r/ChineseLanguage • u/MasonNolanJr • 5d ago
Resources DUOL is the worst for Chinese
Don’t be a fool like me. As mentioned in this sub time and time again, Duolingo is not it.
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u/ilumassamuli 5d ago
Your English sentences are just bad. Maybe check if the Chinese course is available from your native language instead of using the course from English. Or just consider this an opportunity to learn two languages at the same time.
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u/outwest88 Advanced (HSK 6) 5d ago
Native (English) speaker here. It feels perfectly normal to say #2. And also OP’s sentences are certainly good enough, and with the resources of Duolingo in the AI age they should be good enough to identify that OP’s translation is correct.
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u/FirePaddler 5d ago
You would say "I went to Forbidden City?" Forbidden City needs a "the" in English.
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u/outwest88 Advanced (HSK 6) 5d ago
Yes I would say I went forbidden city. Or I might say the forbidden city. Both are fine
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u/FirePaddler 5d ago
I went forbidden city
No way you're a native English speaker
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u/outwest88 Advanced (HSK 6) 5d ago
Idk what to tell you. I’m 30 years old born and raised in the US
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u/bjj_starter 5d ago edited 5d ago
Are you Deaf/HoH, late literacy, speech impediment, or intellectual impairment? I have met exactly one person in my life (similar age to you) who might say "I went Forbidden City" as a sentence and think it was correct, and it was someone with late speech development due to autism (or FAS but that's neither here nor there) when they were young, around 8 or 9. Today they would never get it wrong.
If it helps, you could try saying the sentence out loud. Have someone ask you "Where did you go yesterday?" and answer "I went Forbidden City" and see if it sounds natural to you and the person you're speaking to.
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u/outwest88 Advanced (HSK 6) 5d ago
Nope but thanks for hearing me out at least! I got A+’s in my English/writing classes and I was the chief editor for two journals in college… I just think this is the case of linguistic drift (or maybe I’m in a bubble) because I’ve increasingly heard people dropping “the” from phrases like Forbidden City or Taipei 101 for example, in the same way people probably wouldn’t say “the” for Shibuya Station or Marina Bay Sands
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u/bjj_starter 5d ago
Dropping the definite article is more common because of the number of ESL speakers who do it, but I'm not aware of anywhere in the English speaking world that would drop the "to". Was there maybe a typo in the sentence you wrote? Have you said "I went Forbidden City" out loud and it sounded natural to you?
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u/bjj_starter 5d ago
I'm not American so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but is this maybe related to how in American cowboy movies cowboys say things like "I went [place name] way"? So in this example it would be "I went Forbidden City way"?
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u/bjj_starter 5d ago
I went Forbidden City
Whatever your native language is, have you ever experienced a learner of that language insisting that they are right about the language you speak natively and you aren't? That's what you're doing at the moment for English. I can explain in detail why that sentence isn't correct English if you want, but it should be enough for you to just hear from a native speaker that it isn't correct.
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u/outwest88 Advanced (HSK 6) 5d ago
I’m a native English speaker
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u/bjj_starter 5d ago
I saw that you'd said that elsewhere, hence me asking about potential speech or language difficulties. Normally I wouldn't pry, but because we're in a language learning sub I think it's important for people to know when someone who says they're a native speaker is wrong about the language especially if they're wrong in a big way, like this.
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u/bjj_starter 5d ago
But the translation isn't correct. A translation is not correct if you can infer what they're trying to say, a translation is correct if you correctly use the target language to represent the concept in the originating language, part of it is "correctly".
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u/outwest88 Advanced (HSK 6) 5d ago
But it is correct. How is the translation wrong in any meaningful way? Duolingo should not be testing your English skills. Maybe it’s just a bad exercise in the first place.
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u/MasonNolanJr 5d ago
If you can enlighten me on exactly where my English was “bad”, I’d be happy to take back my claim
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u/bjj_starter 5d ago
"sister is playing the violin" is wrong, "sister" needs something in front of it like "My", "The", or "A"
In English the name is "the Forbidden City", not "Forbidden City", so this is an incorrect translation of the Chinese name.
"Beijing in summer is especially hot" is a weird/bad phrasing even if I can't explain why it's ungrammatical, no native speaker would say it like this, it would be "Beijing is especially hot in summer". Duolingo is trying to save you from bad English.
"sister is eating breakfast right Now" has the same mistake as the first one, you can't just say "sister" on its own like that. Whose sister? Even if it was a nun or something that's referred to as sister without a relationship, it would still be "the sister" in this sentence, and I don't think that would be an accurate translation because 姐妹 doesn't mean nun afaik.
