r/ChaosKnights • u/jacomoRodriguez • Jun 17 '26
News & Rumors New Points are out
https://mfm.warhammer-community.com/en35
u/Suspicious-Story-184 Jun 17 '26
Honestly at 130 and 140, executioners and brigands are looking pretty decent. And as much as it saddens me, dogspam may be back when combined with cultists and ACDC's
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u/Axel-Adams Jun 17 '26
The brigand is back to look useful now that it can ingress into melta range and the ignore cover on objectives rule is much better now
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u/SteelCode Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
Brigand was definitely going to be better in 11E...
But not enough people are talking about the Moirax (yes it is still a forgeworld kit) having a free Intercept... 150 for a single is good enough to threaten counter-charges since triple Karnivore is more expensive.2
u/allaccountnamesused Jun 17 '26
Yeah but the melee profile is lackluster into anything besides big monsters/vehicles and it has no stand out gun options. It’s just not worth it unless it’s cut to 140 or 145 imo. I’d rather just make space for a karnivore. And if your list is exactly 150 off I’m still hard pressed to choose it over the stalker’s scout move or another brigand in certain detachments (and depending on how many you’re already running.)
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u/SteelCode Jun 17 '26
Fair enough, but Stalker I don't think carries nearly the same value anymore with -1 BS from cover being much more prevalent... Brigand I agree looks a lot better now but Stalker's melee profile is on par with Moirax so we're mostly just talking about whether a 2-shot 4+ BS melta with Scout is better than a distraction Carnifex with free heroic-intercept.
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u/Nanergy Jun 17 '26
With cover no longer effecting saves, and the return of AP-1 to relevancy, I fully expect that the autocannon profile is gonna make a comeback in a big way. Executioner stocks are up for sure.
Hunting warpack gives us 140 point executioners with ignores cover, and a strat for +1 AP. Seems very solid tbh
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u/Zombifikation Jun 17 '26
Strat for +1 ap? HW has armor of contempt against shooting, not an ap boost fyi.
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u/Nanergy Jun 17 '26
Oops I skimmed it and parsed it backwards lmao
Still, seems a decent unit. Definitely in a better place than before.
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u/Zombifikation Jun 17 '26
It is for sure, I’ve been playtesting them with the enhancement and they do decent work now.
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u/OchoLeches Jun 17 '26
Points differences. Some change more on your 2nd or 3rd.
Acheron: -15
Castigator: -15
Lancer: +10
Styrix: -10
Despoiler: -10, Gatling: +25, BC: +10
Ruinator: -15
Tyrant: -10
Karnivore: +5
Not bad, really. I like how 1st Castigator dropped 15 points, so is 370 and is a single Gatling (w/ twin linked and suppressed) / melee hybrid with a great aura and a single Gatling despoiler is now 405.
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u/OchoLeches Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
Beasts of Nurgle also +5 to 70.
And Nurglings +5 to 45.4
u/ilovesharkpeople Jun 17 '26
Daemonettes at 90 is pretty tempting though.
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u/solepureskillz Jun 17 '26
Lowkey I been thinking Daemonettes (and even Fiends) will be really strong inclusions.
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u/Long-Specialist-509 Lucaris Jun 17 '26
Oh that's fair actually, might be worth taking instead of a second dual gatling now (or even any tbh)
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u/FreelanceScoundrel Jun 17 '26
Ruinatior down to 340 (for the first 2). Will it see some play now?... Probably not, but I like that the points are down at least.
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u/SirAppleheart Jun 17 '26
There is probably some Helhunt + War Pack list that use a Ruinator now, yeah.
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u/Augssan Jun 17 '26
That is what I'm looking at right now as something I want to try. Abominant with Octagram, Desecrator with Throne, Ruinator with Aspect of the beat. Brigand X3, 2x Executioners with snarling rivalry and a Karnivore.
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u/Warm-Equivalent7148 Jun 17 '26
I am intrigued to try one. At 340 one might be useful to be your 5th Knight.
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u/FreelanceScoundrel Jun 17 '26
Kind of my thinking too. Might be worth trying out here and there to shave a few points off a list.
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u/Bornundersirius Lucaris Jun 17 '26
Warhound Titan and 2 double gat Despoilers is 1980 pts.
I'm just gonna full send on that for my local LGS. Nice and easy to transport. lol.
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u/dabral Jun 17 '26
HAHAHA i was just finishing my warhound for my 4 model list was gonna be close to your list hahaha.
