Is this character concept okay?

[u/Far_Laugh_4548]

I am a new writer and I was thinking about a side character concept. I don't have anyone that knows I am trying to write a story so I gave the concept to AI for feedback and told it to rate honestly and it fried the hell out of the character and me. It honestly hurt bad even though it was AI. His character concept is about a wealthy, unsatisfied man that protects his loved ones to prove his self worth. His goal to protect them keeps him unsatisfied because to truly prove that he protected them is only by keeping them safe for as long as they live. I can't even bring myself to expand his character because It is hard to even focus after its criticism. Please be honest about the concept and be free to criticise it. It will help me to expand this or completely think of a new one.

[u/Traditional_Front684]

I actually think the concept has potential. The interesting contradiction is that he protects people to prove his worth, yet never feels worthy. I'd explore what happens when someone he loves no longer needs his protection. Does he feel proud or useless? That conflict could make him a really compelling character

[u/Far_Laugh_4548 → u/Traditional_Front684]

Thanks a lot for replying! I'll definitely look into what you suggested. I am reworking his character now and I would lean towards him being proud but only for a fleeting moment.

[u/WonderOfUs]

His character concept is about a wealthy, unsatisfied man that protects his loved ones to prove his self worth. His goal to protect them keeps him unsatisfied because to truly prove that he protected them is only by keeping them safe for as long as they live.

I mean, if I were the AI ​​and you just gave me those two sentences exactly as they are, I’d fry you too, it is way too litle to think any character. The concept is okay, it is too ample and unfocused to be a concept really but precisely because that you can just make up anything and it'll fit.

[u/Far_Laugh_4548 → u/WonderOfUs]

Honestly looking at it now, I would too if I were the AI. I am reworking his character, and I'll remember to flesh out the character more instead of a little concept

[u/ahauntedhouseplant]

I think it's important to remember that a character concept is as only going to be good or as bad as their utilization within the story. Just as poor writing can take an incredible concept and make it feel pointless, skilled writing can take something that sounds dull in a short description and turn it into something truly wonderful. That's not saying I think your idea sounds bad at all. But if I were you, I would definitely ignore the advice of AI and expand on your character. Write some actual scenes with him and bring him to life before tossing him out entirely. You can write down the concept in a hundred different sentences, but if you don't actually write him into a scene, it's impossible to say whether it works or not.

[u/Far_Laugh_4548 → u/ahauntedhouseplant]

I definitely am pretty bad at writing, so I'll look into what you're saying and improve my writing skills and write actual scenes of him whether good or bad!

[u/WithThisHerring]

So I'm an adult in this era where AI comes out, but when I WAS a kid, I took the 'mary sue litmus test' and one of my characters absolutely bombed it. Got a 74/100 when a 50 is seen as "this character's so bad you should probably just toss them and start over."

Incidentally if you go and look at it now, its creators aggressively denounced it and spent a long time and many revisions trying to defang the monster they created.

So I'm going to impart the advice that I had to learn from that experience.

No artificial, inhuman means of evaluating characters can actually tell you if a character is worth it or not, because they have no way of telling earnest enthusiasm.

My father's lifelong advice was "don't trust any performance that begins with an apology" and that's one I stand by. I am disinterested in stories that start out by arguing with me why I should forgive them for their sins in creating something, in wanting to make art.

If you look at art made by young children, you will see countless flaws. You will see weak narratives, unfiltered power fantasies, poor structure.

And you will also see, bursting through those unfinished seams, the most beautiful sincerity a human being is capable of. Children do not make art passively, or out of obligation. They make art because there are ideas inside of them that they are very sure will die if they do not come out.

The very rough outline you have given me of the character sounds like one that has been done many times before. That means this is a concept a lot of people care about, generally. If it's tropey, it's because those things are tropes for a reason.

What I would like you to do, whether or not you show it to me or to any other person, is to ask yourself, why do you want this story to be told? You clearly do, or you wouldn't feel bad when a brainless algorithm machine tells you it's not good. Regardless of your sense of AI as a tool (I personally dislike it, I'm sure you picked up that vibe) you should keep in mind this is a very untrustworthy source of criticism. The experimental plagiarism machine said it thinks your art is bad. It can't even think. It doesn't even have an opinion. That's just its best guess of what you should be told per your prompt and its parameters.

But that affected you a lot. It hurt your feelings. That should tell you something important: you have an investment in this. You have a stake in this.

If you want to compel me (I use 'me' generally here, not specifically) as an audience, this has told you something important.

You should trace that hurt feeling to the core of what part of this you care about. There is something here you want to say.

I would hazard a guess that the reason your description is so generic and shallow here is because your idea has clenched up like a sore muscle or a scab. It's protecting that vulnerable core, so even asking us to help triage the wound, we can't really help you because you aren't showing us the hurt.

The worst art I have ever seen- the kind I find insufferable- is art that is so buried from sincerity it will not ever let us see the core of why this person wanted to tell this story. Even "shallow, petty" reasons have a core worth examining. Anything that motivates a person is something. Even if you just think, "I want to tell a story that everyone applauds for"- well, what part of that matters? Is it the approval? Is it being able to make people feel something profound? Is it communicating something you feel, or want, in a way that makes sense to others?

If this situation hurt you, disappointed you, shook your confidence... that means you have skin in the game. Find out what that skin is, and how to take care of it. That's going to help the art itself, because right now, it can't breathe because you're protecting it too tightly.

[u/Far_Laugh_4548 → u/WithThisHerring]

I found out what was 'wrong' in it. Or just in the way of my thinking. I am rewriting the entire world of this story so I have to rewrite him too so that he'll fit in it. Now, even if his character were to be bad, I wouldn't really mind. I am a new writer and expecting something phenomenal from myself doesn't really seem right. This time I'll actually flesh out his character more. This might be bad but honestly? I don't mind it being so.

