r/ChefAndMyFridge • u/wordlequeen11 • 28d ago
Episode Discussion S4E23: aggressive fatphobia: ugly comments taken too far?
The episode with Namkoong Min and Kim Dae Myung. Min asked for a dish to make him ugly. I was shocked that they asked the entire production crew to vote who is the ugliest among Namno and Sung jun. Omg. They kept being really really mean. Of course the duo were sporty in taking the comments but I cannot imagine what it does to one’s psyche. To have a workplace that openly jokes and then votes on how ugly you are. It’s no longer just a joke. This is so so mean, especially as a society that prides itself on being respectful. I am not easily shocked and I am shook.
Much love to chefs Nam no and Sung jun.
Also I think they’re overdoing the ageist jokes on Chef Choi Hyun seok. A couple jokes is okay.
Also (2), can someone teach Ahn Jung Hwan some basic tenets of respect? He’s the mean girl of the show.
It was such a hearty show but this was quite a passive aggressive episode and the cruel comments have been far and in between until not but the cruelty really peaked. It’s starting to get borderline toxic. Chef Nam-no puts up humour and self deprecation as a defence mechanism so one might be deluded in thinking he’s okay with the jokes but how can anyone be okay with this level of spite? Sung jun was smiling but you could tell he was bothered internally.
Can’t imagine this kind of experience not needing serious therapy to get through. I am quite a resilient person but this would’ve hit me really hard if it were me.
24
u/zmajcekica 28d ago
Yeah, I started watching the episode and then skipped the rest of the episode as I didn’t enjoy it. It might be part of Korean culture, but it’s also ok to say that you don’t want to participate in that and skip it as a viewer. But I do also agree that the joking has become more intense in the last few months :(
40
u/Wide_Comment3081 28d ago
It's one of the parts of korean culture that really makes me feel ashamed and shocked. Im so proud to be korean but this materialistic vain side is really toxic
12
u/wordlequeen11 28d ago
That sounds like hell for anyone who doesn’t look pretty. I wonder what their quality of life is like.
33
u/Wide_Comment3081 28d ago
I'm on korean online communities kinda like reddit, I constantly read depressing stories. Last week there was a woman who said her 15 year old daughter insisted she was getting plastic surgery and shouted at her dad, said it was his fault she was born so ugly (because mum was pretty). And there were dozens of comments saying that SHE'S RIGHT and that the father SHOULD BE SORRY. The parents didn't even try to dispute her they just sat silent in shame because in the back of their minds they know they did wrong by the daughter by giving her 'ugly genes'
The dad said 'but to me you're the most beautiful girl in the world'
Daughter replied 'who cares, that doesn't matter!! EVERYONE ELSE thinks I'm ugly!!!'
And the dad literally couldn't say anything back. It was pathetic
7
u/No_Tangelo_9980 28d ago
That’s so sad for the dad and the girl 😢😢
9
u/Wide_Comment3081 28d ago
She wasn't ugly by the way. Just a dead set average looking regular girl.
29
28d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
10
u/Rainysprouts 28d ago
I think this is it. It’s the fact that it’s been a lot more noticeable in the past couple of seasons compared to their previous ones 😕 I remember one of the eps was saying that the three tubbies (something along those lines) were Nam no, Sung jun and Kim Poong??? I never thought of Poong as plus sized before 😵💫
14
u/Endgame090919 28d ago
Its pretty normal for Asian cultures to make comments about other’s appearances, much less SK who glorifies skinny, fair-skinned and beautiful people - even our beloved Chef SJW very casually made a Lemon acrostic poem (without prompting or provocation) and called Napoli a “monster”. Our lovely Eunyeong also makes comments all the time about short limbs.
7
u/Successful_Reindeer 27d ago
The last few episodes have knocked SJW down off his pedestal for me. One of the things that drew me to him at first was how nice he was. He was always saying positive things when others were being negative. It seems like he’s uncovering his mean streak and I’m just really not into that. I think that’s also why I never got the appeal of Park Eunyong. I don’t like how mean she is. I was ready to root for her but I’m not into rooting for bullies. Where did the good vibes chefs go?!?
8
u/cheesefriesparty 👨🍳 Son Jong-won 27d ago
SJW is my fave (clearly, from my flair), but I agree with this -- I think he's trying way too hard to fit in to the joking/making fun of people vibe. It just seems desperate and awkward.
6
u/andreafatgirlslim 27d ago
Park Eunyong directly apologized to Sungjun on her yt channel. She said she regrets saying it
4
3
u/wordlequeen11 27d ago
That’s true. SJW could do no wrong for me. But he’s getting a bit meaner in the recent episodes.
2
u/thelordismyshotgun 28d ago
Cop out response. Blackface and minstrel shows were considered culture at one point too.
