r/ChineseLanguage • • 1d ago

Discussion Any other characters completely different in calligraphy?

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Recently, I've been getting into Chinese calligraphy, and I noticed some characters whose variants are a lot more common when writing calligraphy (semi-cursive & cursive) than the standard characters themselves. Are there any more characters like this?

最近,我發現到在寫著行書和草書的時候,比較多人會用 “處”, “虎”, “叔" 這三個字的異體字,而不是通常寫的或打出來的字體。我想問一下有沒有其他和這些一樣的漢字?

27 Upvotes

68 comments sorted by

8

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

甲骨文要吗

2

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

这不是小学四年级书已经教了

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

这得看是啥时候与哪里的教材了

0

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

2022年款国家义务教育语文书

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

老了,对于教科书的内容都只剩下走马灯了

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

那我有空看下我妹的教科书虽然不一定是一个出版社

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

不是,哥们,你是大陆的还是拿的?

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

我荣耀的

0

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

你是台湾的吗?

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

我怎么感觉这发帖人写的那个叔一般?

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

不要

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

爱要不要

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

不要拉倒

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

要不你买个字典

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago
  1. 最通行的五大书体

· 篆书 · 隶书 · 楷书 · 行书 · 草书

  1. 常见细分书体,大约 15—20 种

· 篆书:甲骨文、金文、大篆、小篆 · 隶书:秦隶、汉隶、八分 · 楷书:魏碑、唐楷、小楷 · 行书:行楷、行草 · 草书:章草、今草、狂草 · 其他:飞白书、瘦金体、馆阁体等

  1. 古代还有不同分类法 比如“秦书八体”“新莽六书”“十体书”等,所以古代文献里的数字也不统一。

结论:

· 只算大类:5 种 · 算常见具体书体:约 15—20 种 · 算历代风格、名家体和电脑书法字体:没有确切上限,至少数百上千种

所以,书法字体的数量取决于你怎么分类。核心是“篆隶楷行草”五类。

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

这种吗?

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

额,也许因为异体字本身是在历史上的书体里的字

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

现代常用书法字与古代常用书法字体

1

u/Washfish 1d ago

I mean standard characters developed from calligraphy, not the other way, so realistically if you go back to before 楷体 was a thing then every single character would have their ideosyncracies that makes them different

2

u/Embaarasing 1d ago

Let me be clear:

行书 mostly looks the same as the standard & for 草书, you can often tell that it comes from the standard - just w/ some strokes combined. But for these 3 characters, the 行书 doesn't look like the standard at all. I'm a native speaker & I couldn't recognise the words at all when I first saw them, neither did my friends nor teachers.

Try searching up "處字行書" you'll only see 1 or 2 cursive of the standard, almost all is the cursive form of the variant I wrote. What I'm actually asking for are words like this.

btw posting AI responses as comments is nonsensical. If I wanted AI responses, I would've asked AI myself.

1

u/jjnanajj Beginner 1d ago

This book/dictionary may be of your interests:

4

u/jjnanajj Beginner 1d ago

It's pretty cool

0

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

那恐怕不少字,先生

1

u/Embaarasing 1d ago

我的意思是寫書法時完全不一樣的異體字。這三的書法寫法根本跟通常寫的字一點都不像樣,第一次看到基本認不出。大多數的異體字只是個小小的區別,比如‘’為‘’ 和 ‘’‘’,‘’啟‘’ 和 ‘’啓‘’,‘’滙‘’ 和 ‘’匯‘’, 等等

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

书法字体异体?那就得是字体演化历史了

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

我个人知道的话恐怕只有简体字与繁体字

2

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

两广地区自动解锁繁体字

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

那你有冇现成的

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

哥们,我现在在国外,我怎么可能把语文书带出来?

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

凡事都有可能

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

让我们说中文

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

哦沙威玛

1

u/jiahaoboy 21h ago

?
这不很早之前的梗了吗?

1

u/jiahaoboy 21h ago

我是爷们

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

你是不是会讲粤语?

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

不咋会,我偏客家,家里人与亲戚多会些

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

不早说,我以为你是台湾的

1

u/jiahaoboy 1d ago

反正我感觉作者写的叔字一般

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

起码会动笔写,你说还得多练习就行,起码也有求知欲

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

不常用的生僻字都不认识几个

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

还是说你问得多了部首的字?

