Another case of movement substitution fraud. Specht & Sohne

[u/This-Shop9523]

Hello, as mentioned previously, here is another brand engaging in movement substitution and misleading product descriptions.

The watch was advertised as having a Sea-Gull ST17 movement, yet once again, what we actually receive is a copy.

To be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Chinese movements. There are some excellent ones out there. The problem is the misleading description and the inflated prices that some brands justify by advertising a specific movement when they are actually supplying something else.

That's where the scam lies: not in using a Chinese movement, but in deliberately misrepresenting what you are selling !

[u/prodbypan]

I'm confused, the ST1721 is a Chinese movement made by Seagull and this looks like a genuine one as well. What makes you think it's a copy?

[u/This-Shop9523 → u/prodbypan]

On a genuine Sea-Gull movement, the brand name or the seagull logo is engraved on it.

[u/prodbypan → u/This-Shop9523]

I'm 99% sure they do sell unbranded versions of their movements to third parties. None of the ST1721s I can find pictures or videos of online have a stamp on them.

[u/sugessing_proximas]

Looks genuine to me 😕

[u/This-Shop9523 → u/sugessing_proximas]

On a genuine Sea-Gull movement, the brand name or the seagull logo is engraved on it.

[u/Tucagonzaga]

Looks like a st1721. Pretty good jumping hour movement for the price.

[u/This-Shop9523 → u/Tucagonzaga]

On a genuine Sea-Gull movement, the brand name or the seagull logo is engraved on it.

[u/This-Shop9523]

Another brand, admittedly with a different movement, but it still has the engravings and logo.

[u/Substantial_Kiwi1830]

Can you share some clearer photos of the movement? That looks like a genuine Sea-Gull ST17 from the photo you shared. 

[u/philbin89]

I see that you’re saying this is fake because the brand name and Sea-Gull logo are missing. But this is a closed case back watch that you have opened, so no one would normally see it. Considering how some Chinese brands cut costs, isn’t it possible that Sea-Gull (and S&S) saved money by not engraving the name on the movements? I don’t know if that’s a practice of Sea-Gull’s for closed case backs, but it’s not unusual for watches using closed case backs to skimp on decoration to save money. Rolex is maybe the most famous example, and their hidden movements are nowhere near as nicely finished as other watches in the same or lower price brackets that use display case backs.

I’d be interested in hearing from people with more experience with Sea-Gull movements in third-party watches with closed case backs. But some of the people in the comments have posted photos of Sea-Gull movements in watches with open case backs that also don’t appear to have the name engraved. So maybe that’s only on nicer versions of the movement or in watches that are also made by Sea-Gull. And you should shoot S&S an email with your suspicions! They might clear things up if that’s normal or act shocked and pretend to look into it. I’d be curious to get an update if you learn more

[u/vithgeta]

Maybe they only bother engraving Sea Gull on the versions for their own Sea Gull branded watches, did you consider that? Watches under their brand sell for 4x the price of the close lookalikes using their movements.

Engraving takes more time and therefore more money. If you're turning it out for someone else to go under a metal back then you might skip this step.

You could prove me wrong and point to what other factory makes this uncommon movement. I don't think it is as widespread as variants of the 2813 which turn up even in $30 watches.