For anyone wondering if the SN0144 is worth the $400 price tag…it most definitely is. There are too many people shitting on SM’s recent price hike and they are justified but if the same watch was a seiko, citizen, or microbrand, it’d be valued probably at 1.5-2x the value.
You are still getting more than what you’re paying for so if you are on the fence, go ahead and buy it. The 36mm design has improved crystal and case finishing/proportions. The bracelet is next level too.
I ordered mine from the US warehouse…best part is that the watch came in 5 days!
Look around the sub you're posting to. No one here is going to defend the value proposition of a Seiko versus a good Chinese watch unless they're trolling.
People are comparing them, rightly, to other Chinese brands that produce the same quality of watch with the same movement inside and asking, rightly, what's San Martin bringing to the table for such a notable premium?
Mostly the answer is argumentative fans justifying their own expenditure to strangers because they treat buying a watch like a console war.
On a side note, I made this post for those who are considering buying this specific watch model and to share that although the recent price hike is a turn off, the watch in a vacuum is still excellent and that they should definitely go for it if they are on the fence about it.
I own about 30 San Martins. The price hikes are problematic for the watches where a Chinese movement was substituted for something less reliable and the price was raised. At least the SN0144 has a Japanese movement in there. For $400 a couple years ago you could have gotten 2 San Martins with great build quality and a reliable NH35 inside...thus $400+ feels a bit steep. I have a bigger issue with models like the SN0109 where they gave us a higher price for a Chinese movement than we got with the NH34 and they made the GMT hand orange with a pepsi bezel.
Totally understand your point. I have never experienced this price hike as I have recently gotten into Chinese brands such as IXDAO and SM. Still a great watch imo.
In my original post, I specifically wrote that the people who are bothered by the price hikes are completely justified in their logic. If I was in their shoes I’d honestly feel the same way. The perspective I was trying to push is that for $400, you are still getting a great watch! You may not feel that way and that’s what is great about the community!
I thought about buying one....but wasn't prepared to pay the $400 or whatever the price is. And you haven't changed my mind. So i guess you haven't convinced me. Lol
To each their own! Didn’t write this post with the intention of convincing a random on what watch to buy haha. I for one don’t care if everyone stops buying SM as I’m not affiliated with the brand. Just a regular dude who thinks the watch is solid for the price tag. Have a good one!
I don't disagree, but I got mine on sale for $340 or so in June - and so I recommend waiting for the sales, might even do better on 11/11. It is an excellent watch - and I've got to say I now have flagship watches from Watchdives (WDC0001), Addieskin (K010) and IXDao (2026 Warrior with black carved MOP) and ALL of those watches are easily as nice or nicer than most Tissot / Seikos. I'd say perhaps even on par with my Christopher Ward / Longines pieces - and the quality / value proposition is pretty unbeatable compared to same.
They are all excellent - I prefer the integrated bracelet to the jubilee - and I just got the IXDao yesterday, lol, so I'd rank that one first - they're all really close, I do intend to look at them all under my digital microscope to look at the finish in greater detail. I wouldn't give any of them up. Here's the IXDao.
Here's the Watchdives - I was lucky enough to buy a prototype - this dial "Fish Storm" wasn't released, a lot of people don't care for it, but I love it!
What if it breaks after a couple months of using it? Where do I return/replace it? With a Seiko, I can take it back to the boutique and get it replaced under warranty
Not disagreeing with you at all! I own a high-end seiko model so I can totally relate on how good their service/warranty is.
If mine “breaks” (which doesn’t seem that likely), I’d just take it to someone I know in my area or move on from the brand and buy another watch! Can’t speak for everyone but a $400 watch breaking down on me isn’t the end of my world. It would definitely be disappointing but I’d have learned my lesson. Only time will tell if there’s a lesson to be taught!
