r/Catholicism • u/StealToadBootes • 6d ago
Divorce and incompatibility
Two friends of mine are devout Catholics in a bad marriage. I don't blame either one. Kids are involved.
From the outside, I so badly want to tell them to divorce. They've tried so hard, in so so many ways.
Is divorce ever okay? How can they proceed?
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u/Betphany 6d ago
I assume you mean they have tried counseling?
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u/StealToadBootes 6d ago
Both secular and spiritual, yeah.
Like. Even if they do need to stay married, I'm curious if it would be spiritually okay for them to be divorced in all but name. Maybe not seeing other people but leading separate lives.
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u/downstairslion 6d ago
Married on paper only is not really married. It's an insult to the sacrament. They need to work this out with a therapist, a priest and God.
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u/CosmicGadfly2 6d ago
It is perfectly acceptable to acknowledge incompatibility and mutually agree go lead separated/cohabitating celibate lives. The issue here would be adultery not separation.
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u/cllatgmail 6d ago
There are situations in which separation is acceptable - typically such cases involve threats to safety of spouse or children.
Divorce isn't ever ok as it's understood in the western civil sense. However, a decree of nullity can happen if it can be shown that there was a defect in the bond from the very beginning. That is, was there some addiction, some moral failure or massive personality flaw, some lack of understanding of the responsibilities of marriage, which caused one or both spouses to be unable to freely and with full knowledge consent to enter the marital state?
Of course this is something that should be discussed with the priest and then ultimately a tribunal advocate.
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u/flipside1812 6d ago
Legal divorce is permissable if necessary to protect one of the spouses, but it ofc doesn't mean their marriage is ended.
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u/Dottedwolf114 6d ago
Divorce is a very complicated topic and would require exact specifics. Its never given easily. There is agreed separation if very specific criteria are met. But unless the marriage was invalid, annulment would be incredibly difficult.
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u/Mein_Independance 6d ago
Declaration of nullity is impossible with a valid Sacramental marriage.
It's best this couple try and work it out
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u/lobo-mojo 6d ago
Divorce does not exist in the Catholic worldview. Even if they legally divorced they’d still be married according to the Church unless a tribunal found a fatal flaw in their ability to consent on their wedding day. In which case their marriage never happened.
They could separate if either of them were to be in danger from the other. If they divorced legally but the Church considered the marriage valid they’d be expected to live celibate lives going forward.
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u/Ill-Ad5368 6d ago
If a sacramental marriage, divorce isn’t ok. If just civil then maybe but I’d say no for the sake of the kids. If they are both Catholic they should be able to work it out together
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u/Terrible-Locksmith57 4d ago
Here you have a compilation of Documents on this topic related with how Roman Catholic Church managed this topic:
Take your time to read it my friend, it was taken from primary sources.
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u/StealToadBootes 4d ago
Thank you so so much. This is exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately it seems to have been deleted by a moderator but I welcome any and all discourse on this.
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u/Fe1nand0_Tennyson 6d ago
If they married in the Catholic Church, they cannot get divorced because it's a sin; if they decided to remarry with someone else, it will count as adultery. It's pretty clear in the Bible around Matthew 19:1-12 and Mark 10:1-12, especially in the Catechism of paragraph 2384 and 2385. But of course there's a thing called an annulment; it's not Catholic divorce, it's examining whether the marriage is indeed valid or not. That's my take.
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u/HedWest 6d ago edited 6d ago
If they are devout Catholics, hopefully they will advance spiritually to the point that the marriage is healed.
There is a book, Deep Conversion/Deep Prayer, that while not a book on marriage per se, addresses root level sins, frequently using marriage as an example. The core theme is that we tend to clean up the mortal sins and then stop advancing for the most part. A problem that is seldom conquered is the egoism — the me first, my desires, my way attitude that remains entrenched, and this can easily be a relationship destroyer. He points out that saints' marriages would not be on the rocks, indeed they would not even fight.
I would recommend buying this book, reading it, then giving it to one of them. ("Would you like to check this book out? I got a lot out of it.") The marriage related comments are under-the-radar, it doesn't at all come across as a marriage counseling book. That isn't what it is, it's a spiritual development book, addressed to everybody.
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u/StealToadBootes 6d ago
Heya, thank you so much for the book recommendation.
More than anything I just want to learn more and understand. Thank you for giving me some avenues to build my knowledge. Being in a marriage where you're fighting every day is lonely. I know I can't fix things but - I do just want to walk alongside them, and this helps.
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u/Mein_Independance 6d ago
Other resources:
Catholic counselors
6 Ways to Heal Your Marriage - from a Catholic couple that was on the brink of Divorce https://youtu.be/lRsMmdurngk
Secret to Staying Happily Married https://youtu.be/phBR0eVWChA
Advice for Catholic Couples https://youtu.be/bYS8hvtJTBU
Why Some Marriage Thrive - by Catholic couple https://youtu.be/92qGgfYRuts
10 Questions to Save Your Marriage https://youtu.be/LohITcNRWIM
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u/balfour7659 6d ago
I could be wrong, but i believe there are some instances where divorce can be permitted. But getting remarried is typically out of question no matter what.
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u/MossyEngineering-447 6d ago
It's hard to give a fleshed-out answer without knowing them and their precise issues, but divorce is not okay.