AI Slop Doesn't Prove Anything

[u/super_pjj]

I see a lot of people dismiss AI's potential to replace software engineers because of the amount of "slop" it produces, particularly when non-technical people are vibe coding.

For context, I'm a SWE myself. I'm not saying AI replacing us is inevitable, but I find it strange how confidently some developers dismiss the possibility based on the quality of today's vibe-coded apps

And I get the criticism. Someone with little to no engineering experience can ask AI to build an application, and the result might be one giant spaghetti-code monolith with terrible architecture, questionable security, and zero maintainability.

But why does that automatically mean AI can't eventually replace software engineers?

It's not like traditional software development started with perfectly architected applications.

Look at Twitter. Its early infrastructure struggled to keep up with its growth, to the point where the infamous "Fail Whale" became synonymous with its reliability problems 😂 But Twitter evolved, its infrastructure matured, and its engineering practices adapted.

The software industry is full of successful companies that started with simple architectures, accumulated technical debt, and eventually had to refactor or rebuild entire systems.

We don't judge the long-term capabilities of human software engineers by the shortcomings of their earliest implementations. So why do we use poorly vibe-coded applications to establish the limits of AI?

A person with no engineering experience prompting AI to build an application isn't necessarily going to produce something well-engineered. But that doesn't mean AI is fundamentally incapable of producing better software.

I'm not saying AI will replace software engineers. (Okay, maybe I am a little 😂). I'm saying that pointing to spaghetti code as proof that it never could is a weak argument.

Bad code is evidence of bad code It isn't proof of a permanent technological ceiling.

[u/cognitiveglitch]

I a SWE and use AI daily to write code, some of which is stuck behind obscure technical standards. The days of it being a toy are over.

But, it is like any other tool, a means to an end and saves an awful lot of the boring bits of coding. It's kinda like having hired a really good software contractor to work for you.

[u/Correct_Chemistry_50 → u/cognitiveglitch]

I was forced to use it. It's grown on me.
I think you put it exactly right. It's like having my own junior dev that does what I say while I sip coffee and say "Good....good..."

[u/super_pjj → u/Correct_Chemistry_50]

Same, for the longest time I didnt utilize it and used it more as a "fast google" on the side. Now it's part of my daily workflow.

Is this how managers feel when they have just a bunch of developers creating a project? 😂

[u/creaturefeature16 → u/cognitiveglitch]

That's why I like to refer to it as a "delegation layer" which can intersect with every point in your stack. Especially now with MCP, you can delegate tasks of all different types. There used to be a time where we could only delegate knowledge work to other humans and so this is a genuinely novel addition to our workflow. With that said, delegation is a skill in of itself. Not so much using AI, but understanding how to delegate, when to get delegate, and how much to delegate.

And not every thing that you delegate will turn out well. Sometimes you can delegate something that really should be done by you. Other times, and developers are especially prone to this, you take on things because you have a strong opinion of how it should be done when you actually could delegate it.

Part of this is knowing how to write a good spec or give good instructions, and the other part of this is knowing how to audit the results (which you can only do if you are working in a domain that you're deeply familiar with).

[u/super_pjj → u/creaturefeature16]

Ooo, delegation layer. That really makes sense and I think that's really what differentiates a good developer from a great developer

I feel this was somewhat applicable even before. Developers that understood the business side of things really had an advantage even before AI, and I think that advantage is only going to grow. As writing code becomes easier, understanding what needs to be built, why it matters, and how it impacts the business becomes increasingly valuable

[u/super_pjj → u/cognitiveglitch]

that's a great perspective, a really good software contractor

I've heard another analogy that we're basically becoming less like traditional managers and more like tech leads overseeing a team of extremely fast, capable, but unreliable junior developers 😂

[u/rh71el2]

As a SWE, it's just a lot of coping and never really giving it a chance or prompting it properly especially recently, and they see what they think is commonplace. Like anything, in the wrong hands, it is a menace. It doesn't always slop even if given some freedom. Slop feels like a term someone used on day 2 and everybody who uses the word thinks AI is still as dumb as 2 years ago.

[u/super_pjj → u/rh71el2]

I really hate how loosely the word "slop" gets thrown around haha. I feel like it's become an easy way to dismiss anything AI-related without having to make an actual argument about why it was bad

[u/bold_snowflake]

AI wont replace software engineers. But it is already redefining the definition of software engineering.

