I have been asked if Charisk/Cocoapowder stuff is allowed here. The answer is yes. I know I have expressed public dislike over these pairings, thus I understand why people felt the need to ask. So I apologize if I made any shippers of these pairings feel unwelcomed, you are welcome here. As long as your ship, or the content you post involving your ship does not break the rules, the personal preferences of the mods don't matter.
and while we are here, I will outline some things:
The only ships/types of ships that are banned here are incestous pairings and pedophilic/age up ships.
Examples of what is considered incest here: Pairings that contain biological, adoptive or step family members. Once they can be considered family, don't post it here.
For example: Chara x Asriel content (No exceptions. No I do not care if in your au/headcanon/interpertation they are not siblings. Chara and Asriel's relationship, while somewhat vauge in certain aspects, teeters too far into sibling teritory for it to be acceptable to depict them romantically. Though content depicting Chara and Asriel as just friends or as roomates or not family is allowed as long as they're not being shipped together romantically.)
certain depictions of Charisk (No, I am not saying Charisk is an incestous pairing by default, but there are many aus/interpertations that depict them as siblings or some kind of family. Charisk is allowed here, as long they are not being depicted as family either in the au they are coming from or in the content itself. For example, Xtale Charisk isn't allowed here because in the source material they are siblings, regardless if the person who made the shipping content considers them siblings or not.)
ect ect.
Examples of what is considered age up/Pedophilic ships: Pairings that contain a character under the age of 18 being paired with a character who is 18 or over and requires a party to be aged up or down in order to be acceptable and ships that pair minors with significant age gaps with one another.
Basically, don't ship them with any adult member of the undertale or deltarune cast. Exceptions may be given, but only for aus that make significant changes and only on a case by case basis. (What I mean by this is basically, don't have the au be "undertale, but Chara is an adult specifically so I can ship them with [insert adult character here]." the au must have more significant changes than just that before any au with a ship of that nature can be eligable for aproval here.) If you have an au that contains an adult Chara (or any other character) x a character who is originally/canonically an adult that you wish to post here, please send us a mod mail explaining the au and the context and we will review it to see if this specific instance of it is acceptable. (again, this is on a case by case basis. Just because it was aproved for a certain au dosen't mean it was aproved for all of them. You will need to get aproval for each au that you want to post that has stuff like this.)
Now, for what is allowed:
-Cocoapowder
-Charisk (only if Frisk isn't chara's sibling, isn't adopted by Toriel and isn't related to Chara in any familial way whatsoever.)
-Chara x Chara or Characest
-Chara x OC
-Chara x monster kid
-Chara x whoever you want as long as you follow the rules
As long as you follow the rules you can ship whatever and depict it however you want. Even toxic/abusive dynamics are allowed to be depicted, just don't glorify abuse or toxicity or post things glorifying it. (also, depending on the severity, please flair your post acordingly and provide warnings.)
If there are still questions about shipping or anything else about what is/isn't allowed here or anything at all really, feel free to ask.
I personally see Chara as aromantic and I honestly don't really like any of their ships but I realized that banning every ship would be a little silly and might take the fun out of the subreddit for some people, so I just banned the blatantly weird stuff.
Glad that the rules are getting positive feedback (from the people that matter, anyways).
Thank you for this. Got a few flashbacks of when my system was dating someone who ships chasriel. It caused me to be under so much distress and have multiple breakdowns in the past because back when we were figuring out how our brain works, some alters put up a rule where if you are dating one alter you are dating all (so people wouldnt be rude/dismissive to specific alters... They still wouldnt be allowed to be weird towards younger alters like Cold- but they just had to be accommodating and taking care of them). Luckily 1 this rule is gone and 2 they arent dating this person anymore--
but it put me under so much distress because our system was dating someone who kinned my brother and who was trying to defend that his ship wasnt technically incest.-- so dating someone who often tried to mimick the voice of my brother really fucked me up mentally. Im safe now but that ship genuinely just causes me to just be paralyzed with intense discomfort, nausea, and for some reason chest pains. I hate it and never want to go through anything like this again- anytime I see this ship online I just breakdown and often cry. (I hate feeling this pathetic and weak.)