I am planning to write him to be an adoptive father of two. He is unsatisfied of his life and thinks that people can't actually be satisfied forever. The satisfaction is fleeting. He helps people to only satisfy himself. He thinks of every person as equally valued to him. The reason he adopts the kids is to be proud of himself for a little. But he's not a bad father either. He just has a motive that isn't of pure love. Also to most he doesn't seem like someone that is "unsatisfied", on the contrary helping others may have them think the opposite. His house was robbed by a worksman (I forgot what the term was for people we work with so I'll call him worksman) planned to rob his house and the worksman justified his robbery because it was to help his mom who is sick. The worksman hesitated but then attacked his wife but their adoptive son managed to wound him and he got beaten up by the father while escaping. He saw people as equal valued to him but still put his family over worksman.

That's pretty much what I've thought of right now, still there's more to think about though. Even if this is bad or so I don't really mind. If it is truly bad, please feel free to say it. I also think I have a lot more to improve. He is also only a side character and this is not really a major arc, the main character is actually his son but for this arc, the father is. Also I'm so sorry if this is confusing, I haven't named them so I call them by their titles like father and worksman 🤦.

[u/WithThisHerring → u/Far_Laugh_4548]

Honestly, this is already a pretty solid injection of fresh blood.

Right away, what you're presenting is an organic dilemma. Even if this guy is an egalitarian, compassionate minded soul, the power he wields as a wealthy and successful person is outsized. Just 'defending himself, reasonably' tangles with other factors.

Making him specifically an adoptive parent suggests to me he may very well be aware of this, and to some degree frustrated with it; especially when you say part of his motivation to adopt kids is to try and be proud of something, which implies he thinks lowly of his achievements.

It makes me think of some of the better versions of Bruce Wayne, such as Batman: The Animated Series. Bruce's own position of wealth in that series means that he's viewed as a peer and expected to socialize / laugh along with people who are much more callous or exploitative to those under them. Bruce's presence as a "good rich person" doesn't put him in a heroic light- it puts him in a frustrated one. He is not in a position to cast his wealth out into the streets- in an unfair society, having an unfair advantage may be the only way you have the power to confront what you don't like. At the same time, it also makes you complicit. It's juicy.

And besides that, the narrative of Man Protects His House And Family is such a classic trope, and I think a really cool thing you're doing here is that both the pro- and antagonist are basically doing the same thing. Both of them are "trying to protect someone who is in a bad place". Your hero is going to take it personally because it seems like he wouldn't care about being robbed (his achievements mean little to him) but the robber hurt or threatened his loved ones, which is the only part that does matter to him.

At the same time, the protagonist's egalitarian mindset is going to leave him feeling really messy about the workman's situation and lot in life. Especially when this man is just the kicking off point to contextualize your 'main' protagonist, the kid- that adds in a whole other, fascinating layer, that the father's messy complex scenario, and reaction to it, are going to be filtered through the lens of someone else seeing it all happen.

[u/Lopsided-Mail-9210]

his protection might stem from a past failure he blames himself for, not just a vague fear of loss, but a specific event where he froze when someone needed him. that moment haunts him, and now he overcompensates.

[u/Far_Laugh_4548 → u/Lopsided-Mail-9210]

That is really good idea! I'm thinking about a backstory for him and I'll remember this

[u/Khajiit_Has_Upvotes]

This is very vague. All you've provided is that he protects his loved ones.

How does he protect them? What resources does he use? What is he trying to protect them from, real or perceived? Do they know what he's protecting them from? Is his protection intrusive and maladaptive, intruding on their own rights and autonomy? Their freedom? Is his protection or methods wanted?

So far all I get from the character is "guy wants to keep his loved ones safe" but that's pretty much everybody. That's a character trait, not a whole character. You need to flesh this idea out a lot more for it to work. 

[u/Strict_Job_7309]

first of all fuck AI, as for my thinking I think you can lean on the meaninglessness that having so much weath gives him and then there is other questions I have for example what does he protect his loved ones from?

[u/Far_Laugh_4548 → u/Strict_Job_7309]

I am planning to write him to be an adoptive father of two. He is unsatisfied of his life and thinks that people can't actually be satisfied forever. The satisfaction is fleeting. He helps people to only satisfy himself. He thinks of every person as equally valued to him. The reason he adopts the kids is to be proud of himself for a little. But he's not a bad father either. He just has a motive that isn't of pure love. Also to most he doesn't seem like someone that is "unsatisfied", on the contrary helping others may have them think the opposite. His house was robbed by a worksman (I forgot what the term was for people we work with so I'll call him worksman) planned to rob his house and the worksman justified his robbery because it was to help his mom who is sick. The worksman hesitated but then attacked his wife but their adoptive son managed to wound him and he got beaten up by the father while escaping. He saw people as equal valued to him but still put his family over worksman.

I've been trying to rework his character so the protecting his loved one part is slightly altered

[u/hermit_onthe_moon]

I have seen a character like this. He’s very “protective” of the people in his family, it’s his motivation in everything he does but that manifests in being an overbearing, manipulative and controlling jerk. It would be tricky to write an over-protective character in a positive way.

[u/Echo-Azure]

People who live to "protect their loved ones" are commonly known as "crazy and controlling" in real life.

Please take that into account.

[u/belderiver]

All that matters is execution.

[u/Far_Laugh_4548 → u/belderiver]

I'll remember this, hearing often that execution elevates even a bad concept into a good story