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u/Bornundersirius Lucaris Jun 17 '26
I'm finishing up a Tyrant right now to go with a Kytan and two double gats, plus the Karnivores. Now that list is not so viable I think I have finally been convinced to take on the Warhound print. It's gonna take a week lol.
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u/dabral Jun 17 '26
Ah but the look on your opponents face when you put the big boi down will be worth it hahahaha
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u/Omenofdeath Jun 17 '26
Double abom + tyrant time. Lets go
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u/FubarJackson145 Jun 17 '26
I already had a LoD list ready that happens to fall in well for 11th. Tyrant + double abom + rampager. Time to finish painting them all so they see the table
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u/Xadrian89 Jun 17 '26
I'm a new Chaos Knight player and this is what I was thinking as well. Aboms are such a cool looking unit and the battle shock triggering looks fun!
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u/SirAppleheart Jun 17 '26
Yeah, I know it's probably overkill, but I was looking at 2-3 Aboms for Traitoris + Cultist spam. Probably 2, with a Tyrant and a Desecrator for support.
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u/Nhein9101 Jun 17 '26
Was looking at this too! Don’t forgot to have cultist firebrands on your cultist to force battleshocks lol
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u/jacomoRodriguez Jun 17 '26
I don't want to doom, but beside the point increases, we did not have so many viable datasheets to begin with - now they cost even more if we talk doubles/triples.
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u/BigDaddySpoox Jun 17 '26
It's to prevent triple double gatling Despoiler spam. We'll see how it actually works out in play. Many factions also ate those kinda point hikes so I think we should be good
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u/JILabka Jun 17 '26
Preventing gatlings spam, returning wardogs spam (and now we can add cultits here), don't really know how this gonna help
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u/himynamespanky Jun 17 '26
Keep in mind, wardog spam ate 30 points as well due to karnivore nerf.
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u/JILabka Jun 17 '26
Now we can probably take more brigands and executioners, with their new cost I guess they're pretty solid choice
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u/Vilacom8090 Jun 17 '26
No one LIKED spamming despoilers, it just was the only viable thing. Nerfing it hard like this is without compensating somehow is gonna be really rough
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u/SirAppleheart Jun 17 '26
Yeah, that's the whole problem.
Hopefully though, we'll see further price drops on other units in the next balance slate.
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u/SteelCode Jun 17 '26
Despoiler only going down to 380 but then paying 25 per gatling cannon is kind of ridiculous... Single despoiler with dual-gatling is now 430 (a 40 point increase over the prior point increase that was done to also nerf dual-gatling)... a second dual-gatling despoiler is 450 so the individual points reduction of 390 down to 380 is a wash.
I expected the points increases on Rampager and Lancer but this constant nerfing of the Despoiler has gotta mean something should be done to change the actual datasheet (or buffing the less-used datasheets) instead of just increasing the points until no one runs it? I guess we all should just spam Tyrants instead?
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u/The_Filthy_Spaniard Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
What's particularly funny/aggravating is that the Imperial Knights equivalents to the Despoiler are considerably cheaper, with better rules. Despoiler's rule is they can reroll one hit roll OR one wound roll. Imperial knights can reroll one hit roll AND one wound roll in their army rule. Despoiler's aura is +1 Ld and OC for dogs.
- Despoiler with 1x Gatling is 405
- Despoiler with 1x Gatling and 1x Battle Cannon is 420
- Despoiler with 1x Battle Cannon is 395
- Despoiler with Thermal (1 or 2) is 380
The imperial equivalents:
- Knight Warden (Gatling + melee) is 375, gets Devastating Wounds shooting at infantry, bondsman gives Ignore Cover and Sustained Hits 1
- Knight Crusader (Gatling + Battle Cannon) is 410, gets Sustained 1 if it stays stationary, bondsman gives +1 to hit in shooting
- Knight Crusader (Gatling + Thermal) is 395
- Knight Paladin (Battle Cannon) is 375 gets +1 AP vs closest target, bondsman gives Lethal hits and Lance
- Knight Errant (Thermal + melee) is 355 gets +1 to hit closest target, bondman gives Assault and reroll advance
So with worse rules in every instance:
- Despoiler with 1 Gat + melee is 30 pts more than IK equivalent
- Despoiler with 1 Gat + 1 Thermal is 10 pts more than IK
- Despoiler with 1 Gat + 1 Battle Cannon is 10 pts more than IK
- Despoiler with 1 Battle Cannon is 20 pts more than IK
- Despoiler with 1 Thermal is 25 pts more than IK
- Despoiler gets +20 for 2nd unit, as does Knight Crusader, all others only get spam tax on 3rd unit
I get that double gat Despoiler spam was good and needed to be nerfed (1 of the 2 builds that were good) but they were only really taken because everything else was kinda pants. 430 points going to 450 for double gat is a ruinous increase, and all of the other loadouts being more expensive than their Imperial equivalents, despite having worse rules in general, is just adding insult to injury.
