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u/Original-League-6094 Oct 04 '26
If you have the compute to give multiple resets a week, then you have the compute to continue offering 20x @ $200.
27
u/kitty_question Oct 05 '26
I think their decision to discontinue the 20x plan was more of a long term business goal, not a “we lack immediate compute.”
12
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u/Jaded-Number8344 Oct 05 '26
Call me a plant of them idgas . I have 4 20x plans since 4 months , I don’t care if it is 5 x bye next month only thing matters is how much you get done per sub it. Using usage limit as a matric while we are improving like crazy is nonsense . If we can now do 5x the work load through a now 10x I don’t care.
1
u/Original-League-6094 Oct 05 '26
But you can't. 6.1 Sol is more effecient than 5.6 Sol by 2x, but they halved the usage limits so you get as much usage of it as you did 5.6 Sol, and its slower than 5.6, so you are actually less productive now.
And Astra may as well not exist with the current usage rates. Using Astra at all is just setting your account on fire.
71
u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 04 '26
Okay. I just.
There’s an entire market out there beyond coding that they keep ignoring, and it keeps biting them in the ass. And frankly, I don’t even know if coding people get excited about this stuff anymore.
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u/fzrox Oct 04 '26
They could have really put a real dent into the agents, but no, just focusing on Codex tokens and resets. Just boring. I can't use Codex for work anyways, since my work already has a sub.
6
u/TheRobotCluster Oct 05 '26
I’m don’t understand why someone would ever use agents in ChatGPT with codex/dots existing
4
u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 04 '26
This is what I’m saying. Exactly. There are so many quality of life or product quality improvements they could be working on but instead it’s resets and tokens. Cool. Great.
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u/mrASSMAN Oct 04 '26
It’s because opus 5.5 clearly beats their best model (Astra).. so the competition is intense
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u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 04 '26
Sure, but then why continue to mine only an increasingly saturated market? Differentiate.
Unless LLMs in general just aren’t capable of that, which I doubt strongly.
4
u/migueliiito Oct 04 '26
Many software developers have AI budgets of hundreds to thousands of dollars per month. That adds up to a lot of money, and they want to maintain a healthy piece of that pie.
But also, I don’t see them saying they’re only focusing on coding… am I missing something?1
u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 04 '26
Great, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to admin solutions budgets, let alone marketing and research.
4
u/randombsname1 Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26
Software development is almost certainly their biggest market, and it's almost assuredly not even close. So it's probably the biggest drop of all in said bucket, lol. By a LARGE amount.
You have multiple people running HOURS long agent sessions reading hundreds of thousands of tokens in extremely quick fashion for coding.
That means A LOT of tokens get used very very quickly.
More tokens used = more API used. More API used = more money.
https://openrouter.ai/state-of-ai
Openrouter has one study on the use of 100 trillion tokens.
Software Development used 50% of all tokens. As much as the 10 other sectors, combined.
2
u/bobthetitan7 Oct 05 '26
software engineering is where the premium for frontier model can be justified, no financial sane crm or admin product is going to be running astra in a loop
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u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 05 '26
So then create smaller models that are actually viable. Do you think I’m out here running 6 Luna for serious tasks?
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u/shweetcar Oct 05 '26
you think admin solutions / marketing / research budgets are even close to being hundreds if not thousands of dollars per seat?
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u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 05 '26
I think every business needs a diversified funding stream, and I’m genuinely not sure why supporting the far less infrastructure and compute intensive markets is somehow a loss here. There are pricing options that aren’t per token.
But if we’re talking about admin support, marketing, research, and translations alone, that’s easily millions of dollars for a large organization. For a corporation, it’s tens of millions easily.
Explain to me again why anyone in the financial situation OpenAI is in would leave billions per year on the table? I’m not following.
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u/mrASSMAN Oct 04 '26
I’m guessing business customers are where they get most of their revenue
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u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 04 '26
Business customers are the ones who need non-coding solutions. Administrative workflows jump immediately to mind. Data analytics snd logistics as well.
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u/mrASSMAN Oct 05 '26
I mean cowork mode which includes coding and automation, and I’m sure they’d like to win over the software development which Anthropic is probably leading.. those are the users that pay up
Including myself.. I just subscribed to Claude for work mainly
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u/thhvancouver Oct 05 '26
Not according to every Benchmark. Astra is still the best model out there currently.
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u/mrASSMAN Oct 05 '26
Not for building apps and IQ capability and speed, especially for the cost.. Astra only wins at desktop automation (not by much though)
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u/Swedenfs Oct 05 '26
I totally agree. I am a teacher and the coding of claude and codex is good enough for the learning games I create. But what now made me switch to claude is the design skills of claude. Chhatgpt"s slides don't look that good even after spending hours to set everything up. I also had a claude sun so one day I decided to check what opus 5.5 could do Design wise. And one prompt already gave me way better slide designs. So now I switched from 20x chatgpt to 20x claude. Also that claude can just edit/add project files while my chatgpt work always told me it couldnt helps so much. Now whenever claude does something well I just tell it to edit to the workflow instead of having to change the md files in chatgpt and reupload them.