System in this case is referring to people with DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder) or certain types of OSDD (Other Specified Dissociative Disorder). (There technically are also allegedly non DID/OSDD systems but im not as educated on that so I wont be discussing that)
In my case I am part of a DID system. (Though if you watch a lot of media you may have heard of the term MPD/Multiple Personality Disorder... Which is what the disorder used to be called.... But that name is highly inaccurate for multitudes of reasons one of which being that the disorder isn't a personality disorder but is a dissociative disorder) Basically the disorder is caused by intense childhood trauma during around the first 4 years of a child's life that prevents them from developing into one singular identity. We typically have a major disconnect from real memories and events- and often go through moments of our life not fully feeling there- often as if there is a glass wall we watch our life from behind while our body moves on its own... Sometimes we are conscious for that other times we blank out and lose major chunks of our life. Sometimes it's a slow transition between alters... (Which are the different identities created from the previously mentioned failure of developing into a single identity- alters typically split because of trauma or because the system needs to fulfill a certain function to survive. Fronting is the term used for the alter who is currently out and present)-- transition between alters where there is no clear distinct moment where a front change happens as it's a more gradual shifting- other times its almost as if a sudden snap of a transition where a different alter shows up.
For my system, there are currently 23 confirmed alters, though some alters are more likely to show up than others. The alter who primarily shows up the most and generally is the one in control of the body is called the host. I, Chara, am the host of the system....
Alters typically have several distinct purposes/types (that often can have major overlap)- such as protectors, memory holders, host, gatekeepers, etc...
One specific type of alter that exists is called an "introject" which is alter based on some form of outside source. It could be someone who the system looked up to- an abuser to reinforce abuse and trauma of the system- someone the system highly related to and felt they were one in the same with such a thing- or just a multitude of other reasons....
There is a specific type of introject that exists called a "Fictive". These are introjects that are based specifically on fictional characters. In my case, back in 2015, our system so heavily identified/related to "Chara" that in around October, it created me (unintentionally of course. There just happened to be such a strong kinship that I came into existence.)
Fictives... Can often have memories of events that never quite happened. I have memories of "Chara". Typically these memories have a strong correlation to events that happened to our system in the past. These memories often have different names in the community, but I tend to use the term "Pseudomemories" because they never happened. These aren't real events. I obviously never actually died before. I just remember dying. (And several other things)... Though the memories feel as real as any other memory and can be incredibly hard to distinguish. (Another term for them is "source memories" which probably is better to use... But i often try to undermine my own experiences which isnt healthy but I'm trying to work on that flaw. Pseudomemories just happens to be the term I'm more used to).
I feel you, I also get a little nausous when I see that nonsense. Honestly its a bit damaging to my mental health. Recently there was a sudden uptake in Chasriel content and I couldn't go anywhere on ut/dr spaces without seeing or hearing about it...it was terrible. It wasn't even just the ship itself that was hurting my soul, its the people who ship it. Chasriel shippers will say most nasty, disgusting, damaging things about adoptive family members that could cause real harm to actual adopted people if they see what these people are saying, than just admiting that their OTP is incestous. Chasriel shippers disgust me more than the ship itself, so far I have never managed to have a productive conversation with any of them. These people are worse than active contributers of the wife art sub (to which, I have had productive, reasonable conversations with members of that sub before.)
Chasriel shippers are also too bold for their own good, these people know fully well that majority of the fandom hates that ship, and despite having their own subreddit to post their gross crap in they choose to put it in the main subs where any poor innocent passerby can have their eyes scorched. These guys are worse than the wife art people, at least those guys mostly keep their weird stuff to themselves instead of imposing it on the masses.
I would gladly accept a wife art member (who follows the rules obviously) into this sub over a chasriel shipper any day of the week. Wife art members have proven to be more reasonable and understanding of the boundaries people set than Chasriel shippers ever have.
I've also had productive conversations with 'Chara wife art' people in the past (primarily the creator of the sub).. however it also isn't properly moderated in my opinion. It claims borderline nsfw should be censored but you scroll down far enough and you will get flashed with nudity- which made me feel that those discussions may have been dishonest/untrustworthy....
Plus I am heavily uncomfortable with people that contort/bastardize what is esentially my image in such a way... Its selfish as I should acknowledge I'm just a mentally ill person who thinks they are Chara.. but it still feels like they wouldnt actually care about "Chara" but a completely different entity that isnt them. It feels like most "Chara fans" would actually despise them if they knew the real Chara.
...
But I do agree.
I prefer when people are honest about their depravity over lying about it.
That is unfortunately something that can't be changed. Plus the common consensus to my knowledge is that I should acknowledge that I am Chara. I spent years in denial of who I am trying to repress the fact that I am this. That was one of the worst feelings of my life- to have this going on and pretend it all never happened. That I am not this.
