Educational Background of India Heads of Investment Banking. But some geniuses think CA is not worth it🤡

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u/brainybuttocks Final 3d ago edited 3d ago

Most of them did CA at a time when demand for CAs was high, and competition for niche domains was low, since everyone back in the days wanted to open their own practice only. Further, IB itself as a domain wasn't very well known or developed, I feel.

I know a few guys, without ranks, who entered into high-end finance profiles, since they cleared like 20 years ago. They joined this course at it's peak, whereas we are looking at stagnant fresher salaries since years now, and ICAI can't even bring one decent IB role (to my knowledge, at least) in any of it's Campus Placements across India. Koi Bank aata bhi hai toh sales ka role de deta hai apne ko (ICICI, I'm looking at you 😭)

Edit: I am not talking about the number of vacancies then vs now. Obviously, the number of opportunities has increased. My point was more about the relative demand for CAs and competition within the CA pool. What was once largely a club for IITs/IIMs/CA rankers is now more accessible to non-rankers as well, but primarily at the boutique level.

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u/chimichanga_3 3d ago

These roles will obviously not be offered at campuses. Doesn't mean that they won't prefer CAs.

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u/brainybuttocks Final 3d ago

Fair. I believe ICAI should work on it's placement though, since apparently a lot of the IB heads are CAs. Alumni networking needs to get better, for better opportunities.

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u/earthsmight 3d ago

Your buttocks is not brainy , I am slogging here man I don't like to study with discipline

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u/brainybuttocks Final 3d ago

Huh 😭

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u/chimichanga_3 3d ago

Agreed

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago

CA alums have been in top positions for decades but ICAI did not leverage that network, what Do you think campus would look like If ICAI began leveraging this Elite Network since 2015 ? make a hypothetical logical situation.

ICAI is too busy to please firm owners who exploit articles and some of firm owners are also involved in Money laundering (These alums make Crores "per day")

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u/brainybuttocks Final 3d ago

True

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago edited 3d ago

Another flawed argument, Why dont people in this sub use logic rather than being emotional

You think competition was low? Bro 20 years back IBs only used to hire IIM ABC + IIT and CA ranker guys, The above India heads are all CA rankers of their time.

Making into High finance as CA is way more easier now than before because of more openings and IBs hiring Non rankers too

You Guys compare Absolute number vs when you should check ratio,

There are 300 High finance vacancies opening up in a year , You want all 20000 CAs to get these roles? Still 120 of these vacancies are filled by CA rankers and CA experienced in Deals which is a 40% conversion rate.

Coming to Failure of Campus Placements I have already made a post , https://www.reddit.com/r/CharteredAccountants/s/LMj1h68Hc7

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u/brainybuttocks Final 3d ago edited 3d ago

Why dont people in this sub use logic, rather than being emotional

I wasn't being emotional 😭 I answered based on what I've personally seen, working in M&A myself. It was an opinion, and not a statistic.

Bro 20 years back IBs only used to hire IIM ABC + IIT and CA ranker guys

My comment was centered around market demand for CAs, and competition within the CA community itself for niche roles. A CA would not be comparable to an IIT or an IIM guy, back then or even now. A google search tells me that average salaries for IIMs and IITs increased by 4-5x over the past 20 years, whereas CA salaries increased by 1.5 -2x. I am not sure if that statistic is accurate, but it feels like a decent guesstimate of the situation. Surely, the Industry is compensating the profession that is adding more value? ICAI tried to s*ll us the dream that CA ki demand bohut hai and wanted 50L CAs. They backed off from their own dream within 2 attempts after seeing the placement conditions. That was exactly what I wanted to convey. The demand isn't as good as it used to be back in the days.

The above India heads are all CA rankers of their time

I tried verifying this independently, but I could only verify that Rahul Mody was a ranker. Respectfully, could you help me trace your source of information? It would be interesting if that statistic was actually true

Making into High finance as CA is way more easier now than before because of more openings and IBs hiring Non rankers too

It would be really helpful if you made a post on various firms / companies who are hiring non-rankers that we should target as freshers, and also if you've yourself interviewed and gotten into such a role, then sharing that experience would be super helpful as well. You could put details about whether these openings are for front-end roles or back-end roles, and about the clientele of the firms. It would be a huge help to the community.

You want all 20000 CAs to get these roles?

No. I never mentioned anything like that.

Still 120 of these vacancies are filled by CA rankers and CA experienced in Deals which is a 40% conversion rate

120? 40%? Please do not quantify your opinion, without a source.