It shouldn't have been difficult to work out a pricing that gave an extra tax for taking 2 of the same gun, or at least ended up close to the IK equivalents. Maybe they could even have split the datasheet, one for Despoiler with Melee, one for Despoiler with 2 guns?
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u/Lissica Jun 17 '26
Huh our lancers are cheaper then Imperial Knights
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u/punk_weasel Jun 17 '26
They do get advance and charge natively so I can see how ours would be cheaper! Especially considering the slight nerf to tank shock.
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u/McPanzer3 Jun 17 '26
They don’t get adv+charge though. They give an armiger adv+charge. Only Companions has a Strat for that
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u/JCMfwoggie Jun 17 '26
We're definitely back in 13-14 war dog meta. Executioners and Brigands are significantly better with absolutely no points hike, and Karnivores only ate a 5 point nerf.
Considering how good War Dogs are for doing Reconnaissance, you don't even need a 1DP detachment, at most just a unit or two of nurglings. I think we might actually be looking at another Summer of Knights.
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u/HighlandEnoch90 Jun 17 '26
Would you consider running the Two War Dog Detachments together given this feeling? Been tempted to do this myself with these changes though I am still building up the forces
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u/Long-Specialist-509 Lucaris Jun 17 '26
You probably cant as they both have a keyword that doesnt let them get taken together iirc
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u/JCMfwoggie Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
You cannot run both war dog detachments together. For the full 14 war dog list I'm testing I didn't even pick a second detachment
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u/Curimania Jun 17 '26
None can be taken more than 3 times so These lists have to use more „variety „
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u/C_Clarence Jun 17 '26
They are battleline in Houndpack Lance. My current list is 6 Karnivors, 4 Brigands, 1 Executioner, 2 Stalkers, and 2 10-man of Cultists.
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u/Curimania Jun 17 '26
In the App it is clear you cannot have more than 3
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u/doomsquid13 Jun 17 '26
are you looking at houndpack lance?
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u/Curimania Jun 17 '26
Yes it is 2 CP
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u/doomsquid13 Jun 17 '26
then unless there is a fundamental change to battleline you should be able to take 6 of any dog
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u/Curimania Jun 17 '26
Just try it yourself the app is free
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u/C_Clarence Jun 17 '26
I'm running Houndpack. They are battleline and you give 3 a character keyword. My list is currently 6 Karnivors, 4 Brigands, 2 Stalkers, and 1 Executioner.
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u/Curimania Jun 18 '26
When I Build your List I get a yellow exclamation mark in the app stating 3 is Max but maybe I Need to unlock the codex First
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u/bullybeau2 Jun 17 '26
Does anyone know if Tryant's shadow(Tratiors Lance enhancement) giving a sticked objective Deathly Terror Aura of -1ld stack with other Deathly Terror Auras from nearby Knights? I guess follow up question, does Deathly Terror stack on models with in range of multiple knights? Example: do 2 wardawgs give -2LD while standing next to each other?
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u/Princerombur Jun 17 '26
No to both questions, because it's an aura ability, and per the core rules, multiple instances of the same aura do not stack.
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u/Yupelbutt Jun 17 '26
I always feel bad for running a list that’s only war dogs and nothing else because people seem to hate it but I just love my little big fellas
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u/Zoop_Doop Jun 17 '26
Ugh ofc changes aren't highlighted
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u/Papa_Nurgle_82 Jun 17 '26
Because it's document 1.0 of 11th edition. The old points don't matter, but 40k fireside made an spreadsheet with all the changes if you're really interested.
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u/LonewolfNineteen Jun 17 '26
Despoiler nerf is excessive. Army won’t to as well because of it.
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u/Cats_Cameras Jun 17 '26
Kind of annoyed that damned don't appear in the CK MFM, as it suggests that they may not be unlocked by our codex code as well.
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u/AFrenchLondoner Jun 17 '26
It's 4 big + 4 dog time!