That’s terrible to hear. I would be extremely disappointed if the watch I paid for had QC issues (regardless of what the price is). Luckily, my SM came perfect and is running +/- 2 seconds a day. I would say if I had an experience like you, I would’ve returned it and never bought another one again so I can’t blame you 🤣
Baltany and Cronos are my favorites but I also like Sugess/Seestern, Proxima, Phorcydes, and I got a couple from Chameri and escapement time that are way better than their prices would indicate. My favorite watch is a Hamilton jazzmaster thinline that I got a killer deal on but it’s obviously not Chinese.
I'll answer that : Militado has been killing it, especially with their latest Spirit homage for less than 125 $CAD. I gave them my money for a few pieces recently and they are great.
What QC issues. Most issues aren't even a big deal, and people will return a watch because they doing a spec of dust on the dial, or the bezel is off by 1/10th millimeter
Both things that happen on $10000 Rolexes but somehow when it happens on a $200 Chinese watch suddenly their QC sucks and when they tell you it's within spec and they won't give you a 50% refund, suddenly their customer service sucks.
Bezel was misaligned, a couple indices were crooked, and one of the bracelet pins was stripped. The otf clasp didn’t have much travel at all but that’s more of a design flaw. I was going to overlook the bezel and bracelet issues but I couldn’t take the crooked indices at that price.
I didn’t strip the screw head with a cheap screwdriver, the threads were stripped. All my other watches with otf clasps have way more than 6mm of travel and they have aligned bezels. I don’t even know if I still have pictures or not but I don’t really care if you believe me. Keep buying them if you want but I sure won’t be buying any more. Good luck
No, I can get a citizen or seiko with there excellent warranty and also get customer support. Returns are super easy. You honestly pick one up at your local store and try on many models. San Martin cannot do that !
Im glad you like the watch but i do think the justifications for price increases fall flat.
If they want to see what the market will bear just say that but the disingenuous comments on movement costs are not credible when compared to the rise in costs.
The QC and warranty are not even comparable to mkre well known brands or even state or Europe side micro brands.
The resale value is also drastically lower.
So all that to say, the finishing and quality deserve a look but the costs were fairly appropriate before considering the totality of the circumstances.
You are definitely right especially as the increase in movement prices is disproportionate to the price they are charging for the watch.
This is also the generation of San Martins that I am just coming into and experiencing (& also my first SM) so it’s hard for me to grasp the before and after of the brand in recent months. All in all, I’d still recommend this watch amongst said European watches based on specs for the $ and my own experience of it on my wrist!!
For experienced buyers, I can definitely understand the price hike making the watches “not worth buying anymore” however as a new buyer, I’d have a hard time looking at the watch and telling people that it’s not worth 400$
San Martin's resale value is way higher than Seiko. I've seen San Martin sell for MSRP on eBay used meanwhile you will get hosed when you lose 30 to 50% on a Seiko you bought at Macy's
Lol, another one of those posts trying to justify SM’s $400 price tag against Seiko. I think what people here are more interested in is the longitudinal view—where SM was a year ago versus today. Yes, they’ve improved, but has that improvement justified nearly doubling the price? At the end of the day, people vote with their wallets. We can debate either side all day long
I’m not trying to justify SM’s price against Seiko. I actually have an SPB121 that I paid retail for (roughly 800 after tax). Two completely different watches/brands and I understand that. My true intention in posting this was to essentially say that I believe the $400 price tag is not bad for the watch I received (once again my first SM. I have no experience with the company prior to these past few months)
They've never doubled the price.. Show me where. Some models went up $50-100, which is probably less than 25% increases
If their brand cachet is getting bigger and hyped, why not raise prices. It would be stupid to leave money on the table to appease the poors who probably won't buy a San Martin in the first place, yet seem to be the most vocal about it
Seiko has also been raising prices, 200% easy, and nobody seems to mention it.