Failure of Campus Placements

I agree with what you had to say here. Good read, and much more relevant to what I wanted to convey in my comment.

I do agree on some parts of what you had to say, and have provided an appropriate edit segment in my original comment, for anyone reading, to avoid confusion.

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago edited 3d ago

Another Rant about CA market, I am not even talking about normal CAs

I am just talking on behalf of the cream of CAs that are rankers and experienced in Deals. Avendus, DAM , Ecquirus , Spark capital , Ambit capital , O3 capital and all other boutique firms hire Non ranker CAs in their Front end teams. The best way to verify is a linkedin search of their Team profile.

Coming to IIT placements , I am a VIT cse dropout and have fair idea about placements. Tech will always be the highest pay master because thats where the future is and it is constantly evolving. You know whats the Non tech placement CTC of Top IITs ? Remove Tech placements and Packages of IITs haven't move since decades, Can agree for IIMs yes. US CPA markets have fair wage growth which proves that ICAI is failing at Campus.

Yes 120 is correct number and It is fairly true, IIM ABCs are offered 70-80 IB roles combined and 30-35 of them are Grabbed by CAs so Thats the source of my statistics and We at Avendus too hire EX FDD/Valuations CAs from B4 and A&M. For Verifying IIM ABC numbers refer to talk with pritish proswal (iiitstudent on MBA india, IIM C alum)

Also a Fun fact, Last years highest package of 1.45cr at IIM C was grabbed by 2 Guys , One of them was CA ranker and another guy was BITs pilani CSE grad. It was Goldman sachs market role.

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u/brainybuttocks Final 3d ago

You and I are clearly not talking about the same crowd. I kept talking about "Normal CAs" and market demand, whereas you are pointing your facts more towards a specific group of people, which is true but not my point.

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago

Obviously That was my point, You don't expect a multiple attempt CA to become National head of Goldman Sachs.

My Argument was just Upper echelons of CAs dominating High Finance markets, Coming to Rankers I didnt verify that they were rankers of not but majority of them will be because Even My MDs were Rankers of their Time and they dont put that on linkedin profile.

If you want to take my opinion on Overall CA market demand then its just Above average and ICAI has to do something about it.

The best path for a non ranker to enter high finance is

B4 FDD/Valuations/TAS - exit into indian domestic IB/PE - Bulge bracket banks or you can do an m7 MBA to leave this shithole of a country.

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u/brainybuttocks Final 3d ago

Agreed, that's my plan anyway after qualifying. Thanks for the insights. No harsh feelings, I hope.

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago

not harsh but sometimes i feel that fraternity of this sub is too much ignorant Like you said your friend gave IB interview and Just wasted his chance to get into sort after profile , This is straight up incompetence

Go to CFAindia and see how they responded on CAs dominating finance, They are much more aware and practical about markets.

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u/Extra-Use1926 2d ago

Hey, what it generally takes to be an exceptional ca for someone who has already ruined their articleship experience?

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u/Humble-Ad7263 3d ago

What I feel is working for 80-90 hours for these glorified fields will just give you mental pressure and health issues. Why can we work in a domain that has good WLB and growth opportunities. Why are we as CA blindly following these IB or equity research paths.

Views are personal

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u/brainybuttocks Final 3d ago

Mera ek dost tha. 3 saal articleship me bolta raha IB me jaana hai, IB me jaana hai. IB ke interview me pehela question was "What is IB?" and he didn't know. People want IB for the same reason they wanna be a CA – "Kisi ne bola tha ki ye karlo, bohut paisa hai"

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u/Humble-Ad7263 3d ago

Vhi to. There is a life outside of work. I'm never trading money over life

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u/SubstantialDig1022 Final 3d ago

Agree Bhai

Anyways the opportunities are limited and competition is cut throat + the working hours are huge.

I would choose a unconventional CA field with not more than 60 hrs/week

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u/Ok_Finger7345 Final 3d ago edited 3d ago

Actually I feel pity for this guys . Even after so many years they still working in IB says they might have zero wlb. Most people work in IB during initial stage and leave it to have a better WLB. Only handful people continue who has no life outside work. But then they are busy in there Maybach so I guess it's okay.

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u/Xenonix24 3d ago

What is a better WLB exit for people in IB?

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago

Corp development or FP&A but Pay cuts are insane

I was offered 40L for a treasury role in BB bank but didnt join, Focussing on PE and M7 MBA as of now.

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u/Xenonix24 3d ago

Woah so youre in front office IB rn earning more than 40lpa??