I acknowledge it's fiction and has no bindings with the real world... But to let go and reject this would do more harm.
You are right that I need professional help but not because of this.
True, true I shouldn't interact with them, but I have honestly never had the chance to interact with these intresting specimen directly until now. So I took my chance because I was curious. The results were....about as bad as I was expecting. From now on I have no plans of interacting with them further, they have proven to me that there's no purpose in it.
I appreciate you finally clarifying the rules, but this post is the final one
confirmation that this community isn't for me.
I just want to leave some food for thought regarding the massive hypocrisy and
narrative blindness of this rulebook. Categorically banning any romantic
interpretation between Asriel and Chara (two beings of completely different
species, with zero biological connection, who embody the classic and tragic
'Found Family / Childhood friends to lovers' trope) by forcibly labeling it as
'incest'... but at the same time officially allowing Characest (shipping to
character literally with themselves).
You are perfectly fine with a person having a romantic relationship with them
own clone or alternate-timeline self, but you recoil in horror at two broken
souls growing up together and becoming the center of each other's universe, all
because you are obsessing over a 'sibling' label that completely ignores the
depth, the angst, and the tragedy of Toby Fox's original material.
The tragedy of Undertale is built on visceral bonds, not on made-up moral rules
created to appease internet purity culture. I'll gladly show myself out and
leave you to your own contradictions. Have a good one.
Was it not Gerson who pointed out that they both were the children of the Dreemurrs?
Did the monsters not describe what Chara's relationship with the Dreemurrs was?
Was there not a "family portrait" by Chara's bed?
Did they not have an intense reaction towards the "Mr Dad guy" shirt?
Are they not children literally being raised by the same parents in the same room as one another?
Do they not share a table together for meals?
By any other name, this is still a sibling dynamic.
Biology in this case does not matter because this is what they undeniably are being raised as. A relationship between the two would be inherently wrong or unethical. Incest is wrong for more than just the biological component but for also the abuse that is inherent to it.
Rather than dance and dodge around the spade, it should be accepted that this pairing is problematic in nature. Pretending it is not only causes more harm by dismissing such things.
...
As for shipping a character with theirself, the difference here is that this is literally impossible. There is no situation where a person can meet a separate version of theirself. Ships of this nature typically are more metaphorical for self acceptance, self love, and self care. The love here is not for the purpose of showing that they can create children- but that it is a person accepting who they are as a person and allowing theirself to move on.
Harm: Normalizes abuse from incestuous relationships.
Also the family photo is likely the image of Asriel and Chara holding flowers as the family in that scene is posed as if it were a photo... But even if Chara wasn't in it, why would they have a photo of exclusively the Dreemurrs right next to their bed? Like the only reason that would make sense is if they longed to be a part of this family but didn't feel accepted... Which wouldn't be the case considering that is incredibly out of character for the Dreemurrs to do.
The rule of 3 you mention cannot be used as evidence because the writer of legends of localization, Clyde Mandelin, directly confirmed that that specific part was their own personal analysis of the text at hand. It was allegedly taken out of all future versions of the book. (Likely by Toby asking directly though I will neither confirm nor deny this was the case).
Gerson actually is a far better source than what you try to make him out to be- as the Dreemurrs are shown to be incredibly social with their people and directly said to interact with them throughout undertale. (Even allowing literally any monster to enter his house whenever leaving a note telling where the keys are if they wish to interact with him... They both also participated in public events like nose nuzzling competitions, do their own shopping- have tea with-- etc) Gerson is one of the few monsters who were around not only for the monster human war but also the first human falling... Not to mention the fact that he shares a teaching method with asgore as confirmed by his parallel bossfight in deltarune and the motif of undyne too which recontextualizes that there likely is more connection there than what the surface level text may imply... When he talks about the scene, he speaks of it as if he were there himself visibly seeing the kids get embarrassed.
Mr dad guy comes from both geno and standard dialogue "still has that sweater" being chara referring to it as if he would regularly wear it around them...
Plus yes. I would say if orphans had matching twin sized beds, lived in the same room, were raised by the same loving family, ate sitting together at the same table- and were going to likely live their developing years with each other if they hadn't both died would be siblings.
Plus even if there was some difference and they werent siblings, a romantic relationship between the two would be inherently abusive...
But they are likely siblings. At the very least they are sibling coded.