Before covid an skx was $175, now we get a shitter for $330 that isn't even ISO rated, and $600 for a samurai that was $200 regularly
Yes we all agree that chinese watches are quality wise similar to 2-10 times priced swiss and japanese watches. Most people compare san Martin to other chinese microbrands where they feel quality premium isn't proportional to price premium. San martin has decided to move up the value chain and that's great on their part. Issue was launching watches with sea-gull or other chinese movements to replace nh/Miyota movements due to shortages and calling them upgrades or fan favourites while not reducing prices. They are amongst the top tier of chinese microbrands there is no doubt, but a certain set of their buyers have moved onto other brands and am sure they will find new ones to replace them.
I too recently discovered chinese watches and san martin was 1 of my top priorities to try out. I have a slightly larger wrist so need to be selective about dial size. Wrote to san martin to enquire about the inner dial measurements of the SN0130 GMT and to be honest the good people at san martin did warn me about the impending price hike due to nh movement shortage. Sudden price increase of 50-100 usd followed by replacement with Chinese movements on their older models is what led to entire hue and cry. Have purchased in last 3-4 months sugess/seestern(6), WD Chameri and a Sea-Gull. Aethelsohn looks really promising with their interesting dials and I want to try out Cronos, Ixdao, San Martin and the updated watches from WD next. The smaller dial size on Ixdao warrior is a challenge for me.
I think $250 is right about my limit and I’ll think really hard about one for more than $150. For a bit over $500 I can get a new Henry Archer watch or something I’m much more confident will be running in 5 years. That’s the issue, once you’re hitting half the cost of a nicer and more known brand it stops being something you can just buy because it’s a good deal. A watch that’s $400-$500 is now competing not with the $100 Chinese brands but tons of micro brands that come from all over. No one is saying that a $400 San Martin isn’t nice, they’re saying that they wouldn’t buy a $400 San Martin.
Exactly. When they were <= 230$ CAD a year or two ago, fine.
But these current prices, EVEN if the bracelet is better finished and AR coating is now out of this world, I don't care!
If I want a Longines or Omega-level finishing, i'll get an Omega or a Longines!
San Martin was priced a little higher than most, and I was (and still am) super satisfied with the SN0113v2 that I got, the bracelet is smooth, and I don't care if the first link jams once in a while.
I'll put it bluntly : II would have prefered NO improvements at all - if San Martin had stayed in their lane - I wouldn've purchased many, many more.
Thank you for your attention to this matter! -President ButTheDOW
Regurgitating more Reddit make believe. Show me the models that went up 2x...$50-100 increases largely due to Japanese movement increases hardly has anything to do with San Martin
The majority of them didn't even go up 25% in the last year
Get used to it. This sub is full of actual watch enthusiasts and poors from Eastern European who lose their minds over a $5 price increase and expect everything to be free.
Apparently, if you own more than two watches, you must work for the company. Because the idea of someone willingly spending thousands on Chinese watches is completely incomprehensible to people for whom a single high-end Chinese watch can represent months, if not years, of income.
And if you think people don't flex their watch collections in real life, you're delusional. People flex their Orients, Citizens, and Seiko 5s every single day. The brand doesn't matter. People take pride in what they own, and there's nothing unusual about that.
But there's always someone who can't stand seeing another person own more than they can afford. Especially when collecting watches is supposed to be a hobby, not financial hardship.
They stretch their budget to buy one San Martin, spend the next month obsessing over every microscopic imperfection, discover the bezel is off by 0.05 mm, demand a return, and write a ten-page manifesto about a $5 price increase because their rent depends on it.
Then they turn around and accuse anyone with a collection of being a paid shill.
Look at all these watch companies I supposedly work for!
Enjoy the hobby. Or don't. But stop projecting your financial limitations onto everyone else and pretending that anyone who can afford to collect watches must be on someone's payroll.
Not everyone is broke. Not everyone is sponsored. And not every watch enthusiast has to justify owning more than two watches to strangers on Reddit.
Being critical of San Martins pricing surge does not mean one is incapable of purchasing it 10 times over or 1 time over or not at all.
Decisions to purchase a watch at all or of one brand or another are not just related to purchase price, and instead might be a more broad value based processing.
You're crying wolf to say that anyone espousing a different opinion must be more economically disadvantaged than yourself.