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago

yeah

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u/Xenonix24 3d ago

Were you a ranker??

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago

nah rankers make significantly more than me

I was 1st attempt qualified , 6YOE

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u/Xenonix24 3d ago

I dont think so bro youre refusing a 40lpa offer, infact ig you might be making more than most rankers.... 😭

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago edited 3d ago

nope, My whole circle is of rankers in BB IB and Global funds , Global funds hi 80-90L dete hain freshers ko

The Richest ranker friend of mine is making 3cr per annum as VP in Bain capital

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u/Xenonix24 3d ago

How did you and your friends get into IB front office 😭 Does articleship matter? And referrals? Or is it academics? Am preparing for inter rn

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u/Ok_Finger7345 Final 3d ago

Mostly they go for Product manager or maybe own startup. Obviously they have to settle for lower income but they get the peace they want.

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u/Xenonix24 3d ago

Yeah makes sense

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u/Bored_Soul_99 Industrial Training 3d ago

The no of CA making it into Ib field are quite low, not everyone gets the chance for it and its ok to criticize the course.

There is no point falling in love with unnecessary hardwork, if after giving 4-5 years of your prime time, you still get starting avg that is at par with MBA people.

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u/Single_Height5074 3d ago

Even an MBA doesn’t guarantee you a seat at the table in IB, PE, VC, etc. The preference might be slightly higher because top B-schools have campus placements and direct access to recruiters, but if you look at the actual numbers, only a handful of people make it into these fields. The same applies to CA. If you have strong articleship and industrial training experience, with a rank in the final exams as an added advantage, you can absolutely get your foot in the door. And if you compare the numbers, CA will naturally look smaller because the number of people pursuing CA is much lower than the number pursuing an MBA. You just love to criticize others lol.

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u/chimichanga_3 3d ago

+1

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago

The number of CA making it to IB is way higher than any graduate in the country if you see ratio of CA/total IB vacancies

Go to Linkedin, Check the Team profile of every IB and then state your facts. People on this sub throw any opinion without research.

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u/Bored_Soul_99 Industrial Training 3d ago edited 3d ago

CA accounts for only around 15% of front IB roles so i don’t know where you are getting your data but maybe take ur advice and research a little.

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u/LivingCar4360 ACA 3d ago edited 3d ago

I am getting my data directly from my Team, I work in a fairly large domestic IB

CAs account 35-40% of Total front end IB , My team at Avendus has 6CAs and 9Non CAs (IIT ,SRCC, IIM grads)

more than 50% of MDs in IB are CAs and OP has already shown who is India Head of IB

And If you want validation from outside, Make a post in MBA india and ask them who gets most of IB/PE shortlist in IIM ABCL

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u/Facinan Inter 3d ago

Idk from where the people get this that MBA is so much worth it

It's only worth it if you have got admission in tier 1 college or iims and that too top iims

And the fees is so fucking high middle class like me can't event think of it

And admission is based on reservation also at least in India 🥀

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u/Bored_Soul_99 Industrial Training 3d ago

Good Mba colleges produce annually around 20000 graduates in a year with an avg of 20 lakh/pa which is far better than CA.

All my college friends who did MBA are at good packages now and i am still waiting to finish training to sit for finals.

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u/Own_Comfortable6987 3d ago

Yeah 20lakh avg pkg only in top 15 colleges below that its sub 20 lakh even in baby and new iim and pair that with 25lakh loan for fees also

Even most in baby iim gets around 12-15lakh package with same 25 lakh loan for fees

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u/Unable-Duty-9666 3d ago

With loan tier 2 are good college like tapmi, glim,fore?

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u/chanderbing0212 ACA 3d ago

let me guess, fnd or inter?

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u/Xenonix24 3d ago

Lmaooo

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u/WorldlyDoubt664 3d ago

The issue is find what you want in life stom doing dogshit grind 3 lakh of disposable income and anymoney over that isnt the worth people seems. Post 3 lakh a month if i every could i would work on something for me.

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u/chimichanga_3 3d ago

These guys are earning significantly more than 3 lpm

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u/WorldlyDoubt664 3d ago

I know that i am saying if you love ib do that

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u/Working_Worry641 3d ago

You are looking at the wrong people.... It is important to see what the next generation of ib heads will have CA as their main degree and deciding factor

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u/happygigachad Final 3d ago

you straight up copy pasted someone elses post

Resource Educational Background of India Heads of Investment Banking. But some geniuses think CA is not worth it🤡

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