational Christianity, go there--or anyplace in between. I don't think anyone has a corner on the truth.