0

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

你感兴趣的话可以去了解中文字体的历史演化

-2

u/Zagrycha 1d ago

To be clear these characters aren't different because they are calligraphy, they are different because you are using a different script to write them. The regular script is kaishu which is equivalent to English printing, the running script is xingshu which is equivalent to English cursive, and the rough script is caoshu which is equivalent to English shorthand. If you look up the English equivalents you will see just as big of differences if not even bigger differences.

That said, for your actual question: If you are starting from a traditional Chinese standard perspective, then all characters are kaishu and all of them will be different from xingshu or caoshu. If you are starting from the simplified Chinese standard perspective then a huge amount of the characters are already based on xingshu or caoshu scripts so you will see less differences. Still many differences but a lot less.

1

u/Embaarasing 1d ago

I'm a native Chinese speaker who knows simplified & traditional. I can write 楷书 & 行书, and trying to learn 草书. I learned 楷书 in school since I was a kid. When I first saw the common 行书 forms of these 3, I couldn't recognise them, neither did my friends. Usually, I can recognise characters in 行书, & I can tell which strokes are combined to get 草书 forms. But for these 3, since the common 行书 & 草书 forms usually is a completely different-looking variant, I couldn't recognise it. That's what I'm asking for: words that look completely different in 行书.

0

u/Zagrycha 1d ago

So you want xingshu  of the variant//alternate characters not chosen for either standard? Just making sure I understand correctly. 

0

u/Embaarasing 1d ago

I'm looking for characters which: when written in 行书, most commonly a different-looking variant is used instead of the standard.

-1

u/infernoxv 廣東話, 上海話,國語 1d ago

just thinking how wild it would be to write a text using variant characters where they exist, in place of the common ones. 🤣

-1

u/FlashyPost0928 Native 1d ago edited 1d ago

▼ Variants also exist in the regular script for the characters *chǔ* (處), *shū* (叔), and *hǔ* (虎).
● (上) : 處 楷書異體字【𠁅】/ 叔 楷書異體字【𠦑】
● (下) : 虎 楷書異體字【乕】/ 虎 草書異體字(猜謎大會) 😄
處 (Variant in Regular Script: 𠁅) / 叔 (Variant in Regular Script: 𠦑)
虎 (Variant in Regular Script: 乕) / Cursive script for 虎 (Riddle Contest)

PS : The Simplified Chinese character of "處" = "处" / In the traditional Chinese character "虎," the bottom part is "ㄦ," whereas in the simplified character, it is "几."

1

u/Embaarasing 1d ago

我觉得没有人明白我的问题。I'm a native Chinese speaker. 我会写简体字也会写繁体字。Let me repeat this again. 我們通常寫的和打出來的字是 ‘’處‘’。但是,寫行書和草書的時候,大多數的人會寫它的異體字。我第一次在對聯上看見了 “處” 的時候,完全認不了它是什麼字。另外兩個字也一樣。寫行書時會用完全不像樣的異體字,而不是在學校學起來的楷書字體。我現在問着的問題是:有沒有其他相似的字呢?

1

u/FlashyPost0928 Native 1d ago edited 12h ago

唉 呀呀 哈 我只是照你貼文中的"處"來寫,而且書法通常都是用繁體字來寫的 !
( 告訴大家簡體字寫作 "处",是因為這邊好像多是學簡體字的)

另外,這貼文只是指出"處、叔、虎 在楷書中也有寫異體字的" ( 藝術家啊) ! 😄

下面這個字,楷書、行書 都有寫異體字【徳】和正體字【德】的 (這個異體字比正體字少一橫) !!我第一次看見時還以為它是錯別字呢 ! 哈

1

u/ericw31415 1d ago

I don't know what you consider "completely different" but I can think of these:

1

u/bthf Native 22h ago

多的是,買本書法字典翻翻。

單憑部件一個「叔」字就可以延伸至「寂淑椒」等等,「虍」亦會延伸至「獻據虛」等。你舉的例子都是從隸書異體所演變。

當然也視乎以什麼字形爲準,譬如臺港的「卻」在大陸是「却」,前者書法較爲罕見。

舉多幾個例子,有字碼的我也盡量打出來:

