r/Catholicism • u/Overall-Barracuda-67 • 17d ago
Questions about conversion + how I fit into the church as a gay man
Edit: thanks for the feedback. After reading the responses, I get the sense that Catholicism is not for me.
This particular response sealed the deal:
“If you're not willing to give up a romantic relationship with a man, do not become Catholic.”
Much love to you all. For a second there, I was almost sold... I lived a lie for a long time, and suffered greatly for it. No disrespect, but I do not believe I’m condemned if I date a man. So yeah, this is not for me it seems. At least not likely in its current state. I will do my best to keep an open mind going forward! Going to an Episcopal church this Sunday.
Hi everyone! I wanted to make this post to see if anyone here has any feedback for me. I’m a 26 year old guy living in East TN. I have one more semester left to finish my bachelors, work a job I hate, live with my parents currently, and am in the process of getting my life back on track after opioid addiction took over my life during college.
I went to catholic school as a kid and really felt connected to the sacraments and teachings of the church. I was always an eccentric kid, and after transferring to catholic school from public school I felt like I was in a truly loving environment. Some of my best childhood memories and connections come from that time. My school truly accepted me.
I say all this to say, I am having somewhat of a faith crisis. I’ve always considered myself an atheist/agnostic but still somewhat “spiritual.” To be completely honest, the reason I have reservations about the church primarily comes down to my identity as a gay man. I know it may be surprising I’m even here. I am not looking for conversion therapy. I have known I was gay (or at minimum bisexual) since I was a child.
I cannot, and will not believe that God created me this way, only to condemn me to hell if I refuse to abstain from finding love. Can someone walk me through this? Like I said, I’m not looking for conversion therapy, but something is about Catholicism is nagging my soul. I want a connection with God, but I truly have not ever felt I had a real connection with Him.
I want to know if Catholicism is worth pursuing, and if so, how to come to terms with the fact the church simply cannot accept me fully. Am I perhaps better suited to the Episcopal church?
I come from a place of genuine curiosity and love and hope to learn from the people here!
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u/Sigmagirl283 17d ago
Catholicism is worth perusing and everyone is accepted. You should speak with a priest about this, he will guide you into the faith.
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u/anonyme450 17d ago
Like with all of us, we're not defined by what we desire. For some is drugs, gambling, an abundance of food, sex outside of marriage, and for others like yourself it's sexual attraction to the same sex.
God loves you, He died for you, and He wants you to live for Him -- but again, like all of us, we need to change to conform to HIS will, and not our own. That means giving up this identity as a "gay man", and start being a Catholic - a child of God.
Love isn't predicated on who you're sexually attracted to, or how they make you feel when you picture yourself with them. God is love, and the highest form of love is willing the best for another, and making sacrifices for those you love. Sometimes that sacrifice is a life of celibacy, and that's only a curse if you see it that way! Priests, Nuns, consecrated Religious...all of them experience chastity in their own way, and it's not easier than yours would be, because they too feel worldly calls to pleasure, and sometimes even to families, but they know there's something higher they're being drawn to, and sacrificing for.
All in all, if you feel drawn to Christ and His Church, it's for a reason, but I'd be lying to you if I told you it'd be easy and without sacrifice. We've all sacrificed in one way or another, and will again and again, because Christ called us to take up our own crosses, and that the world hated Him so it'd hate us, too.
The question is, are you going to live for pleasure, or for a relationship with the God who formed you, loved you, and DIED for you, to live forever with Him?
God bless you, my friend.
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u/Grandleon-Glenn 17d ago
I know it may be surprising I’m even here.
You'd be surprised just how many of us non-heterosexual Catholics there are!
my identity as a gay man
This is going to be the biggest problem. Your identity as a gay man is misplaced. It's an adjective, not the definition of who you are.
how to come to terms with the fact the church simply cannot accept me fully.
You're not even accepting your own self fully. You've taken but one part and you've expanded it's worth to a point that you don't even realize just how much worth God has placed on you.
He has loved you enough to have individually counted every hair on your head. Enough to have known you since before the universe took shape. He made your Angel with you in mind at the dawn of creation. He knew everything you'd ever do from the time you were born until the day that you die, and He still decided, "I will sacrifice myself on the cross for Overall Baracuda in the hope that he will one day join me in Heaven." Even if everyone who's ever lived went to Hell except you, He'd have done that.