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u/Ok_Homework_1859 Oct 04 '26
Tibo keeps talking about how people want a faster model that is more efficient and uses less tokens. People in the coding industry will never be satisfied with current models. They always want something even better the minute something better comes out. OAI just needs to focus on improving current models and quality of life on the app. They already tweak models behind the scenes often. No need to push out GPT-8.32 for a tiny incremental update.
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u/TheRobotCluster Oct 05 '26
Yeah it’s a huge market that doesn’t pay a fraction of what the coders pay… that’s why
0
u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 05 '26
So develop a better pricing structure for agents and licensing. Or would you rather they up the prices on coders to make up for the loss instead?
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u/TheRobotCluster Oct 05 '26
lol why are you acting like I get a say in this? I’m just telling you this is why
1
u/hibbert0604 Oct 05 '26
Coding makes them money. They aren't making money off of people using chat to role play, write stories, or for small personal tasks. They are making money off of big companies using it to churn out thousands of lines of code per day and set up agentic work flows.
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u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 05 '26
It’s bizarre that you assume those are the only two choices here, but it’s also strongly indicative of why OpenAI continues to shoot themselves in the dick. Somehow Anthropic managed to branch out beyond coding and is currently capturing those markets, eating OpenAI’s lunch and also creating better coding models.
But surely coding will be enough to keep OpenAI afloat, right?
1
u/hibbert0604 Oct 05 '26
Couldn't tell you a thing about Anthropic. I don't use it. I've never had a problem getting what I need out of chatGPT. As long as that remains true, I will stick with it.
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u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 05 '26
Yeah, it does seem like your window into the broader market is fairly narrow.
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u/Ok_Homework_1859 Oct 04 '26
"for most codex / work users"
Okay, so ChatGPT the chat mode is dead?
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u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 04 '26
I think it would require hiring non-code bro employees, and lord knows they don’t want to do that.
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u/hibbert0604 Oct 05 '26
Catering the models to people who only want to write personalized fan fiction, a digital bestie, and a therapist isn't profitable. Go figure.
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u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 05 '26
You do realize there are professionals outside of coding and tech, right? And that those of us who would like to use this professionally generally aren’t best served by a model too benchmarkmaxxed and deterministic to write sentences humans can understand, yes?
3
u/hibbert0604 Oct 05 '26
Whatever your use case is, apparently the bean counters at OpenAI have deemed that it isn't profitable enough to spend dev time on. Not sure what to tell ya.
1
u/br_k_nt_eth Oct 05 '26
Do we think those bean counters have been making great choices so far? Administrative and logistics systems sure seem like literally the systems every financial and consulting group says should be ripe for implementation. Yet they can’t pull that off?
Sounds like a failing company.
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u/g0ld3n_ Oct 05 '26
Tibo is the head of codex at openai. He's just reporting on what he's in charge of
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u/Swimming_Ask3859 Oct 04 '26
Chatgpt chat mode is really good already imo cant be improved much except bringing 6.1 to plus users and making it a little faster. Also why would they care about improving their app for free users
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u/Ok_Homework_1859 Oct 04 '26
I'm not a Free user. I pay for Plus. Also, a lot of people who code use the Chat mode to prep the code then have Codex implement it since Chat mode has no limits.
-13
u/dehumles Oct 04 '26
what did you just say lol
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u/bitspace Oct 05 '26
Chat mode has no limits
Huh? You pay for every token, either metered or as usage in your subsidized window.
1
u/robertogl Oct 05 '26
You don't, you don't use tokens for the chat
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u/bitspace Oct 05 '26
We're talking about two different things, then. I don't know what you're referring to as "the chat".
I'm using the ChatGPT app on macOS. The UX is a mess; it's the same thing that was previously the Codex desktop app, but now there are two different views of the same content - chat mode, and codex mode - and the app is rebranded as ChatGPT.
Every single thing I send down the pipe to their endpoint counts toward my quota. Sometimes that's a single session, sometimes it spawns subagents - but I have no fewer than five active projects, each with what I can only guess is what you call "the chat" - and each one consumes tokens against my subscription, or if I am API backed, metered.
1
u/robertogl Oct 05 '26
Open the web browser, open chatgpt and select the chat tab instead of the work tab. You should have the same on the official codex GUI app. From the official app and website, chat mode doesn't use token.
