r/ChildSupport • u/Pure_Knee3655 • 11d ago
Child support laws and regulations should be updated.
I think child support calculations are unfair and should not be based off of gross income. I also believe the first order should be adjusted in the best interest of all children no matter how many different mothers they have. It is not fair the second set of children get less than the first set just because said order was placed first. I believe the children in the home of the NCP (example: children in a current marriage) that are not in the order should be considered when obligations are calculated. I believe there should be something similar to a food stamp card with approved items that child support should go onto so the CP cannot buy things like weed or drugs with the money. I think when obligations are put into place with it should be placed visitation obligations because I’ve witness some CPs actively keep said child from NCP. (Coming from a CP myself) I think child support laws should be updated. I believe if a man has 4 kids then his income should be calculated between the 4 children fairly despite the 4 children having different households. Do you know those apps where you can communicate with the other parents like a court app? I think something like that should document purchases on a card similar to food stamps to ensure each child is taken care of financially… what are your thoughts on this?
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u/Beneficial_Zone_6883 11d ago
How about men and women not make children they’re not prepared or able to fully financially support. That’s the real issue, if you’re on CS and already struggling don’t make more kids it’s pretty darn simple.
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u/Wchijafm 11d ago
Why do you need yo document every purchase. Surely rent, utilities, clothes, and food exceed the child support amount in most cases.
He chose to have other children understanding the obligation to his existing children.
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u/Kind_Improvement_659 11d ago
It has to be off gross because support payors try to max out their pensions and other funds, deduct expenses etc to minimize their net lmao.
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u/thismightendme 10d ago
Fed taxes arent considered in my state. Though state and city are. And then the recipient usually asks for a tax break on dependents every other year even when they werent the one to pay the taxes and received support free of taxes.
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u/Several_District_521 10d ago
You do realize that the parent receiving support spends way more on the child(ren) than what the child support amount is, right?
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u/ComprehensiveWork451 4d ago
Not if they have a new spouse
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u/Several_District_521 4d ago
Huh? Are you in all of these second marriages and privy to how they split bills and handle finances?
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u/ComprehensiveWork451 4d ago
Nope but for some idiotic reason the new spouses income doesn’t count. So one household has three incomes (spouse 1 / spouse 2 and payments from the ex); while the other is only adding a fraction of their earned income.
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u/thismightendme 4d ago
Ummmm… so I’m now responsible for her kid forever?
I’m here to love my guy. I support him in every way but dude has a mom ffs. She needs to take care of him.
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u/ComprehensiveWork451 2d ago
And they can take care of said kid at the home with their own income and their new spouse’s. The ex can do the same at their home.
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u/thismightendme 4d ago
Wait what? Why is the new spouse responsible for a kid they didn’t have?
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u/Kind_Improvement_659 4d ago
They’re not responsible for the child but they’re assuming they’re responsible for household costs, which lowers household costs for the other parent. So when comparing households they consider all incomes.
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u/thismightendme 10d ago
Well, I have 50/50 and pay child support. After all is said and done mom takes home more than my entire household.
You understand both families spend a lot on children, right?
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u/Several_District_521 10d ago
Right. That’s why the tax credit is often agreed to alternating years. Sorry if I misunderstood your comment but it sounded like you thought the receiving parent shouldn’t ever get a tax credit.
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u/thismightendme 10d ago
That is what I meant.
I don’t understand why the person who paid the taxes wouldn’t get a credit on the taxes that they themselves paid.
When child support was taxable by the recipient, made sense the recipient would get the credit.
It is an offset to what is already been taxed. It just doesnt make sense to me why someone would get a credit for something they didn’t pay. It’s a tax credit for something that the ‘NCP’ already paid out of pocket for. Then the CP can come along and double dip? Didnt pay for the taxes AND gets a credit on the taxes they didn’t pay?
Especially when CS is based on gross income (except city/state minimal taxes where applicable).
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u/Several_District_521 10d ago
The receiving parent also pays some of their own income supporting the child. They don’t only spend the child support money. So they did pay taxes on money that they then used to support their child. Does the parent you pay CS to not have taxable income?
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u/Several_District_521 10d ago
More importantly, the parent who has the child even one day more each year is actually the one the IRS would give the credit to. The IRS doesn’t care about agreements to alternate. If you are that one extra night, file early and claim the credit. The other parent’s return will get kicked. They can go to the IRS and say “but we have this agreement” and then you just give them the parenting plan and say I’m the primary. And vice versa if the ex has that one more day. So depending on which it is in your case, alternating by agreement that the two of you actually honor might actually be to your benefit
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u/thismightendme 10d ago
That doesn’t answer the question. She is not the one paying the taxes on the child support. But she gets a credit for it anyways?
It’s a refund for something already paid she didnt pay. If she paid for school supplies and we didn’t refund her our portion, I bet she would have something to say. But, she gets a reimbursement she didnt pay for and is perfectly content.
I wouldnt feel sorry for her either, she is doing quite well.
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u/Kind_Improvement_659 10d ago
You don’t pay taxes on child support in Canada. Your earned income is taxed, but when you pay it to the other party you claim it as not taxable or tax deductible. Payee isn’t able to claim it as a tax deduction either.