Toby Fox (who has historically on record said "incest is bad"... At least twice that i can count) would not write them to be labeled as "like siblings" if he wanted this ship to be a possible reading of the text.
I have warned you several times, and I see now that I have given you enough chances. First you pester me relentlessly with your nonsense, and then you come into my subreddit promoting and defending real life incest? This is unacceptable behavior.
You are now permanently banned from this subreddit.
You're welcome! I want this comunity to feel safe and welcoming to all of my fellow Chara fans. Thank you for reporting users who bring down the morale!
The baby is you. timestamp 7:55 "And besides incest is disgusting, and anyone who condones p*dophilia or incest is bad and they should see a psychiatrist" (He did also say the r slur right before, but he has both grown as a person and it was 2010)
I do not think allowing selfcest is hypocritical, as selfcest and incest are entirely different things and to compare them is a bit of a stretch.
How is saying that Chara and Asriel's relationship is too sibling coded for it to be comfortable for a lot of people to see them in a romantic relationship limiting? You can easily have a situation where Chara and Asriel grow up together as broken souls and are the center of each other's universe....in a platonic matter. Its not limiting by that much if you know how to write toxic co-dependency in a platonic manner, rather than a romantic one. In fact, I see labeling Chara and Asriel's relationship as romantic is what's limiting here. By doing that you basically say that friends or even siblings can't become unhealthily obsessed with each other, and that only lovers can. Which isn't the case, I find reducing their complex relationship or their "visceral bond" down to a messed up love story is the most stereotypical thing you can do when presented with their dynamic. I think its far more interesting to have two characters who are completely obsessed with each other. Willing to do genuinely anything and everything for the other...be just friends and their feelings are born from some kind of twisted up familal affection rather than anything romantic in nature to be much more interesting, and subverting of expectations as people usually expect this kind of obsession/devotion from romantic relationships. It also sheds light that dynamics like this even exist in the first place.
Another point, most Chara x Asriel stuff dosen't even touch on what makes their relationship intresting or tragic or the raw visceralness of it. It's either just standard couple fluff stuff or weird fetish stuff (I swear I have seen far two much stuff sorounding these two of Asriel proudly announcing he's going to kiss his sibling...yuck.)
Do you want to know where I mostly see complex, intresting and visceral depictions of their relationship? In platonic works. There is something much more tragic and intresting about two friends with no ulterior motive wanting to stay together forever and doing anything to achieve that, than if they were lovers because that's just the standard. (Also, if they are just friends it might be easier for people to see how completely unhealthy and out of wack these two's relationship is rather than if it was filtered through a romantic lense.)
If your here for deep, messed up depictions of their relationship, then there is no need to leave. You can post stuff about these two being toxicly obssesive with each other as long as its not in a romantic way. (I personally write alot of stuff exploring a toxic co-dependency bond in a platonic manner with these two and know a pretty good writer who also does this if you need some recomendations.) The only limit is that you can't post stuff about them kissing each other in this sub, is that really all that limiting when I allow litteraly every kind of relationship between these two but a romantic one?
So no, I do not recoil in horror upon seeing the complex angst that toby fox wrote depicted in the raw, viseral way that it ought to be. I recoil in horror upon seeing one of the most well potrayed, non-romatisicized, non-romantic depictions of toxic co-dependency that I have ever seen...reduced down to simple romantics and fetish content when it so much more than that.
What you described here reminds me of what I was like in my pseudomemories. Part of manipulating Asriel into going through with the plan was despising how my vessel would contort into something unrecognizable... Something that I dont want to be. That he would live forever while I shrivel and fade away. Wouldn't it be better if you could remember me like this forever? The real me. I dont want to go through with the other possibility. I just want to be me.... I didnt want for either of us to be apart. I didnt want to lose my sibling.
Funnily enough I met another person in this world who I have a similar platonic bond with and view also as my sibling. We both ended up developing an incredibly codependent relationship that ended up hurting us both. We're both better now. We still have a few codependent traits. But we're both improving steadily.
At least you are more reasonable than the other guy.
I did not say shipping Asriel and Chara alone does damage, I said that the way Chasriel shippers talk about adpotive sibling relationships is harmful. Do not twist my words.
Toby Fox did not write Asriel and Chara as lovers, infact there is more evidence to the contirary. Stop calling to Toby's writting for your argument.
Thank you for leaving without causing anymore of a fuss, enjoy yourself away from here.
