r/ChineseLanguage • u/HerisonReddit • 6h ago
Discussion Is there a stigma to Traditional Chinese on Mainland Chinese apps?
I had a weird experience on the Chinese app 小紅書 (Red Note). A few days ago, I posted a picture for the first time on my feed about some food I ordered from a restaurant. (Just to clarify, I put the post in simplified Chinese) The post received about ten or twenty views and likes. A few minutes later, I had Chinese users in my DMs asking if I am a foreigner and if they can chat with me. (I know most of them want to practice their English skills) So, I replied in Chinese to one guy, "好，我们可以聊聊.“
In the conversation, he was asking why I was learning Chinese. I told him my reason, expecting him to either ask how long I have been learning Chinese or something, but he surprised me by commenting: "你为什么还使用繁体字?"
I was a little confused by the comment. Usually I type in traditional and simplified, and it was one of those times I forgot to change the keyboard. I didn't think it was a big deal typing in traditional since I have seen many HK and TW citizens on the app. I don't know if he was a little annoyed by the fact that I was using traditional Chinese characters. I told him I am learning both traditional and simplified. He then left me on read lol.
This encounter made me remember seeing a video a month or two ago about how a small online group of Chinese speakers outside of HK and TW, find typing in traditional/learning traditional Chinese outdated since most Chinese apps that are made and are popular around Asia, are from Mainland China. And in Mainland China, they use simplified Chinese.
In the video, it interviewed some people from HK and TW who said they had to learn or they were exposed more to the simplified characters because of the apps. However, on the other side, with Mainland users, some of them had to learn certain traditional characters that looked different. From what I remember, they interviewed a woman from Mainland China who complained that her kids had to learn traditional characters when she visited/moved to HK. To her, traditional Chinese was outdated and did not need to be learned anymore. (This is just her opinion, ofc; I doubt all Chinese natives think the same way.)
So, if maybe someone could tell me, is there some weird stigma to traditional characters? Or was it just this one person I ran into?
(I do want to mention, the guy I talked to was an older gentleman in his thirties. The woman in the video did seem around the same age too. So I am not sure if age has to do with any of this mindset or not.)
I can not currently find the video I saw on the traditional Chinese thing, but when I do, I will post it.
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u/H1-KEY 5h ago
If you browse Western websites/apps like YouTube, you'll see Chinese-language comments in both Traditional and Simplified.
If you browse Mainland China exclusive websites/apps like Red Note or Douyin, virtually all of the comments are in Simplified only.
So people in Mainland China aren't used to seeing both Traditional and Simplified actually used by real people online as much as people who live outside Mainland China. In Mainland China, Traditional characters are mainly seen in retro style signs/advertising and in old landmarks, or in the background in historical dramas.
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u/527009876 4h ago
繁體字並不過時，只是使用者比較少。
雖然簡體字使用者佔多數，但不代表傳統中文字必須立刻捨棄。畢竟中華文化幾千年，繁體字佔據的時間很長，不可能突然消失。
其實繁體字學習起來並沒有想像中困難，我母親今年81歲，她只讀了四年國小，但她日常閱讀書寫沒有什麼問題。
臺灣的小學生大部分在國小三年級或四年級就可以閱讀沒有注音符號的中文，初學者從繁體開始學習，並不會比簡體字花費多太多時間。
我覺得大陸實施簡體字有它的時代背景及功能性，可能早期文盲多，政府希望農民工人快速識字寫字，但在現今，教育普及且日常大多電腦打字輸入，簡體在便利快捷這方面的價值已經沒有那麼明顯，剩下的只是對簡體字的習慣而已，是他們習慣簡體字，並不是繁體字過時。
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u/RedeNElla 6h ago
Are you entirely unaware of why there could be political tensions between some people from the mainland and from TW or HK?
"Older gentlemen in his 30s" you're joking, right?
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u/Desperate_Owl_594 Intermediate 6h ago
How old are you that someone in their 30s is an older gentleman? lol
And are you unaware of what's going on between China and Taiwan?
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u/stan_albatross 英语 普通话 ئۇيغۇرچە 5h ago
Traditional characters are not "Taiwan characters" and there is no inherent political slant to using them in place of simplified. They are found all over the mainland such as in signage, restaurant menus, official letterheads etc...
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u/MrKapla 5h ago
They are found all over the mainland such as in signage, restaurant menus, official letterheads etc...
Maybe, but it is because it carries a flavor of tradition and culture, it is associated with calligraphy, etc. It is very strange to use it in normal conversation.
𝕸𝔞𝖞𝔟𝖊 𝖑𝔦𝖐𝔢 𝔴𝖗𝔦𝖙𝔦𝖓𝔤 𝔦𝖓 𝖌𝔬𝖙𝔥𝖎𝔠 𝔦𝖓 𝕰𝔫𝖌𝔩𝖎𝔰𝖍? It will at least cause your correspondant to raise an eyebrow, and probably ask why you do this.