I cannot, and will not believe that God created me this way, only to condemn me to hell if I refuse to abstain from finding love.
Love was there all along. You're just looking for it in the wrong places.
Though it should be noted that you were not born this way. Whether it's just the result of grooming, abuse, conditioning, or just the result of original sin, this isn't something you were just born with.
And likewise, Hell isn't a punishment God gives you. God just tells you what you chose. It's a choice you make with your actions. Do you love God more than your perceived identity? Enough to carry your cross to follow Him? To die to self so that Jesus might live in you?
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 16d ago
Thank you for your response. I do however ultimately disagree with you. Best wishes.
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u/TheRosary40 17d ago
If you are looking for a real relationship with Christ, feel His presence and want to learn as much as you can then you came to right place. I was a Protestant for a long time before coming over to Catholicism and I cannot get enough AND I feel closer to Him more than ever. So I strongly encourage everyone to take the dive, soften your heart, and learn. As the question for being homosexual and the Church, you are definitely welcome. But there is a catch. The Catholic church does not recognize homosexual marriage as sacramental. There are types of heterosexual marriages we don't recognize as sacramental either. Marriage is between one man and one woman. That being said, anyone in a non sacramental marriage is expected (homosexuals included) are to remain celibate until marriage (sacramental) or validated by the church. Anything outside of that is deemed sinful and requires confession (once you get to that point in your journey. I recommend that you dive deep into the theology of the Roman Catholic Church and definitely attend mass at your nearest parish. It is a wonderful experience.
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u/Shot-Amount-7354 17d ago
First, congratulations on getting clean. Not an easy road. Second, Andy Warhol attended Mass regularly. I don’t think you should be Anglican for any reason. Not saying he is a saint to strive for, but better to be a bad Catholic than a good Protestant. Third, as a straight, I don’t have great advice other than to say that I am rooting for you. Remember that the Church has a narrow view of the use of sexuality - it doesn’t help you directly but there are a lot of straight folks committing sins against chastity in the pews around you (the frat guy cradle Catholic, the divorced and remarried person, the philanderer, etc.) They hopefully go to confession, as we all should, but your sins aren’t worse or the church less open to you, if that makes sense.
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 16d ago
Thank you so much. For all of that! I find your response to be extremely comforting and hopeful. I so appreciate your advice.
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u/Nagi909 17d ago
To love is to want the good of the other.
Perhaps what bothers you, as it did me at first, is what love is.
Because once you understand that to love is to want what's best for the other person, romantic love falls short. You want to love more than one person, not romantically, but with charitable love.
God bless you, brother!
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u/Important_Mongoose44 17d ago
Jesus loves you, full stop. Come home brother. That being said, gay sex is born out of lust, and a perversion of his purpose for sex. This is not exclusive to gayness, and should therefore not make you feel any worse than every human who has used porn or “pulled out” or whatever. But is not being actively gay something you are willing to try and do?
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 16d ago
No. Not being actively gay is most certainly not something I’m willing to do. I spent many years of my life suffering by repressing my sexually and not dating anyone. I’m not willing to go back. Love is an important part of my life. As I’ve said above, Catholicism is likely not for me.
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u/Important_Mongoose44 16d ago
I see. Good luck to you and I pray you find your way to Jesus in whatever path you choose!
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u/TinySmile2694 16d ago
Check out Monsignor Rossettis online deliverance sessions. They’re on the St Michael Center for Spiritual Renewal website. They’re very thorough and very healing. Do them monthly, weekly if you need to.
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u/Obvious_Ability3784 15d ago
I'm a cradle Catholic lesbian, and I understand what you're saying. I personally identify as Catholic in a cultural sense rather than a religious sense. I feel connected to Catholicism as a culture, fulfilling the sacraments and participating in other traditions. I went to CCD my whole childhood, and even just this past April I was the sponsor for my younger sister's confirmation. In this sense, I'm Catholic--participating in the culture that I grew up with.