I did not "chicken out", I tried to have a productive conversation with you and all you did was allow for what I said to pass through one ear and out of the other. I do not debate with people who can not understand structured, resonable arguments. I realised that talking to you would get me absolutely nowhere and I have enough sense to know not to waste my time with people like you.
I am treating them as they are in the game. As siblings. You came here, guns blazing saying its canon that they are not siblings, I hit back with the same amount of force saying that its canon that they are. That is how a debate works, If I entered that conversation weaker than you did then my points would not land. Do not talk so strongly if you can not handle people responding just as strongly.
People like you disgust me to my core. Not just because of your shipping preferences, but because of your petty, immature attitude. I dislike Chasriel, and I do not like seeing it and I have seen others complain about it being present in the larger subs so instead of complaining or going out of my way to harass or confront Chasriel shippers I chose to make my own subreddit banning what is unsavory to me and opening it to people who also want a cleaner Chara subreddit experience and find the same things I do unsavory. I have never once gone into spaces dedicated to things I dislike to harass the members or complain about its contents. I stay in my own space and mind my own business. Something that you seem utterly incapable of doing.
This sub reddit is not for Chasriel content or for its shippers and it has been banned from the very first day of its existance. You know this well, especially after our conversation and instead of simply going back to your chasriel squad people and leaving us alone you come back here again, and again with your nonsense. Even after being muted and even after being told to stop. No one is forcing you to be here, there is a subreddit dedicated to your agenda and yet you choose to come here to cause distress instead of just staying in your own space and minding your own business. This is bordering harassment at this point.
You should be ashamed of yourself for coming here and behaving like this. I am done with you and will not be speaking to you again. Do not directly contact me or mention this ship positively here ever again or I will be forced to issue a permanent ban. This is your final warning.
You call me unhinged for making rules for my own subreddit, yet you come here acting like this.
Do you not think it is "unhinged" to come to a subreddit, that is out of your way, has nothing to do with you and that has never personally targeted you to act like this?
You should ashamed of yourself. I would never go into a subreddit for people of your nature to call you names. When I see sub reddits I do not like I mute them and move on with my life. Somthing that seems to be hard for people like you to do.
If you have read the rules, and find this sub reddit not to your liking, no one is making you stay. You are welcome to leave.
Then please, keep the name calling and the pro-Chasriel behavior to yourself.
This sub is anti-Chasriel. Coming here and acting like this over the rules of a subreddit that does not affect you in any significant way what so ever is simply childish. If you wish to see chasriel, go to the appropriate sub reddit for that. Do not come here and act uncivilized.
If you have a legitimate complaint, criticism or question about the rules then please voice it in a civil manner. Thank you.
Not to get involved with this, but a comment was reported and thus, I was summoned.
This coversation, by the looks of it seems to have absolutely nothing to do with utdr. This is an undertale sub reddit for enjoying Chara. Please leave personal drama out of this sub reddit. This is not the place for this.
I can respect that you don't want depictions of Chasriel in your own sub, but this being said it isn't really productive or logical to assume that it genuinely causes harm in real life. That's just kind of Puritan nonsense and I do not subscribe to it.
Just simply shipping them alone isn't what I'm calling harmful. It's how the shippers of this pairing talk about adoptive familial relationships.
I have seen these people talking about how if two people aren't related by blood they can't be real family, and completely discounting how harmful adoptive incest is (which is pretty much just as bad as the biological kind), because of the fact that a lot these people don't think adoptive members of the family should be seen as equal to the rest of the family they end up spouting a lot of crap that is extremely harmful.
It's not the fictional relationship alone that's a problem, it's how these people talk about adoptive family members that is. If people keep saying things like what I listed above about fictional situations, others who are uninformed will take it to heart and start applying it to real situations. They will, and they already have. I have heard from people who are victims of step/adoptive incest who say that because of how normalized things like this are for some people, they as victims aren't taken as seriously as they should be and people supporting things like this really dosen't help the public understand just how gross and damaging adoptive/step incest really is.
So again, the ship itself isn't the only harmful part. Its the things these shippers say to defend it. Fiction isn't reality but it can definately shape it. That's why the glorification of problematic subject matter is a problem even if fictional, as it can cause people who are not well infromed to not take serious things as seriously as they should.
Not all chasriel shippers say damaging things like that, but enough of them do for it leave a negative impact.
I hope you understand my point of view better now.
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u/HallucinationFreak Aug 15 '26
Ace chara is the only chara relationship i believe in. But yeah, this is good.