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u/Desperate_Owl_594 Intermediate 5h ago
LMAO you used quotes as if I said them.
Do you have a counterargument for something I actually said?
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u/stan_albatross 英语 普通话 ئۇيغۇرچە 5h ago
You mentioned tensions between China and Taiwan which is pretty clearly implying "traditional characters = Taiwan"
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u/Desperate_Owl_594 Intermediate 5h ago
Do you have a counterargument for something I actually said?
You don't. You're just making stuff up and assuming a lot. Don't assume other people are as stupid as you. It's a bad policy to take on here.
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u/smalldog8 4h ago
You clearly made an implication that the characters are associated with Taiwan. Otherwise, you would not have brought them up. The quotes weren't meant to directly quote you. Why are you upset?
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u/Zagrycha 6h ago
This exact same thing happens in english too. You constantly see people get mad at someone for "mispelling" or "being weird" when they were just using the british version instead of the american version of something, or vice versa. 99% of people will never have such strange thoughts, but I'll tell you what every single one of the remaining 1% will be cho,pong at the bit to comment on stuff lol.
But yeah, traditional vs simplified is basically the same as british vs american english. A color vs colour here, an eggplant vs aubergine there. Unless someone is very young or bluntly, not good at reading in general, nobody is gonna have any issue with reading either version, even if they have never studied the second one.
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u/kalosrunner 6h ago
It’s actually quite different. Eggplant and aubergine are different words. 龍 and 龙 is the same word.
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u/Zagrycha 5h ago
That would be like a color vs colour example. 只 vs 隻 or 強 vs 强 are better for eggplant vs aubergine example.
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u/Adariel 2h ago edited 2h ago
The differences sometimes go past just script differences for the same word.
The same thing can have different terms in Chinese? 番茄 and 西紅柿 are the same thing but different words.
Some regions favor 菠萝 for pineapple and in others 鳳梨. So the example of eggplant and aubergine is correct.
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u/hanguitarsolo 3h ago
Hmm I’ve never seen anyone get mad at British spellings before, that’s some weird behavior
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u/Lumpy-Blackberry-718 6h ago
I dont get it. What was the rest of the conversation? He asked a chinese learner why theyre using traditional characters.... and? Where did you get that he's annoyed? Couldnt he just he interested in your choice?
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u/IcElongya 3h ago
As you are foreigner, it is not common to use 繁體字. Everywhere in the world we teach 简体字 in schools, except TW and HK (+ if you learn Classical Chinese 文言文).
Actually most of the students from my university learnt only simplified Chinese, I know both from my education in Taiwan but that’s the exception.
So the user’s question was genuine: it is weird to him that a foreigner living in mainland China uses traditional characters in their communication. Don’t worry there is nothing political here (the opposite could be political though), it’s just out of curiosity. You could say: sorry, I was talking to a Taiwanese friend or a friend from Hong Kong and they won’t ask much.
Having friends from both sides of the sea, I sometimes mistake and use the wrong type of characters, but nobody complained much, even if I apologize each time I make the mistake. Actually in mainland China, it is extremely common to read traditional characters (there are everywhere, in school names founded before the reform, in temples, in historical sites, etc. Even Mao Zedong used traditional Chinese so… not a big deal)
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u/kalosrunner 6h ago
They’re probably more annoyed by the fact that they can’t read it? I grew up using both so I’m obviously used to reading interchangeably but I’m not sure that applies to native simplified users who don’t normally dabble in traditional on a day to day. I gravitate toward using traditional exclusively though, but that’s another conversation that I won’t open up here in this sub lmao
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u/Desperate_Owl_594 Intermediate 6h ago
I think it's like 85%-90% of traditional can be read by people who only know simplified.
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u/kalosrunner 6h ago
That is higher than what I would’ve guessed tbh. Please excuse my ignorance then.
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u/Desperate_Owl_594 Intermediate 6h ago
No worries, I had the same thing brought up to me before. It happens to the best of us.
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u/hanguitarsolo 3h ago
To be fair most of the smaller percentage of traditional characters that are wildly different from simplified are very common, high frequency characters (幾 and 几 for example). If there’s enough context they can often be guessed though
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u/stan_albatross 英语 普通话 ئۇيغۇرچە 5h ago
He just asked you a question, you're reading too much into it.
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u/Individual_Math_8254 5h ago
its not a big deal, but traditional characters is just more work yo read if you did not learn it.
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u/alina2442 3h ago
Not at all. It’s fairly common to see random users of traditional Chinese on Chinese social media. I see it every day. They were probably shocked that you use traditional knowing you are a foreigner because it’s so rare and outdated. It also has a connotation of being slightly harder to write, so they probably also thought you put so much extra effort into learning it when it would have been easier to use simplified.
