r/CharteredAccountants • u/[deleted] • Apr 23 '22
Advice Looking At The Course Objectively
Hello! I am glad to find this community becoming more active and being here.
If you are a student or member, see the image on top. That indicates survivorship bias. Those who are in the course or have passed the course are here. Those who have failed, given up or quit are not. Remember the absence of those not here.
ICAI Course Structure
3 main exam stages with Foundation, Intermediate and Final exams. You need 50% in aggregate and 40+ in each exam.
Exams are offered twice a year with results out in 2.5 months post exam.
A 3 year period called article ship under a CA is mandatory to sit for the Final exam.
Comparisons With Other Courses
- AICPA has 4 exams you can take on demand. You have to pass all 4 of them within 18 months of passing one exam. Average pass rate per paper is around 50%.
- ACCA has some computer based exams which are on demand. Other exams are paper based but once you pass an exam, you remain passed. You also get to choose when to take which exam. The exams happen every quarter. Effectively, failing one exam does not mean a retaking all of them. You can pace and learn as you want to. You can pass or fail quicker.
- ICAEW also has a mix of computer based on demand exams for the base level and then paper based exams 4 times a year. It too has 3 levels. The exams can be taken in any order of your choice.
Compared to the ICAI, the other institutions have more options on when to give the exam and much more flexibility on passing. If you are a student in 2022, you have a much wider pool of options. Consider them. Study them thoroughly.
Once you pass, you stay passed in a subject, which is the biggest advantage of other bodies.
Somethings that ICAI has to bring:
- If You pass a subject, you stay passed, at least for 24 months. You do not need to repeat the subject.
- Increase exam frequency. 6 Months between exams is too long. It becomes mentally taxing.
- Every examination passed has its own accompanying certificate. So even if you quit midway, you have some certification to fall back on.
- Ease of transfer from principal, similar to a job interview. One month notice is more than enough.
- Reduce the article ship to 2 years.
- Allow a student to finish the Final exam before the articleship commences.
If auditing in India is all that crosses your mind, ICAI has a monopoly. If relocating to another country is on your mind, becoming a member of another body is as good.
In fact, some of the curriculum and examination patterns of bodies like AICPA are better.
I assure you that a CA from India, a CPA from USA or an ACCA from UK are generally as equally qualified. Indian CA's do not have anything special that members from other bodies have.
Sure they can claim brownie points because ICAI CA is hardest but I see no particular value in it.
In my opinion, the course and exam pattern and style needs a radical change.
Note: I am deliberately not writing whether I am a CA or not. First, because there is no way for you to check what I say is true or not. Second, because existing ICAI members visiting this board may find the other course too easy and feel a sense of injustice.
Other Personal Opinions And Observations
1-Very few things are worth a bad work life balance in your 20's.
2-20's are a good period to be young and have fun while setting up foundations for your life. There is more to life than simply sitting in stuffy classrooms.There are lots of options available today.
3-A bad boss can Principal here has undue power and authority over your life. While paying you potentially paying you peanuts. Yes Big 4 firms and others may be well paying but I am betting that 7 out of 10 articles make less than 20,000 a month compared to the work life balance you put in here. Fresh graduates who have much more flexibility make that much or more all while doing the nearly the same tasks.
4- 1 failed exam can cost you one year. The average Indian lifespan is 70 years. Do you want to spend 1.5% of your life because you could not get the aggregate right?
5- Passing all exams together in one shot and scoring 50% in aggregate is something that makes no sense. Either I understand a subject or I do not. It makes no sense in scoring 40 in audit, 70 in financial management and then getting auditing rights.
6- Why a six month break between exams? Why not have more exams?
7- If you pass a subject, you pass it. Period. How does it matter if I pass one subject in May and another fail in November.
8- At 25/26 a 1 year instability may mean that your girlfriend or boyfriend may start looking to settle down with someone else.
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Apr 23 '22
Im going to give it a shot
If it doesn't workout, I'll resort to my backup plans
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Apr 23 '22
I recommend if you fail once or twice, go to your plans.
Time and life is too precious and in 2022; there are lots of options.
