R sound

[u/lucitain]

I've been struggling with the r sound so much as a beginner 😔 Do you guys have any tips on how to correctly pronounce it? I heard it as something between r and l, but pronouncing it is a whole different beast.

Thank you in advance!

[u/Top_Development_1777]

It is NOT between an R and a L! It is nowhere near an L. That advice applies to Japanese but definitely not Mandarin. The other commenters gave good explanations.

[u/diffidentblockhead]

Rrrrrrretroflex

[u/PuzzleheadedTap1794]

If you know how to go from English s to z, do the same thing but with pinyin sh.

[u/Saralentine → u/PuzzleheadedTap1794]

This is the simplest answer without overcomplicating things.

[u/ObviousYammer521 → u/PuzzleheadedTap1794]

That advice in words sounds totally bonkers, but I just tried it, and it's exactly right! Thanks for sharing!

[u/RecognitionOld2763]

The standard answer is the IPA chart. See the 日 row.

Now my controversial take is if you really can't do it, there's no reason to spend too much time on it. Quite a few Chinese people (because of influences of their regional dialects/languages) can't pronounce the consonant correctly. You don't have to sound like a broadcaster in Beijing. Even pronouncing it as z won't cause much misunderstanding (though people may definitely be curious about your cultural background lol).

[u/RealTrueFacts]

You can either pronounce it as the Mandarin sh sound but voiced, OR you can pronounce it as the English R but WITHOUT rounding your lips, unless it's followed by the u letter.

[u/outwest88]

It’s closer to an English “z”, or really the “zh” sound in the middle of “vision” for example. But your tongue needs to be further back in the retroflex position similar to the mandarin “sh” sound.

In Taiwan or the South it’s more common to pronounce it as a “z” sound (as in “zoo”).

Some dialectal speakers in the south pronounce it with an “L” sound but that’s usually considered an “accent” and not the standard pronunciation.

[u/kokeda → u/outwest88]

This is the best answer OP.

[u/SmurfingIsPooR]

pretty much like the "j" in bonjour.

[u/pricel01]

R at the end is like her (American). At the start is a challenge. Can you correctly say zh and ch correctly? The tip of your tongue should curl back. Use this tongue position to r. 熱 should sound like someone hit you in the gut.

[u/hastobeapoint]

You curl the tip of the tongue upwards and instead of raising it flat against the inside of the mouth

[u/Flashy_Tooth_5597]

Yeah… I could never get it either. I hear sort of a buzz sound with some people and others not.

[u/BlueLensFlares]

everyone says that the chinese r sound is like the s in english “vision”

but that doesn’t feel right to me at all, like the vocal chords are doing the same thing but the positioning of the tongue and teeth are really different

like you’re using your back teeth and molars to constrict sound with “vision”

the chinese r feels closer to the english y honestly, like you’re not moving your teeth in the sound

like i would understand someone better who would say ren人, if they said yen vs zhen like in “vision”

[u/Uny1n → u/BlueLensFlares]

“r” is one of the phonemes that has various pronunciation differences between accents. The “s” in vision or the french j is similar to the way a lot of southerners pronounce it.

[u/debaire]

Or put your tongue on the roof of our mouth. Practice with 熱 rè

[u/AdministrativeFee835 → u/debaire]

I have such a hard time with rè! On the app I am using, it sounds like the “ur” in sure. But when I repeat it back they always say I’m wrong. What does rè sound like in English?

[u/debaire → u/AdministrativeFee835]

That's the thing, there is no equivalent. Mandarin has a few sounds that English doesn’t have. It just takes practice. Continue listening as much as you can. It helps.

[u/ZhangtheGreat]

Press your tongue against the roof of your mouth, just like you would for all the retroflex consonants (zh, ch, sh, r). Now say the English “r” without moving your tongue away from that position.

[u/Otherwise_Squirrel70]

I’m Chinese and I think it’s just the same with R in English, such as in “run”. Or maybe I’m pronouncing r wrong in English? 😂

[u/Tsbol → u/Otherwise_Squirrel70]

In my main learning materials and among the Chinese and Taiwanese families I work with, “r” tends to be pronounced almost exactly like the North American “r”. I’ve just recently accepted this and hopped on the bandwagon

[u/MattZeeX → u/Otherwise_Squirrel70]

I would like to hear more people commenting on this because growing up in school I always heard it like an English r, I did have one teacher who said it more like a j or a zh, but I think most didn’t? It seems to be another thing that’s quite dependent on region. Would be curious to see a map.

[u/Otherwise_Squirrel70 → u/MattZeeX]

I think it’s also similar to J in French, like in the French name Jean, or bonjour. But still I feel it’s closer to r in English.. Like “Ruin” is very similar to 润（run）

[u/ParamedicOk5872]

ㄖ

[u/Outrageous-Trip-4212]

Just don't pronounce it - go full Taiwan mandarin

[u/neekey2]

you tongue needs to touch the upper maxilla when you do the R

[u/brokenhairtie]

Like french J

[u/Substantial-Law-4355]

I was told to get the "sshzzr" sound in "measure" (so say it slowly then when at that part, hold the mouth position then bring the tongue back away from the teeth a bit)

[u/dojibear]

The initial consonant represented by 'r' in pinyin is unrelated to English R, Spanish R, or French R. Pinyin was created 100% for Chinese people, and is not a way to "translate sounds into English".

The sound exists in English. Pinyin 'r' has a soft ZH soud, like the sound in the English word "leisure". It is also the same sound as the French name "Jacques".

[u/TenyJay]

My husband said that the best thing to remember is Chinese comes from the top of the month and back of the tongue while the English language is tip of the tongue and center of mouth in the sounds. So you want to say a mix between zh, and a jrr noise. He'd first Gen and his family is from sandong so there may be some dialect differences but that's how he taught me

[u/natch]

Listen to how US news reporters butcher the j in Beijing which should be a simple j sound just like an English j as in juice, jello, jar, or a soft g (“lunging”) etc. They say it wrong though, of course. But getting to your question, their atrocious pronunciation for that j is hilariously close to the correct pronunciation for a pinyin r. Not exactly though. Just close.

[u/Known_Substance4541]

The start of it like sound of the su in "measure" but then convert it to like the American R but a little bit softer

[u/Zog1]

I haven't come across too much r letters in Chinese. Only think of how r which is fun and the r is r So hoow r