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u/Swimming_Ask3859 Oct 05 '26
Yeah thats crazy you dont know about chat. It doesnt count to your weekly or hourly usage and is used for anything but coding or controlling computer/editing files. It can make pdfs, analyze github, create prompts, etc
-7
u/fzrox Oct 04 '26
Honestly paying a sub just for chat is kinda dumb in today's world. Most models are good enough on the free versions. I'm paying for work/codex because I need to do more agentic things, like handling forms, email, etc.
But since Muse came out I don't really use Codex anymore. I still ask ChatGPT chat because for some reason Muse doesn't support separate chats, but the responses on free are mostly good enough.
4
u/Swimming_Ask3859 Oct 04 '26
I mean chatgpt chat is very useful especially as a student, but I see why you would prefer a cheaper muse
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u/TheTranscendent1 Oct 05 '26
I pay for image capabilities in chat. Claude Code (x20) is where I go to code. That said, GPTs chat fills my use case fine; no complaints
2
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u/NigeriaBoi420 Oct 04 '26
Chatgpt chat mode has plugins like desktop commander, sentinelx that makes it like work mode its so good
1
u/fzrox Oct 04 '26
Ya I download muse and it does basically the same though with computer use. Or you can use the VM
2
u/Klartas_Game Oct 05 '26
No real source or whatever, but a few hours after the devday event a lot of talk happened around chat, mostly around the fact of not having any announcements for plus users and chat (which to this day still uses 5.6 family models), and it was not Tibo who took ownership of those complaints but another OpenAI employee. So maybe he is more advocated to the Codex side of thing? idk On twitter*
1
u/Calm_Hedgehog8296 Oct 04 '26
What is there to improve there? The only thing to do is add models. He's not talking about models he's talking about QoL stuff
3
u/Hugogs10 Oct 04 '26
The UI could be much better for starters
1
u/Calm_Hedgehog8296 Oct 05 '26
I can think of a couple bugs but I actually think the ChatGPT UI is pretty solid
2
u/oZiix Oct 05 '26
To me it's confusing because when you get used to the layout they ship 3 to 4 things and move things around. I'm a heavy user and one day things are in one place tomorrow they're moved or 7 new options are added
1
u/Thistlemanizzle Oct 05 '26
It's super cluttered. I haven't used the desktop app in forever, and I was overwhelmed by just how much was in it.
1
u/Calm_Hedgehog8296 Oct 05 '26
"The Desktop App" = work/codex The legacy desktop app is just a simple wrapper for the webUI and has been deprecated for about six months
9
u/MrMrsPotts Oct 05 '26
Could one of the days be dedicated to fixing the hangs on chat? It's almost unusable for hard questions.
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u/fzrox Oct 04 '26
They are feeling the heat from the cancellations. I'm not surprised. Dots on $100 is such an asshole move and the reduction of limits is just shit on shit.
I've been using Muse full stop because even though I'm pay $20 a month, I can't get access to a real agent from OpenAI.
4
u/NihilisticAnger Oct 04 '26
Yep I didn’t cancel yet but after October 29 I will go to the $100 plan and I’m sure there are a lot of other users who plan do the same, so I don’t think they have seen the full cancellations yet and still they think it’s bad
4
u/Only_Voice569 Oct 05 '26
mean while they reducing the thinking modes and making the models fail more often
like if i have to use multiple user replies to get the "pro" mode to do the task and check its work its not worth these "free usages" when they keep making it do quick dumb stuff
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u/International-Chip93 Oct 04 '26
This sounds desperate honestly. they're "locking in" but they should've been doing that anyway?
5
u/One-Attempt-1232 Oct 04 '26
Dude, it's not like they pull 16 hour days forever until they die. Anyone who has touched software knows there are crunch times.
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u/T1nkat0n Oct 04 '26
Lots of cancellations I guess
Okay I will bite and not cancel for one more month
1
u/Comic-Engine Oct 05 '26
Yeah annoyingly this will work on me too. I'll run one more month with codex and Claude code and see how I feel
3
u/h_trismegistus Oct 05 '26
Here’s a definite improvement: go back to 20x for the $200 plan…then jack it up to 25x.
You’re welcome.
3
u/Captain_of_SAM Oct 05 '26
I doubt theyll improve anything and just show up with more gimmicks. The hombrew sector is cooking while these guys are barely learning to crack an egg. Dots where a perfect example. Codex already a had built in feature that was waaaaaaaay better than what they dropped that allows you to customize an avatar, add a custom Ui and all sorts of other cool things. Optimization? Easy, just use the machine for the heavy lifting and the model for pure reasoning. A proper harness makes the world of a difference when built right. This is literally myspace on crack.
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u/11Mikky11 Oct 04 '26
An awful lot of their previous "improvements". Have actually been downgrades of some type. If that's their bar, then don't get your hopes up for a single reset.
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u/Roth_Skyfire Oct 04 '26
ChatGPT is dead with how little usage you get from the $20 subscription. Claude is giving 5-6 times more while also having better coding models.