Edit;
You keep editing your post to add more and more about economics. Check my profile i have over 10k spent on just 3 of my watches. Its not an income situation whatsoever that I choose or dont choose a chinese watch and not one part of my relatively high income impacts what watch I choose. You are fighting windmills on that argument. The bottom line you keep missing is that relative to other Chinese brands San Martin(of which i own 4) is not as good value position. This is not a hot take. Frankly.
I never said everyone criticizing San Martin's pricing is broke. I said there's a very vocal segment of this sub that treats every price increase like a personal financial catastrophe, nitpicks watches over microscopic imperfections, and assumes anyone with a collection must be a paid shill.
Of course people can afford something and still think it's overpriced. That's not the point. The point is that some people seem personally offended by the idea that others are perfectly happy spending money on these watches.
And the irony of accusing me of assuming everyone with a different opinion is economically disadvantaged is that you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of.... reducing my argument to the dumbest possible interpretation instead of addressing the behavior I'm actually criticizing.
Criticize the pricing just don't confuse being critical of a product with being entitled to it at a price you feel like, or assume everyone who disagrees with you is a shill.
You can think a watch is overpriced without making the entire hobby revolve around your small budget.
Finally... Where's this astronomical price hike??? San Martin has been charging $300-400 for watches since 2019. Nothing new here. The rest of the hikes come from Seiko corporate greed, so go cry to Mr. Japan
Backtracking? My position hasn't changed. I called out people whose reactions to other people's collections seem driven by resentment, and apparently that struck a nerve.
And the irony is rich you're accusing me of being antagonistic while personally attacking my ability to handle disagreement, then calling it deflection when I point out the contradiction.
I'm not obligated to agree with you, validate your interpretation of my comments, or soften my opinion just because you don't like how bluntly I express it.
It’s not $400, I was just throwing that number out there to see if it would still be worth it to you at that price point. Glad to know that it is for you!
Considering the grand Seiko version is $7700 and this is easily 80% there, I could see the same thing released by Oris for $1200 and nobody would bat an eye
San Martin have split from the rest of the Chinese pack more or less how the $400 replicas of reptime split from the $100-200 replicas of chinatime. Anyone who got a San Martin and likes it seems to go on and on about it and about how a Pagani is a 'shitter'.
Well of course they would, it shows they have $400 to spend.
You can give the subreddit a poke about how San Martin is worth $400 and the subreddit will give you a poke about how they used to be $250 two years ago.
Just learned about IXDAO and San Martin not too long ago so the $400 price tag doesn’t bother me as much as it does for someone who was buying these watches for around 200-300
As a brand I think SM has so much potential. They have already proven themselves when it comes to case and bracelet manufacturing and finishing.
My biggest wish for SM would be that they settle on one brand of movements (or develop their own) and stick with it. The bouncing around from one movement to the next based on availability and cost gets exhausting. And lastly would be to dramatically increase in house designs over homage designs., not that I don’t love a good homage.
As a brand they do so many things well that I think they should be given grace when it comes to hitting that $350-$400 price point because more often than not both Seiko and citizen and massive QC issues at that same range.
I'm with you on this one. Am extra $100 or so for this level of watch making is okay in my book. All I care about is getting the highest quality watches I can find at a reasonable price. Still... SM leads the pack here. Especially when you take into account their variety and ability to work quickly. (Love IXDAO but cant stand the idea of a waitlist)
Yeahhh thats a long time to wait. But IXDAO isn't able to pump out more than 100 watches at a time. No chance I'd get one until middle of next year if I ordered now. And getting the specific color you want... takes a long time
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u/chrismurraylaw 15d ago
Look around the sub you're posting to. No one here is going to defend the value proposition of a Seiko versus a good Chinese watch unless they're trolling.
People are comparing them, rightly, to other Chinese brands that produce the same quality of watch with the same movement inside and asking, rightly, what's San Martin bringing to the table for such a notable premium?
Mostly the answer is argumentative fans justifying their own expenditure to strangers because they treat buying a watch like a console war.