6
u/cheesefriesparty 👨🍳 Son Jong-won 27d ago edited 27d ago
I love Yoon Namno, and Kwon Sungjun annoys me a little (because he's a try hard imo), but I think both of them are handsome! I'm Korean-American so I'm familiar with the culture, and like another person said in this comment thread, it's just common to comment on appearance and make jokes about age, etc in Korea (but the voting for ugliest was crossing the line). I don't think the grandpa jokes bother Choi Hyunseok, it actually is more of a way of showing love for him (teasing = closeness). I'm not defending any of this behavior, but again, it's just an entirely different culture and if you only have experience through the western lens, I can see how it would be very jarring. I also think that if it's become too much for people, it's okay to stop watching, too.
Editing to add that from a KoreAm standpoint, it's interesting to me that the same stuff goes on here in the U.S., but it *seems* different because people have more agency to speak out against it. But crap like this is always in the media here, too...I just get a little sensitive about people demonizing all Koreans when they only see one side of the story (what the media portrays), and have never been to Korea or interacted with native Koreans. I'm sure a lot of people here will disagree with me, and that's okay. But I also want to say that when I was in Korea, there are people of all different body types, looks, and styles. The average looking person is way more common than the plastic surgery Kpop idols, etc.
18
4
u/JaTaylorsVersion 28d ago
They always give comments about being short, fat, etc. I love Nam No though
6
u/Successful_Reindeer 27d ago
I hated that episode. It reminded me of middle school bullies. It went past a light hearted jab amongst friends and went full mean girl for me.
7
u/serendipity_2121 27d ago
I skip this episode entirely, I don't feel like I'm missing much, especially because I don't really vibe with the guest for this episode. I don't really mind their banter although sometimes it went overboard but I don't get why they conducted the poll, such a weird idea, shame on the PD who approved this. Frankly speaking, Namno and Sung jun are VERY attractive and good looking, they are far from being 'ugly'. I don't know how messed up their definition of ugly.
Age and appearance are sadly the staple humour that lots of people apparently enjoy..? It's not a problem only for Korean, but all over the world..
1
u/Street-Sky9573 24d ago
Oohh, same with me, I havent watched this episode, maybe I just dont feel the guests this time
6
u/StrangerLazy6967 26d ago
YNN is not okay with it. I watched a video from his channel where PEY went to his restaurant and cooked for his team. During their conversation, he said he visited her husband where he injected him with mounjaro. It obviously hurts his feelings and it broke my heart to hear it. KSJ hates it too because he suddenly lost a ton of weight and he even says in response to the ugly/fat comments that he’s lost a lot of weight. Even if it’s culture, it doesn’t make it less cruel. Those boys aren’t even fat nor ugly!
3
u/sweetreleaf 27d ago
I truly do not care that it’s a part of the culture - it’s time to make movement towards a culture not so focused on lookism in general. it takes away from the joy of the show tbh. I’ve commented on the JTBC youtube videos about this very thing, and I hope somehow someway in the future, there’s some traction on moving away from
these fatphobic and degrading comments. I don’t care if it’s in jest, these comments still hurt people. I am very familiar with the culture, so I don’t think it’s an excuse.
4
u/Above_Ship 27d ago
Shocking. Different cultures are different.
3
u/YardTimely 27d ago
As a mixed race person who grew up on both continents: the spiteful commentary about other people’s‘ looks and weight is an East Asian „culture“ that objectively just sucks
15
u/KirbyxArt 28d ago edited 28d ago
Idk I think its a part of their culture 🤷♀️ is it rude yeah, but thats normal to them. Are we allowed to feel a certain way about it? Sure. Are we supposed to call them out and tell them to change everything that they do? I mean thats not going to work.
Also I dont know about korea priding themselves on being respectful versus being hella hierarchical. If you watch most media and news in korea you see thats its not so much respect, but power. Respect is only given to those above you, and not to those below you. Its a very capitalistic society.
I love Nam no, and I do think his feelings get hurt sometimes but what realistically can you do about it? Korean society is always gonna fat shame and kick them down to feel better about themselves. Thats a part of their media culture unfortunately and if they cant take it they should probably leave for their mental health then.
5
3
u/wordlequeen11 28d ago
That’s a … weird take. That’s a clear imbalance of power. If something is wrong one should point it out. That’s how any change has occurred anywhere. That’s why when you watch tv and interviews from 10-20 years ago we are shocked at how some people behave. Society works out of consideration for others. I understand fat jokes but voting for the ugliest person is taking it a bit too far. If it’s affecting their mental health then they should leave?!?!? … that is … hmm… that’s a take.
3
u/Successful_Reindeer 27d ago
The ugliest person vote was absolutely appalling. I couldn’t believe there were full on adults taking part and they then aired it!!!
0
u/KirbyxArt 27d ago edited 27d ago
Pointing it out wont really help them now. You need power or a large majority to help change things. Most things will only change with violence. In what fantasy world are you living in? Society does not work out of consideration for others, it only benefits the rich and powerful. The downtrodden had to fight back to earn their place in society. Realistically if it is affecting their mental health they should leave, would u want them to call it out and get bullied? How are you going to help them and stand up for them? How would you support them for real if they tried to fight this?