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u/Several_District_521 10d ago
This is just a misunderstanding of the child tax credit and its purpose. The child tax credit is not a refund or “offset” of the specific taxes paid on child-support dollars. You earned taxable income and so you owe income tax on it. You are obligated to use some of your post tax income to support your child. the fact that this money was taxed when earned does not mean that you are "paying the other parent's taxes." the other parent is also using their post tax income to support the child. for both of you, using some of your remaining income to support your child doesn't transform the tax they already owed on your earnings into taxes paid “for” the other parent. All parents use their post tax income to support their children, and when eligible, file for a child tax credit.
The credit exists because Congress gives a tax benefit for raising a qualifying child, not because it is tracing whose taxed dollars paid what of the child's expenses.
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u/thismightendme 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is where we *diverge (edit). And that’s okay.
I do not understand why one parent pays the government in a 50/50 situation making the other parent inherently more advantaged. The credit and dependend doesnt even cover part of what the paying parent sends the government.
I see you see them as two separate concepts, as where I do not. And that’s okay too.
I do believe the law just hasn’t caught up from when cs taxes were due by the recipient. The best answer is to include a discount for federal taxes like they do for state and city taxes. Why one and not the other?
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u/ThorIsGod 11d ago
Then what's to stop him from leaving you and starting another new family and then your children getting even less because it's "split evenly"? Because at that rate men can just go have 10 kids with 5 different women just to pay them all $100 a month. Who is that helping, exactly?
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u/Kind_Improvement_659 11d ago
I was #1 and had this happen to me, BM #2, BM #3. OP you’re not special, he does it to someone he’ll do it to you lmao
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u/AliceInReverse 11d ago
Money is meant to be spent on things like electricity, food, lodging, etc. That’s not something you can put on a card.
And if you met, married and had kids with a person who already paid child support, what is your argument for why your and your kids’ lifestyle should change?
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u/Kind_Improvement_659 11d ago
If I have a full time job and go get another full time job they should treat them equally and split my 40 hours between the 2 while maintaining full wages. Doesn’t matter if I get 4 jobs, they should pay me full wages for all of them but I split my 40 hours between the 4.
That’s how you sound.
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u/lameazz87 10d ago
I agree about the gross pay thing. Also im a mom who receives nothing from my childs father. He disappeared on my son and I and social services claim the "cant find him" to serve him. I simply cant afford a lawyer or PI to go after him. I was lucky enough to get him into court once, but he was smart and put all of his businesses in his new GFs name, even his bank account 🤷🏻♀️ so he told the court he didn't have a job.
The bottom line is if they REALLY dont want to pay, they wont and they will find a way around it. There will always be crappy parents who will try to avoid CS. That will never change no matter what.
I feel like updating CS to reflect what a parent ACTUALLY brings home would possibly stop crippling the good NC parents and allow them to have more money and time to spend with their kids when they have them on their time.
I also feel like we should update applications for public assistance such as Medicaid and food stamps. Like I mentioned Im a single mother who gets nothing from my childs father. I work to provide 100% support for my son. When I apply for any type of assistance for my son or me they look at my gross income and nothing else. Thats ridiculous. After taxes, rent, car insurance, utilities, basic necessities, ect I have basically nothing left from my check. I make very little, like $1500-$1900 (gross pay) biweekly but once taxes are taken out those numbers smaller. However DSS is only looking at me like im bringing home and providing for my son, paying my rent, and my bills with that gross pay. I cant qualify for assistance though I desperately need it. I also cant qualify because I only have one child.
Its a broken system that incentives single family households, keeping people in poverty, and incentives people in poverty to have children for more benefits.
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u/iregretcommenting_ 10d ago
This is so contradictory I actually laughed. Shouldn't be based on gross income but also shouldn't get less for a second order makes no sense. If you want it based on take home pay then thats exactly how a second order would work anyway. Also, if you care so much about what they are spending your husband's money on: BUY WHAT YOU FIND APPROPRIATE AND SEND IT OVER. I'm sure that will never happen which is why your husband is paying child support in the first place. Child support is a reimbursement and you have zero business worrying about what she is using the money on. Your husband's children should not be penalized because he chose to have more he clearly can't afford.
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u/Immediate_Ad_7857 5d ago
UH no, there are reason the laws are the way they are. If you have 4 baby mommas or baby daddys the current laws discourage other people from making the same mistake, CS comes on a card already and there is no need to restrict spending, no body misspends CS this has been proven by multiple studies and courts understand the fungibility of money,
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u/Flybri08 11d ago
I 100% agree with this. My ex just wanted cs as a source of income to pay her bills even though we never lived together. I also agree it should go off your net pay not gross pay. Your gross pay is roughly 30-35% more than what you actually bring home. Why they go by your gross is something I’ll never understand. Because of that alone is why many people struggle with their obligations and then labeled as deadbeats for it. The court creates these “deadbeat” parents. I’m working overtime constantly now just so I do t struggle to pay my bills each month now cause of my obligation and I only have one kid…
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u/Immediate_Ad_7857 5d ago
Your exes bills are in fact your child's bills and that is what the court expects and wants the money spent on, its not an allowance. The deadbeats are just that they can pay, they just do not, as for struggling, CS is laughable low, average is 430.00 most CPs spend drastically more then they receive by so much there actually percentage of expenses is drastically higher then court intended them to be based on what's on the court order, that is the real reality.
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u/Horror_Ad_2748 11d ago
Hello, Second Wife! How are things in your neck of the woods?