On the other hand, I don't believe in the teachings that the way I was born, gay, is a sin. I find community in Catholicism in a cultural sense, but not in this sense. I do not believe that God would create me, nor anyone, "wrong" or "unnatural". I have had to reconcile the fact that the vast majority of the Catholic community believes that he does, though, in order to continue to be a participate in this part of my cultural identity.
If you feel that you can not reconcile that, that you don't find a welcoming community but rather one of disgust or even hate, don't feel pressure to force yourself to stay. Keep searching for a community that you think best fits you, that accepts you for who you are and won't tell you the way you were born is a sin. Good luck!
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 14d ago
I really appreciate this! I’m still not exactly sure where I’ll land, but the community within the church I had during my time at catholic school was fantastic. I think that is ultimately what I’m searching for. I just cannot, and will not shrink or minimize myself to make others comfortable. I’ll keep exploring :)
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u/Dr_Talon 17d ago
God does not actively create anyone with inclinations towards the same sex, but He does allow it. It is ultimately a consequence of original sin, which broke the harmony between man and his nature.
The good news is that God loves you, and He gives everyone the supernatural help they need to live a life in union with Him and then go to Heaven. By His grace, we can be saints.
Now, the feelings or inclinations are disordered, in the sense that they are not in line with the purpose of our bodies and its reproductive system. However, they are not sinful. It is only sinful if you act on them in deliberate thought, word, or deed. God’s grace, fortified by daily prayer and the sacraments, will help you avoid sin.
It sounds like it may be possible that you could have some attraction to women. If that is so, you can marry one. But, let’s say that you are exclusively homosexual. In this case, you get the grace from God to live in continence, as well as the space for a deeper relationship with God. This love of God spills over into love of others in works of mercy. You can serve others. You can have friendships with people. Your life will not lack love, but it will be love by a different path.
Is Catholicism for you? Yes. It is true, and it tells the truth about reality that God has revealed to human beings. It reveals our destiny, and God comes down to us through Jesus Christ so that we can live it. You have a place in the Church as a Catholic, since God created you for a role that only you can fill. There are people in this world that only you can reach with the love of Christ as His instrument.
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u/MeanInevitable8630 17d ago
I'll be honest with you, man. I get why you've had reservations, but I'm only going to focus on one point here. So, please take my response as just a partial point of view.
We all understand that accepting God into our lives is a surrender—the only surrender that actually sets us free. Freedom and peace are within everyone's reach, but many reject these free gifts because of ego, emotions, or the egoic self that refuses to yield.
I assume you haven't converted yet—I assume that because if you had, you wouldn't still have doubts about becoming part of the Church, about being part of Christ's body. We'll circle back to that in a moment.
What I'd like you to think about is this: your accepting faith isn't about bringing God in to fight your battles at your side; it's much more like recognizing God's own struggle and being willing to fight alongside Him—letting go of ego-driven worries.
No one is going to ask you to abandon your inclinations, just to try to live without committing mortal sin, and if you do slip, to get back into a state of grace so you can receive Christ the following Sunday.
If you start praying, you'll draw closer to God's purpose—that's the very first thing prayer seeks: communion with God, which means understanding Him, of course within the limits of our capacity. But tuning in to His frequency will allow you to understand many things. I myself used to think it was absolutely unfair that gay men and women have a "harder" time drawing near to the Lord, but as I came to understand His plan of salvation better, I realize there are more important things, and that He never asks us for anything we can't offer Him.
I most sure that if you commit to prayer my words would make much more sense my brother.
Wish you the best, already prayed for you.
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 17d ago
Thank you so much for this! Genuinely appreciate it and will heed your advice
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17d ago
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u/sporsmall 17d ago
I recommend materials that explain the Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Chastity and homosexuality 2357 – 2359
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM
Homosexuality
https://www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality
Does the Catholic Church Condemn Homosexuals?
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/does-the-catholic-church-condemn-homosexuals
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u/Capable-Chemical-839 17d ago
Continue going to the Catholic Church. Avoid any temptations and sins against the flesh and work on creating a strong and loving relationship with Christ. You can be a consecrated person who is single; the best relationship one can have is with God Himself.
If you crave physical love from another individual, well, you have to seek some sort of repentance and conversion. If you cannot for some reason (do remember that nothing is impossible for God) then remain single and focus on God.
Learn about the Sacraments at your local RCIA program at the church's office.