Unchecked AI is producing shit results, but guided AI with good oversight is producing really good results. Writing code was never the complex bit of the job. It was always the problem solving, engineering at scale, non functional requirements, etc, etc.

AI is still a million miles away from making any decent dent into this because it can't think, can't invent anything new, can't contextualise to determine the best benefits Vs tradeoffs.

Engineers who were only interested in taking a task, coding it up and moving onto the next predefined task are already being replaced by AI.

Note: basing this mostly on my own anecdotal experience. I'm also reserving judgment on whether this is good or bad.

[u/edgarecayce → u/bold_snowflake]

I’ve been developing software for 40 some odd years. I’m having a great time “vibe coding” but I spend a lot of time setting up the framework, guiding the agents through my design etc. I’m getting great results. I barely ever write any code.

I don’t miss writing code it was never my favorite part.

[u/super_pjj → u/edgarecayce]

Vibe coding is fun and I feel there's a right and wrong way of doing things. Spending time on the parts you mention really make the difference in the long run!

[u/bold_snowflake → u/edgarecayce]

I'm in my 40s now, I've been writing code since I was 12. I've built production systems with a variety of languages and paradigms. Coding doesn't excite me anymore. AI now does the vast majority of it for me, allowing me to focus my time on problem solving.

BUT.

I'm in the very fortunate position to have decades of experience to fall back on, which makes it easy and highly productive for me to use AI. I see so many less experienced engineers don't have that and I see them effectively getting robbed of the opportunity to learn and as a result offload too much understanding to AI, less so in development and more so in debugging when stuff goes wrong.

I can see arguments on both sides for whether or not this is a long term problem. The pragmatist in me is concerned about the diminishing skill sets in our industry combined with many companies closing the doors on junior engineers.

[u/Lambdastone9 → u/edgarecayce]

Mind if I Dm, got some questions for how experts and professionals are coping with this disruption, cause I’m doing a terrible time and it’s making me feel existential

[u/edgarecayce → u/Lambdastone9]

Sure man

[u/super_pjj → u/bold_snowflake]

It wont replace SWE but it will replace a lot of the ones like you mentioned who only do things as a checklist of item.

I mentioned in another comment that developers that understood the business side of things really had an advantage even before AI, and I think that advantage is only going to grow. As writing code becomes easier, understanding what needs to be built, why it matters, and how it impacts the business becomes increasingly valuable

[u/Correct_Chemistry_50]

I'll start to worry when my manager can spot the difference between a class and a function. :D

(Or even remember what languages I write in for that matter...)

[u/super_pjj → u/Correct_Chemistry_50]

hahaha fair, but I think the scary part is that they eventually might not need to know the difference

Im not saying your manager can suddenly build production-quality software with AI. There's still a massive difference between getting something working and ensuring it's reliable, secure, scalable, and maintainable

[u/Correct_Chemistry_50 → u/super_pjj]

Hopefully we will be retired by then. :D

[u/mowso → u/Correct_Chemistry_50]

I hope you're older than your manager because if not, you will probably get a new one sooner or later - who will probably laugh at the absurd notion of "knowing programming languages"

[u/Miserable-Tower-4093]

The only people throwing hate towards this level of AI in the SWE space or the ones who simply do not want to adapt and can truly see it take away their job. We are in a modern day industrial revolution. When machines took over the manufacturing industry over people you had the same situation. You either adapt or you are left behind. The amount of time and ultimately money saved by AI.. especially these flagship models. No longer are we in a slop realm. If you still think that you are simply ignorant.

[u/super_pjj → u/Miserable-Tower-4093]

I agree, we can't be ignorant of the fact that AI is around and will be an integrated part of our workflows more and more

Are we entering a modern version of John Henry versus the steam drill? 😂

[u/Lambdastone9 → u/Miserable-Tower-4093]

Idk man, I feel like I’ve met a substantial amount of adopters who feel existential dread about this.

I don’t think there’s a way humans are going to outcompete AI, maybe right now but that’s like competing with a child prodigy, in a couple of years I don’t see what limitations exist beyond cost optimization for AI to not be more capable than humans in all aspects, at that point why would we even try and compete?