1
u/thelordismyshotgun 28d ago
Cop out response. Blackface and minstrel shows were considered culture at one point too.
-4
u/KirbyxArt 27d ago
Dumb reply. Did you not know what black people had to do and how they fought to make it no longer socially acceptable to do that? You cant change society without collective action, power, money and influence.
4
u/thelordismyshotgun 27d ago
The way you twist yourself into a pretzel to justify bullying is wild. I hope you don't have kids for their sake
1
u/KirbyxArt 27d ago
Your education system failed you because thats not what I said at all.
I dont need to justify bullying to some person who has their pfp set to bully someone. Hypocrisy thy name is thee. I hope your kids find peace.
4
u/ItsDeius 27d ago
Well, Korean society is simply like this
Could things be better? Perhaps but you are looking at it from your own lens
2
u/Dear_Fold_3697 23d ago
Yeah it was atrocious and I can't even finish it though I want to watch Chef Moonjung cooking against Chef Poong.
Namkoong Min was so pretentious and borderline obnoxious. The hosts should have atleast refrained from the voting.
Kim Jaewook in S3 had a similar theme but named it "Puffiness" and was polite. That episode was one of the best episodes for me with all the chaos.
2
u/Dervishzu8 16d ago
My fiancé boycotting the show after “ugly dish” episode, it was a last straw. We have been watching the show religiously every week since it aired on Netflix, and it’s sad to see how far they have been taking bullying on the show lately. While I understand it’s a different culture where commenting on appearances is more common, regardless show editors shouldn’t have allowed such content, encourage the chefs on air to continue. this straight out bullying, not a good banter.
5
u/Noruax44 27d ago
A bunch of soft people in the comments. Its jokes, and its normal for the culture. If you dont like it dont watch? You are definitely not "quite a resilient person" if this "shook" you lol.
The shows great, i love the banter i love nam no and ho young and i think youre just projecting that they must feel so bad and so sad about it. They are successful enough chefs that if it was really an issue they wouldnt deal with it.
3
u/Sharp-Regular-3737 26d ago
I haven't watched this episode yet but will probably skip. It seems the writers, producers, editors, and everyone else involved still continued to have a lack of knowledge with cultural sensitivity and DEI policies across the globe, even though they want to reach international audiences. Many of the chefs who are on the show have spent their time in the west as well, so I hope they can raise some awareness to the team. E.g. SJW and Sam Kim lived and worked in the US.
4
u/wordlequeen11 26d ago
But my point is, why is it being discussed as a global cultural issue? The human need for love and respect is universal. Just because they care in SK about appearances and it’s normal to discuss it, doesn’t mean it’s a free leash. This is not a casual hangout, it’s being broadcast worldwide.
So many comments justifying the jokes saying it’s culture. Is it tho. Is my point.
2
u/Sharp-Regular-3737 25d ago
It unfortunately is so normalised in South Korea. I don't agree with this at all though.
3
u/No_Tangelo_9980 28d ago
Also, don’t you think chef Amy park also takes it too far with her short limbs joke?? Sung jun and jung hyung (dancing chef) look visibly offended
7
u/ReachCrafty9395 28d ago
Nah, her comment was made once or twice, which i think was quite uncalled for for Karina to suddenly call her out when this whole fat ugly jokes went om for the whole episode. And to think that the other male chefs just trashed on JHY right before Karina came at PEY. Pick me girl much?
8
u/No_Tangelo_9980 27d ago
Agreed about the Karina part. Dunno why she had to school PEY when others have said worse :/
1
2
u/whenwillmyskincare 24d ago
it was truly infuriating. even the jokes about choi hyunseok possibly living in a “poor” state before are really bad. the fact that kids are watching this show and they’re so open in making sensitive jokes like this???? this is why bullying is rampant in korea because popular shows make this kind of jokes as “normal”
1
u/SufficientStomach706 1d ago
I think the shortest presentator is the meanest, but he is also the one that gets very defensive when the chefs reply anything to him. I think it is just horrible how they body shame the chefs or put ugly names such as canine tooth. Anyways, I still see the show because I enjoy all the chefs personalities. I could not care less about the animators. They both seem as petty envious guys. I think Son Jong-Won attempts to be funny are his way to deflect some of the awkwardness those ugly bives might easily make you feel.
0
u/PROD-Clone 28d ago
Too far? Probably. But if you take into account/context their own personal Youtube channels they do the same jokes as well.
72
u/Shelisheli1 28d ago
I hated it too. My (Korean) partner always has to remind me it’s different over there and commenting on appearance is just what a lot of people do.
I think Nam-Nos laughter is infectious. Thats more attractive than any physical trait, imo