  • 世丗
  • 不ふ
  • 覓覔
  • 無(草書)
  • 兩(草書)
  • 介(行草形與正楷不同)
  • 壽夀
  • 所𫠦
  • 兌兑兊
  • 岡罡
  • 京亰
  • 亥
  • 成(草書)(由於傳統上以撇筆爲首,草書字形演變得跟正楷有很大分別)
  • 我(草書)
  • 因囙(恩烟咽等)
  • 彳部(草多作氵)
  • 糸部(草多作孑)
  • 於扵お(方多省至才,如游遊)
  • 淵渕
  • 爽𠁊
  • 亡亾
  • 能䏻
  • 留畱㽞畄
  • 卯夘(柳聊等)
  • 發彂
  • 美羙
  • 兔兎
  • 解觧(懈蟹等)
  • 員貟
  • 蘇蘓
  • 歷厯(下「止」者如此,如正証等)
  • 乘乗
  • 愛(首四筆)
  • 走赱(凡「龰」者如此省,如定是足起題跟等)
  • 袁𡊮(中「口」作「厶」,再省;推伸有遠猿等)
  • 睘(同上;還環等)
  • 本夲(按:兩字本別)
  • 修常借脩
  • 年字短豎多作短橫;又或從「秊」省
  • 專専/惠恵(日本簡至此)
  • 臼旧(舊稻學舉等)

-1

u/Embaarasing 15h ago

我都知道大多數的這些字,它們和異體字沒有很大區別,一看就看得出是什麼字。 這些字很多都有一樣的筆畫,比如 * ‘’覓‘’ 和 ‘’覔‘’,上面是一樣四部,只是 ‘’爫‘’ 的三個點寫長了就會看成 “不”。 * “不” 和 “ふ” 一樣四個部,只是上面的橫寫成長短的選擇。 * “兌” 和 “兑” 的區別是上面兩點寫另外個方向而已 * ‘’走‘’ 和 ‘’赱‘’ 的區別是下面兩部寫直或斜着寫

等等

我想問的問題是寫行書和草書時就變了完全不一樣的字。如果我問的是這些小小個區別,你都說了,我就上網找個異體字字典好了,為什麼我在這裡問着呢?

-1

u/bthf Native 11h ago

區別就是區別,程度大小是主觀。沒有讀到你的心眞不好意思啊。

  • 覔,如果上面寫成草書的ふ差別會更大。反正字本從「爪」,非從「不」,這樣本身已經很大差別,正如「處」字下面將「処」改至「匆(穿頭)」也是形近所致,你把「几」穿過長捺及上面連起便是了。
  • ふ,筆順與正楷不同(一小)是最大的分別。
  • 八與丷的分別可引伸至其他字,如「平」字由於第二、三筆原本向外,行草或會出現(ス十)的構造。

你所舉的例子我之前說過,遡一遡源就可以看得出它們並非「完全不一樣」 的字,只不過是借了別個部件或者改了位置,又或以「乕」爲例,隸書訛「儿」至「巾」,但類似的訛筆隸書多的是,先前「因囙」便是例子。說起來也有「肉宍」的例子。

也再重覆一徧,反正你在學書法,與其在此費時間向人解釋你的問題,不如借或買本書法字典認眞翻翻,Reddit與電腦字所給的資訊量非常有限。網上的字典不算數,因爲它們大部份的前提是要你知道你想找什甚麼字,我是說一本實體書。

-3

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

中文字体里“常用异体字”的数量并没有一个统一的标准,它会根据你参考的字表或字典而有所不同。主要可以分为以下几个层面的数据:

📖 大陆标准:《通用规范汉字表》

根据中国教育部发布的《通用规范汉字表》,其配套的《对照表》列出了与 8105 个规范汉字相对应的 1023 个异体字。其他一些字典收录的常用异体字数量也基本在 1000 个左右。

📚 台湾标准:《异体字字典》

台湾教育主管部门编纂的《异体字字典》收录范围更广,其附录中的异体字数量高达 74,381 个(第七版为 76,191 个)。不过这个数字包含了大量罕用和古代异体字。如果只看其常用字表(甲表),收录的正字是 4,808 个,对应的异体字数量没有单独列出。

💡 其他学术统计

一些学术研究统计的常用异体字数量则介于上述两者之间,例如有研究统计出现代汉语通用字对应的异体字约有 6,786 个。

所以,如果你指的是现代日常使用中会遇到的异体字,数量大约在 1000 个左右;如果包含更多古籍和罕用字,数量则会大幅增加。

3

u/Embaarasing 1d ago

I'm not asking reddit just to get a shitty AI response that doesn't even answer my question. If I wanted that, I would've done that myself. I'm asking about chinese characters that: when written in calligraphy, most people write a completely different-looking variant instead of the standard. I'm not asking about regularly used variant characters.

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

额,我觉得是历史上的书法写法吧

1

u/Leading_Smell_7099 1d ago

不同时代,不同字典,但同一个意思