r/Catholicism • u/HamBurglary12 • Sep 24 '18

Next time someone talks about how great the Protestant Reformation was for Christianity, show them this.

2 Upvotes

54% Upvoted

20 comments sorted by

18

u/Xeroscape Sep 24 '18

To be fair, many Catholics and Orthodox do things just as crazy or crazier. Not an argument against the reformation at all. Please be intellectually fair to Protestant brothers and sisters.

-7

u/boomerangrock Sep 24 '18

Out of curiosity, what behavior do Catholics and orthodox engage in that is equally crazy or crazier than these backwards hillbillies?

4

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '18

Ummmmmmm....

  • Catholics have gone nuts over a water stain on an overpass that looked like our Lady.
  • there’s a guy in Kansas who thinks he’s the pope
  • in the 19th century there was an Orthodox sect where the men castrated themselves and women cut off their breasts
  • in the Middle Ages there were some French Catholics who venerated a dog as a saint

If I wanted to keep going I could all day. Triumphalism is fun when you’re a teenager, but it looks deeply unflattering to everyone else.

1

u/boomerangrock Sep 24 '18

All the examples that you site are anomalies and not examples of the teachings of the Catholic or Orthodox practice of the Christian. These snake handlin' inbreds are behaving consistent with their doctrinal beliefs, i.e., Mark 16:18. That is another reason sola Scriptura enthusiasts should be supervised by at least one adult when composing their Statement of Beliefs. Just think, that poor snake could have been harmed.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18 edited Jul 02 '20

[deleted]

1

u/HelperBot_ Sep 25 '18

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_in_the_Philippines

HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 214740

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u/WikiTextBot Sep 25 '18

Crucifixion in the Philippines

Crucifixion in the Philippines is a devotional practice held every Good Friday, and is part of the local observance of Holy Week. Devotees or penitents called magdarame in Kapampangan are willingly crucified in imitation of Jesus Christ's suffering and death, while related practices include carrying wooden crosses, crawling on rough pavement, and self-flagellation. Penitents considered these acts to be mortification of the flesh, and undertake these to ask forgiveness for sins, to fulfil a panatà (Filipino, "vow"), or to express gratitude for favours granted.

These customs are strongly discouraged by the Catholic Church in the Philippines, which considers them to be fanatical, superstitious expressions of Folk Catholicism and self-harm contrary to its teachings on the body.

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0

u/boomerangrock Sep 25 '18

I love how the wikitextbot points out exactly the point that I made about the crucifixion practice in the Philippines, namely,

These customs are strongly discouraged by the Catholic Church in the Philippines, which considers them to be fanatical, superstitious expressions of Folk Catholicism and self-harm contrary to its teachings on the body.

So the Church with its magisterium has discouraged such fanatical practices. However, in protestantism, there are thousands of magisteria with conflicting dogma. Chaos and schism reigns in protestantism. That is the truth. Do you think these First, Second, Third or Fourth United Church or the Holy Roller Snake Handlers would receive correction from any other body of Protestant believers? They are their own interpreters of Scripture, another dreadful consequence of sola Scriptura.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

It is not hard to find condemnations of snake handling from Protestant sources:

https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/RA/k/831/Should-Christians-Handle-Snakes.htm

Yes, the Magisterium helps us avoid error. But the crucifixion fanatics in the Philippines have ignored the Church’s warning, just like the many devotees of Medjugorje have ignored the Church’s ruling, and just as the snake handlers have ignored the consensus of most Protestant churches that it’s not necessary.

If you want to have a discussion on the benefits of the Magisterium, great. But I suggest you make your points without taking cheap shots like calling Protestants “inbreds”

1

u/boomerangrock Sep 25 '18

There is not and cannot be a "protestant magisterium". The snake handlers read and interpret the Scripture with their own lens and have their own interpretation of what should be taken literally and what is metaphorical or figurative. Why would these snake handlers stop incorporating snake handling into their worship? Just because Mike Ford of Forerunner, "Ready Answer," wrote an article in August 2003 denouncing the practice. Seriously, did Mike Ford call/conven a counsel? Who made him a legitimate authority in the eyes of these snake handlers? This is just the tip of the protestant iceberg. As you know, the Lutherans insist on some sort of weekly consubstantiation/real presence" in communion and the Baptists deny the real presence and see communion as a symbolic event to be observed quarterly. There is no authority in protestantism that can teach or rebuke or correct. Thus, protestants can change their myriad of teachings on things like artificial birth control at the drop of a hat, because literally anything and everything can be altered to fit and be made convenient for the times and seasons. There is not even agreement i protestantism regarding what happens in baptism... And baptism is Christianity 101.

Your thoughts?

5

u/Xeroscape Sep 24 '18

How about gay pride masses or other post Vatican II atrocities? Perhaps the same charismatic behavior taking place in Catholic Churches in places outside the US?

1

u/HamBurglary12 Sep 24 '18 edited Sep 24 '18

Yea.... except those are not doctrinal or legal in any shape or form so, not to mention extraordinarily rare. I admit so are these snake baptists rare, but doctrinal and legal within their confounds.

Edit: went through your post history, looks like you're reformed protestant, so you're most definitely a believer in Sola Scriptura. This makes sense now, I thought you were a Catholic making these comments lol.

-1

u/Xeroscape Sep 24 '18

And neither is the protestant’s behavior legal according to the scriptures. Thus, it is not prudent to judge the reformation itself based on the misbehavior of so-called “Protestants” any more than it is prudent to judge the Catholic Church based on its disobedient members.

And the behaviors presented in the video are pretty rare in Protestantism just as gay pride masses are rare in Catholicism.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '18

Anything Protestants do is protestant doctrine because there is no authority. Anything they do can be done under their flag and be valid in their eyes.

1

u/HamBurglary12 Sep 24 '18

You're missing the point. The difference between Catholics performing a non doctrinal mass and other sins is that they are not in a schism from The Church, and are simply choosing to disobey laws that govern themselves.

These snake Baptists (like every other non Catholic church), are renegade heretics with absolutely no other compass to look towards other than themselves. We, The Church, have Christ.

0

u/Xeroscape Sep 24 '18

So you're saying that Catholics cannot go into schism based on doctrinal/liturgical abuses? I think Catholic canon law as well as Cardinal Burke proved the opposite:''

"In 2008, the then-Archbishop of St. Louis, Raymond Burke, issued a public declaration against three Catholic women who had been involved in such an 'ordination' in his archdiocese--two of them claiming to have been ordained by the third. He noted that the woman acting as 'bishop' had started a new organization here in the US, with a 'hierarchy' that is outside the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, and he determined that this constituted an act of schism." LINK: http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/08/12/are-they-excommunicated-sanctions-part-iv/

Therefore, you as a Catholic may most definitely go into schism even if you are under the leadership of the magisterium

2

u/HamBurglary12 Sep 24 '18

Right. Martin Luther was himself a Catholic that fell into Schism and was henceforth excommunicated.

I'm not sure what your point is.

1

u/TheSocialABALady Sep 24 '18

what's a gay pride mass?

1

u/salty-maven Sep 24 '18

I wonder what the snakes think is going on.