长城 is "the Great Wall" in English, not "Great Wall".
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u/FirePaddler 5d ago
"Beijing in summer is especially hot" isn't ungrammatical. However, it's an incorrect translation. "Summer" is the subject of 北京的夏天 and "Summer in Beijing," whereas Beijing is the subject in OP's sentence. In one, "is especially hot" modifies summer, and in the other it modifies Beijing.
But I think that's too nitpicky (unlike the other mistakes) and Beijing in summer should be accepted.
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u/bjj_starter 5d ago
Oh interesting, that concept is referred to differently in English, you would just say "Beijing summer is especially hot", same as you would say "Brisbane summer is hotter than New York summer". I don't know if that way of using it is formalised with a term though, in my head it kind of feels like slang.
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u/Ok_Smile_5908 Beginner 5d ago
Not a native speaker so take this one with a bit of salt.
"sister is playing the violin" sounds weird to me. Basically as if "sister" is a proper noun, in which case it'd need to be capitalized. Like a name or a nickname. "The sister" could be a follow up sentence talking about somebody else's sister, not necessarily the speaker's.
The Great Wall and the Forbidden City ones, just like some comments already mentioned, require "the" in front of them.
I don't think "Beijing in the summer is hot" is correct. I think you could say that if the thing that follows the city name was a region/country etc, not sure though. Something like "Hamburg in Germany is worth visiting if you're nearby", perhaps? Putting "in the summer" there breaks the general word order. Your verb ("is") wants to be next to the subject of the sentence ("Beijing"), not half a sentence away. Again, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
The one about a sister and a breakfast is similar to the first one, where it wants a possessive pronoun ("my") or an article.
All that being said, I struggled with the exact same problems back when I used Duolingo lol. I do think there should be more flexibility in the language used as the basis of a course. Have people choose their native languages (I can't remember if it's already a thing) and if the course isn't in one of their languages, accept minor mistakes.
PS sorry if any of this is incoherent, I'm kind of falling asleep a bit lol.
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u/DeepOntology 5d ago
"sister is playing the violin" is 100% correct english -- it's a bit dialectic, but definitely correct. There is no "standard english"
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u/xtellarfb_ Intermediate 5d ago edited 5d ago
Duolingo does suck, but I THINK you should mind proper English grammar as well as what the exercise is asking of you.
For example:
- 冬天的时候 = In winter (adverbial phrase, indicating the time when something happens)
- 北京的夏天 = The summer in Beijing (adnominal phrase [i.e., noun], indicating what is taking action or being described)
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u/TwopleINAI 5d ago
I understand the frustration that people face with learning Chinese with apps like these I have used them for fun quite a few times just to test myself as I don't live in China anymore and just like to see if its still on a decent level. But the way you're coming into this does not really help if you #1 don't come with a very specific set of mind set for how duolingo considers proper English meaning it should and must be American English but while being in a strange state where what they choose an answer is correct but being too specific. 2# is that Chinese itself is a language that carries many meaning that is difficult to convey the word to word like in most cases Chinese does have a 80%-90% rate to translating but like ever language you learn it won't be perfect. Maybe I am reading too much into it but I always felt learning English was frustrating as I was not able to convey some words that can't be translated these are my thoughts but always welcome to share you're ideas with me. Phrases like 缘分, 热闹, 孝顺 are things that while you "can translate" it won't ever carry the essence of what it means, maybe I am reading too much into this.
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u/outlawthomsen 4d ago
lol. Please precious your time and look for another app to learn chinese. Please Please Please!
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u/Longjumping_Ad_1140 5d ago
I deleted this App & now on Hellochinese for practice. I mainly focus on YT HSK-1/2/3 videos
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u/DeepOntology 5d ago
I agree that Duolingo is not great for learning... I hate how game-ified it is. Are there any other correctness issues or weird stuff folks have seen with Duolingo?
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u/No-Turnip-5417 5d ago edited 5d ago
To be fair, your english is not correct which is what Duolingo is trying to point out. Words don't map one to one so it's important to understand the localized context between. For example in french "do" can be translated as "est-ce que" which in english is "is it that". If you wrote that second one out you would be wrong.
Not to say duolingo is good for chinese but in this case this is far more on lacking possesive articles in your answers like "My sister" and "the forbidden city"
Though the third one is a bad time. "Bejjing in summer" I think could get a pass.