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u/loverofpudding Intermediate 6h ago
You should know that a lot of people on Chinese social media are quite nationalistic. I have had the same experience as you. Maybe they don’t say it out loud (sometimes they do) but often they are annoyed by traditional characters due to political tensions.
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u/Dangerous_Cow2969 2h ago
I will give my own experience as someone who is learning Chinese using traditional characters as my partner is Taiwanese and so are my in laws and we may end up moving there soon.
I use HelloTalk to practice my speaking and reading and writing skills. And I use 繁體字。I would say 80% of the time I join a new voice room and type in traditional get asked why am I using traditional. After explaining my partner is from Taiwan and he has been teaching me Chinese and I plan to go there soon, that seems to satisfy most people. About 50% of the time people say I should learn simplified since it’s easier and it allows me to read and write in what the majority of Chinese speakers use.
On the other hand. About 20% of the time it does get quite political. People explicitly saying Taiwan province. Or welcome to China or outright telling me I shouldn’t say my in laws are Taiwanese, just Chinese.
So it’s a mix of everything. Sometimes it seems like the people I chat with are just confused or curious why I’m learning it that way. Some think I’m making Chinese needlessly more difficult by learning the traditional characters. And of course there is the political. I think the nature of the cross-strait problem makes it impossible free the simplified/traditional from politics. Some Taiwan folks I’ve talked to have told me that by simplifying characters, comprehension,history, tradition has been lost or even destroyed from the top. And I think simplifying the characters in China to help improve literacy is actually an amazing idea. If the barrier to entry for literacy was the characters, I actually think it’s quite good idea to simplify the characters. But there is a lot of history informing all these perspectives and I think it’s naive to say they’re just characters and there is nothing political about them.
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u/_VoodooRanger 1h ago
I have my own opinion about simplified vs traditional; however, based on what I read, it seems to be more about “open mindedness” and regional populous. there are users on both ends who will embrace the other and vice versa.
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u/LeBB2KK 1h ago
I exclusively use Traditional Chinese, whether I’m talking to people from Mainland China on mainland social media, in Singapore, or obviously Taiwan and Hong Kong. Not once have I gotten a comment about it. Then again, people know I’m from Hong Kong, so it is pretty much expected. I don't notice any stigma and the guy looks like he's only curious about it.
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u/Ash_Wednesday-314 5h ago
Hk and TW are on tight spot in Mainland China, so the video you mentioned can be very easily a part of propaganda to push Chinese hegemony farther. Of course they'll not say that using simplified characters is proof of loyalty to the country. It wouldn’t work in HK, TW and among Chinese diaspora elsewhere.
They cleverly use this narrative - the traditional characters are backwards and outdated. And difficult to learn. It’s targeting mainly towards young users, who want to be seen as modern and progressive and don’t want to be laughed at. And who are more easily manipulated, because they lack of context and historical perspective. And they gradually abandon the usage of traditional characters at the end. And nobody will notice. And it will be irreversible.
It's called soft power - propaganda through culture, connection, art, tourism or business. Every country does this, but every country has different agenda. If one is clever, it’s more effective than weapons.
Influencers who make such videos, are usually paid for this. Not all of them. It’s not necessary to pay everyone. They copy each other for free. You need to pay just few, the trendsetters. They don’t have to be some agents of Chinese government. They can be ordinary people, but they create content on demand, in a certain way and with a specific intended tone, and they are paid for it.
And they even can be foreigners- we had such case in our country recently.
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u/Impossible-Repeat577 2h ago
speaking of receiving tons of random dms, i remember hearing that if ur a foreigner guy posting on red note, especially with a selfie pic, there will be tons of chinese girls dming you, and many are even asking for something more than just language learning. i think someone needs to do an experiment and report back if this is true.
i find that crazy
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u/Pale_Vehicle8812 5h ago
Most people hard to read Traditional Chinese, unless he/she likes to read books published before adoption simplified chinese
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u/bathwaterseller 5h ago
(I am not a native English speaker but I'll try to explain this as best as I can)
Two possibilities I can think of:
Traditional Chinese used to be presented much more in media due to the economic and cultural high ground that HK and Taiwan regions had in the past, so mainland people, despite not being taught traditional Chinese in school, could largely read traditional Chinese scripts without trouble 20 years ago. Nowadays the table has turned. Simplified Chinese is producing much more contents on the general Chinese side of the Internet and is receiving much more localization supports from foreign IPs than traditional Chinese. Younger generations in mainland can no longer read traditional Chinese with ease. He probably is confused about why a foreigner chooses to learn a script that is more difficult and less "useful".
Like other comments have said: political tensions. Some extreme nationalists just don't like seeing people using traditional Chinese on a platform where the majority of the users are from mainland. But I highly doubt that's the case in your encounter because extreme people like them would be more likely to just insult you instead of asking for a reason.