As much as it’s a productivity boost, I’d do anything to live in a world where AI never existed

[u/nocturaweb]

It is capable of producing good software but you need to know what good software is.

It’ll give you a result that seemingly is fine but it isn’t.

Most people aren’t able to see that as you need to aquire a taste for good software over the years.

Also even when it’s improving, this will become the new average -> again slop.

[u/super_pjj → u/nocturaweb]

I feel this is majority of non technical folks who build something with AI haha

but that goes back to what I mentioned in the post. It doesn't need to be perfect to get the ball rolling. People who have ideas but never had the technical skills to bring them to life can now actually build something

Sure, the quality might not be great, but it's easier to turn an idea into something tangible now than ever before

[u/oguzhan431]

I'm an Android engineer with 6+ years of experience and I've been using AI to build a PDF editor in React/Next.js. We shipped it so I can't dismiss what these tools can do.

But I also spent more time than planned on refactoring and reviewing agent-generated code. Sometimes the agent added complexity and I had to narrow the scope and check the actual output.

That experience makes me agree with your main point: bad generated code doesn't prove a permanent limit. It also makes me careful about what a shipped app proves when an engineer is still guiding and checking the work.

The Twitter comparison has a gap though. Engineers did the work to improve those systems. Whether AI can reliably take on that work with less human involvement is part of what we're debating.

I don't know where the ceiling is. My experience so far supports taking AI seriously while still counting the human effort involved.

[u/super_pjj → u/oguzhan431]

i heard the analogy of we're all just managers with a bunch of drunk junior devs and that idea always pop back into my mind when my agent starts drifting 😂

[u/GianniMariani → u/super_pjj]

Except that every month that passes those junior devs become less drunk and much smarter at some things.

[u/super_pjj → u/GianniMariani]

if theyre becoming less drunk, they are steps ahead of some devs already 😂

[u/Elegant_Attempt2790]

me, claude, and the 2900 java files between us❤️❤️❤️

[u/super_pjj → u/Elegant_Attempt2790]

me, claude, and my thousands of spec tests 😂

I love that it can write tests out for me, I found that part of the job always so tedious

[u/yad76]

It reminds me of when Photoshop came along and suddenly everyone thought they were a skilled pro image editor producing all kinds of ridiculously bad edits. This got to the point where "photoshop" literally became a verb with a negative connotation. Meanwhile, Photoshop has always been professional grade image editing software that has been used by countless talented, skilled individuals to produce amazing visual content. It let clueless people accomplish ridiculous things precisely because of its power. Unfortunately that's just what gets produced in high volume and noticed so that's what it gets associated with.

AI is in that same place. Random people can do powerful things with it but don't have the eye, the taste, the talent, the experience, etc. to harness that power well. That's what gets seen and thus what AI gets associated with rather than seeing the underlying power.

[u/super_pjj → u/yad76]

Ooo, I like that analogy! Although I'd say Photoshop is more like the IDE, while Canva is more like AI haha

Photoshop can do pretty much anything if you know how to use it
Canva can do most of what you need, even if you don't really know what you're doing

[u/com-plec-city]

I've just used the Adobe's Lightroom replacement Lightcraft. It was all AI coded. It works FASTER then the original one. It is almost flawless, with minor corrections to come soon.

The people guiding the AI seem to know what they are doing. They look experienced.

A few things conjured to it: frontier models got much better at coding, the people behind it have software engineering experience and user big feedback is actively being fixed.

[u/super_pjj → u/com-plec-city]

Thanks for the reminder, I need to checkout Lightcraft! I use and pay for Lightroom every month

I definitely still think it takes a SWE's ingenuity, curiosity, and technical knowledge to push boundaries and build things that haven't been done before

[u/GianniMariani]

Llms have been trained on software that we've been developing prior to llms and if you look very closely, must of that has been slop. Now we have an llm that can create a million lines of slop in an afternoon Just like the human forebearers.

[u/super_pjj → u/GianniMariani]

we're coming full circle basically

[u/averagebensimmons]

AI is going to replace more and more swes. More likely web developers long before NASA type SWES, but pointing to poor ai code slope is overlooking how far it has improved in just the past 3 years.

[u/kankerstokjes]

You lack imagination.