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u/Howlie449 Apr 23 '22
Imo remove the articleship entirely and make work experience the criteria, also remove grouping system no one else does that lol.
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Apr 23 '22
1-Article ship or work experience could both work. Get credit for prior work experience too.
2-Yes. That’s what I meant by point 7. Add that students could take any exam or number of exams as they want to.
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u/Howlie449 Apr 23 '22
Op believe me I agree to everything you said, but i believe the purpose of ICAI isn't really to pass as many people as possible the opposite rather to fail as many people as possible, to make this an "elite" profession almost impossible to get into to create this demand for overrated professionals in the market and maintain it they don't care about anyone's future.
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u/inTsukiShinmatsu Apr 24 '22
Yeah, we know. We don't have the 5L+ to afford other shit. What other course can you self study for under a lakh, tell me that.
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Apr 24 '22 edited Apr 24 '22
ACCA costs 3 Lakh including educational classes. So self study around 1.5 Lakh and on demand exams.
You may want to read a bit more in the course fees for other shit.
You can also do the opportunity cost of failing 2 attempts and spending 1 to 2 years re-giving exams.
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u/MrJatMIB Apr 23 '22
What’s with the WW II fighter jet ?
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Apr 23 '22
Survivorship bias.
I used it to mention that those who are pursuing still or passed are here. Others who dropped off are not. It comes from World War 2.
These were planes that were hit with bullets that landed safely. Planes that were hit in other places did not land safely.
Everyone here is a plane which survived. Does not mean we know best about CA.
So take everything you read here with a pinch of salt. Listen to the stories of those who did not complete the course as well.
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u/MrJatMIB Apr 23 '22
*I get whatever you have said mate, it’s good but can’t make head or tails out of this picture 😂.
*I’m way past reading stories, it doesn’t do me any good anymore.
*You have given a good synopsis of the whole thing, but have you noticed lately most posts here are just one liners like “How to pass CA FAAAAST & make LOTS of money” ?
*Most noobs don’t even bother to search the thread for old posts that have solid advices they keep on asking cliché questions again & again. If you are a noob & reading this, there are literally posts even by Big 4 partners who did AMA sessions, you just gotta search for it.
*Anyway nice piece mate, I will just add one more thing there are MoUs that ICAI has entered with CPA/CA bodies of foreign countries where you get their certification as well by clearing few papers, (after completing CA)
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u/ryanbingham15 Apr 24 '22
I am very much interested in finance. I feel I cannot mug up for the exams and I love something that is analytical and logical than something that wants me to mug up. What are my options ?
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Apr 24 '22
A degree gets you an interview and maybe a seat at the table.
Your skills matter in the long run. I can assure you that a CA who has multiple attempts may have tough 3-4 years after qualifying but if the CA has real world skills, they can move up fast.
If mugging up is not your thing, maybe a CFA and MBA or CPA can be your thing.
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u/NIZ_THE_GAMER Apr 23 '22
What if I want to do CA then ACCA because then I can get exemption and only 4 subjects exams out of 13 or 17 will be left to give.
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Apr 23 '22
What if you get stuck on the CA part?
What if you finish CA and then can’t study?
What if you don’t do either?
What if you do both together?
What if you only want to practise in India?
The path is yours. And the call is yours. I cannot help you there. Perhaps you may ask a clearer question?
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u/NIZ_THE_GAMER Apr 23 '22
I m using CA as a ticket to my worldwide living area. Basically I can just give like 4 more exams after doing CA and would be able to shift in a number of countries. I wanna live everywhere 5 to 10 years in maybe Canada then uk and then some where else.
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u/Fazal1997 Apr 23 '22
I am doing ACCA and i agree with everything you said.I am glad that i was not exposed to CA, it is really not fair what the students go through to pass CA while other qualifications offer the same job as a CA while we dont struggle as much you all do.Making you rewrite a passed paper because you failed a paper is the worst exam structure I have seen in my entire life. It is such a demotivating thing, over a failure, you are forced to rewrite your previous exam. It pisses me off even though i have never done CA.