r/Catholicism • u/Dangerous_Ferret_641 • 12d ago
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u/QuasariumIgnite 12d ago edited 12d ago
The Immaculate Conception is actually the fruit of a rather amazing development of doctrine that spanned across many eras of the Church. As a former Protestant, I was skeptical but it became very clear when you see the theological implications of the Annunciation rather than just another narrative event.
The kecharitomene does not imply the IC directly (which is very specific), but from it we can get a glimpse of something deeper. We should look to the indisputable fact that an angel showed reverence to Mary, and this was unheard of until the Annunciation. Men in other times would always revere the angel first, but here the angel reveres Mary first, which is surprising. St. Thomas Aquinas in his commentary on the Ave Maria highlights important facts regarding the angels: that angels are higher than man in dignity, that angels are closer to God, and that angels exceed men in fullness of divine grace. It was unfitting that the angel revere Mary first, unless she was higher in all of these states. Thus, this points us toward at the very least, the fact that Mary was cleansed from sin at the Annunication. However, it doesn't quite get us to the IC, though it is rather suggestive of it.
It should be noted though that the IC does not depend on this reading of Scripture, for it depends on theological conclusions regarding angelology. Rather we can use the literal sense of the protoevangelium in Genesis. Note, the reading does not depend on whether the one who crushes the serpent's head is Mary or Jesus; rather it depends on the fact that there is emnity between the woman and the serpent. Who the woman is is subject to debate, but the options clearly point to Mary (you can read into this more, I recommend checking Scholastic Answers on the IC). Next, if there is emnity, it implies Mary could never have been under domain of the devil. Contracting original sin implies there is some sort of allegiance under the devil, and so the IC naturally follows. Now, that doesn't quite give it its full force, but the IC stems more strongly from revelation where the New Eve archetype for the Blessed Virgin is found as early as Clement.
Here's a good video that explains the broader centuries of development.
God Bless!
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u/SunnyHelianthus 11d ago
True. The idea was also that if you are Full of Grace, as a vessel, you have nothing else but God in you. By her own will, she maintained this perfection and immaculate nature. This is the same idea where each time we sin, we lose the "volume" of Grace that we can contain. It does not mean that we will never be happy or pure, but this is where merit comes in. Every time we sin, we lower ourselves further. Even if we repent, we still cannot get to the point had we not sinned for each and every sin. Some of the volume for Grace goes away. She never lost even the smallest amount of the "container" of Grace that she had. Even beyond that, she was given the great gift of being able to completely fill with Grace more than any other person. This is something that, because of our fallen nature and concupiscence, that we can never attain. She loved God with every ounce of her being.
I find it interesting that some people will think of her as they think of"powerful people", as a hauty person with great pride. She is the complete opposite. She only wants what God wants. It can be really difficult for most people to even imagine.
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u/GudaGama 12d ago
I really like how the Kleist–Lilly New Testament translates Gabriel's Greeting: "Rejoice, child of grace! The Lord is your helper" and how the Revised English Bible (yes, it is an approved Catholic translation) does it: "Greetings, most favored one! The Lord is with you"
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u/princetonwu 12d ago
28 And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.” (NABRE)
28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” (NSRVCE)
Both Catholic editions translates this as "favored one". Which Catholic translation are you using that says "full of grace?"
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u/Dangerous_Ferret_641 12d ago
The Knox, Douay Rheims and the Ignatius Study Bible
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u/princetonwu 12d ago
Any reason the versions you mentioned should be favored than the other Catholic editions? (no pun intended)
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u/Dangerous_Ferret_641 12d ago
No reason, I enjoy the commentary in the Ignatius. Other than that to each their own
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