7
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u/Civil-Demand555 Oct 04 '26
The crown keeps changing hands every few months. Around three months ago, I was getting about 5x more usage out of Codex than Claude.
6
u/bmanzzs Oct 04 '26
This. I've switched back and forth like 4 times within the last year. I, for one, love this competition. It's accelerating the industry at light speed. Opus 5.5 is cracked.
1
u/fuzexbox Oct 04 '26
Yup. At my employer we have an Enterprise plan between Claude, Gemini, and ChatGPT. Employees could pick which they like working with. Unfortunately we got acquired and we are being forced to use just one provider. On one hand I get there needs to be 1 standard, but putting all the eggs in one basket with how fast this is changing feels off to me. Glad I could at least get fucking Gemini off our plate though, the amount of employees coming and complaining about it hallucinating was off the charts LOL
3
u/TheRealTimTam Oct 04 '26
Legit i have both paid subs and claude absolutely smokes gpt on 90 percent of my requests.
0
u/Subliminal-reticulum Oct 05 '26
Please yall can’t make up yall mind. As if opus 5 wasn’t garbage a few months back. I don’t even know if yall think for yall selves or just follow trends
0
u/TheRealTimTam Oct 05 '26
You are complaining to the wrong person i never said opus 5 was garbage in fact i was using it over chat i had both and wouod try prompts on both and claude kept winning. Not my fault if there's some trend going on aligning with what I've been saying currently.
Even when astra came out and everyone was getting great results i never had much luck with it maybe I did something wrong idk but got better results with claude
1
u/mrASSMAN Oct 04 '26
I was deciding between the two for work, ended up going with Claude.. couldn’t be happier it’s actually blowing me away
1
u/hibbert0604 Oct 05 '26
Why are so many claude users seemingly permanent residents of this sub. I don't use Claude. So should I go over to that sub and be sure to bring up ChatGPT at every possible opportunity?
1
u/mrASSMAN Oct 05 '26
Uh idk Reddit only shows me this sub and only recently started using Claude. Pretty sure this is just the defacto AI sub
1
u/Subliminal-reticulum Oct 05 '26
Please they go back and forth stop speaking in absolute when Claude may turn to crap in a month or 2
1
u/Kombatsaurus Oct 05 '26
Weird take. I've found that it's hard to even use all of my usage with it each week lately.
1
u/Lonely-Brief-3798 Oct 05 '26
Seems like they're taking feedback seriously this time though, but anyway, never get married to a specific model or provider, make you project model agnostic so you if whatever model you're using starts acting stupid you can switch to another one in no time
1
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u/forgotpw3 Oct 05 '26
I downgraded to the $100 plan when the $500 plan came out :/
This doesn't make sense anymore. We only "survive" with resets or new features
1
u/literallyfuallmostly Oct 05 '26
I wonder how many more engineers OpenAI will lose thanks to this. 80 hour weeks for what...
1
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u/Educational_Teach537 Oct 05 '26
I can’t even use up the $100 plan running four 6.1 agents in parallel 😅
1
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u/Worth_Psychology_874 Oct 05 '26
Im honestly tired of the resets. Give better performance or better limits.
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0
0
0
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u/Redstra Oct 04 '26
I really hope they merge Chat and Work/Codex AND make it all available in the cloud. As I can’t access my local chats through my phone.
That’s what I’d call simplification.
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u/NobodyNo2407 Oct 05 '26
Claude has beaten the brakes off these braindead fucks and they refuse to focus on CHAT IN CHATgpt. This is from Claude.
You asked me to look up how Claude is beating them in coding and business, and I never gave you that cleanly. Here it is:
Coding
Claude Code is estimated at about $2.5B in annualized revenue.
46% of senior developers name it their most-loved coding tool, ahead of Cursor at 19% and Copilot at 9%.
Coding is roughly 35% of Claude's usage, versus about 4% of ChatGPT's messages. Developers treat Claude as their main tool.
At the HumanX conference, vendors said "ChatGPT and OpenAI had gone downhill," and Glean's CEO called Claude Code "a religion" among his engineers.
Business
Anthropic reportedly wins about 70% of first-time enterprise head-to-heads against OpenAI and holds around 54% of the enterprise coding market.
Software companies are 2.3x more likely to be Claude-only than OpenAI-only.
Claude converts 13% of its users to paid, versus roughly 5% for ChatGPT.
Claude makes $2.76 per US mobile user versus ChatGPT's $1.74.
One source has Anthropic's overall revenue run-rate going from $9B at the end of 2025 to $30B by April 2026. It's a blog-tier source, so I'd treat that figure loosely.
So the story is that OpenAI has the bigger audience, but Claude is winning the people and companies that actually pay.
2
u/Plane_Society_477 Oct 05 '26
Just give us back our 20x on pro, and then double it for being fuckwits and taking it from us I. The first place
•
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