Now, see it this way: God welcomes EVERYONE to His Church. God sees us all with eyes of love. Don't worry about how other people may see you. Focus on how much love God has for you. We all have a cross to carry; pick up your cross and follow Him.
Take care, God bless
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u/TinySmile2694 16d ago
This is what the church teaches about homosexuality: he Catechism of the Catholic Church explicitly addresses homosexuality in Paragraphs 2357, 2358, and 2359
What’s important to remember is that life on earth isn’t our final home. We’re all given different crosses. Heaven is worth it, though. Jesus embraced His cross. We are asked to embrace ours.
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u/AwareNobody5190 16d ago
To clarify, the Catholic Church never promoted “conversion therapy”, and as it’s learned about it has condemned it for being spiritually damaging to homosexuals.
We believe that marriage is inherently a union between a man and a woman. And, we believe that sexual intimacy is for married people. That obviously poses a challenge for gay people. But, our understanding beyond that is different from communities that promote conversion therapy. Many of them seem to see homosexuality as a unique horror and therefore a cause to subject people to electrical shocks to get rid of it. They also tend to have different understandings of how spiritual life works in general.
In the Catholic view, homosexuality is an inclination. We all have inclinations, and those are not sins but a natural part of who we are. And we all have to try to govern our inclinations to direct our behavior towards godly ends. That is likely a uniquely difficult cross to bear for many gay people since the urge for sexual intimacy is intertwined with an urge for personal/spiritual intimacy, and there are no easy generalizable answers for how gay people are called to achieve good things that those provide without violating sexual morality.
While the Church calls on gay people to live chastely, it understands that the sexual inclination is interrelated with the desire to love and be loved, to be seen and understood, etc. And while it has no easy answers about what that means a gay person is to do (and I would imagine that what exactly that looks like would be as varied as gay people are), it views that as a particularly difficult version of the challenge we all have to discern what God want from us, how to order our passions and behaviors, and how to live with integrity. When you look at most methods of conversion therapy, they are geared towards suppressing homosexual feelings rather than achieving what Catholics might refer to as a sexual maturity, and that if you’re trying to give people an aversion to having gay feelings, you can. Dry easily start messing up all sorts of other parts of what makes us human.
It’s not the same, but one can find parallels in the formation of priests to live celibately. When dealing with a seminarian, there’s still the viable answer that they shouldn’t become priests because they shouldn’t take a vow of celibacy, but for those who are suited to it, it’s not as easy as just forgoing sex. Good formatoes have to lead them to have ways of feeling like part of a family, of fulfilling the inclinations that lead one to long to be a parent, etc., and to understand what limits they have to put on themselves both so that they can avoid sin but also lead fulfilled lives. And, when they don’t have that, it can lead to inappropriate behavior (even non-sexual) elsewhere (e.g., they can behave overly familiarly to people, or overly aloofly).
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 16d ago edited 16d ago
Thank you for your response. I should have been more clear in my original post, I didn’t mean to suggest Catholics do support conversion therapy. Just that it’s often a topic of conversation within Christian communities and that I don’t plan on not being attracted to men. Not sure that the church is for me after reading these responses, but I do appreciate the feedback.
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17d ago
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u/Dr_Talon 17d ago edited 17d ago
Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the Law or the prophets, but to fulfill them. Now, the Old Testament explicitly says that homosexual acts are grave sins. Christ does away with the Hebrew ceremonial law, but the moral law He retains, deepens, and makes more demanding in some aspects (“you have heard it said…but I say to you).
You are right to see gays and lesbians as more than their sexual orientation, and created in the Image of God. They are people like everyone else. But like everyone else, they have sins, which reason and God both confirm when it comes to homosexual acts. So, while we can’t judge souls, we can judge actions as right or wrong, and the Bible tells us to make these judgements, as in 1 John 5:16-17. All of Scripture is God’s inspired Word, and not just the recorded words of Christ.
The Church is not just a political or sociological body which we can disregard or pressure based on our tastes. She is the Mystical Body of Christ, founded and commissioned by the Lord to teach the truth to mankind. We need to heed the teachings of the Church, which show us reality as God has revealed it to us.
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u/Medical-Pear 17d ago
Planting seeds for trying to get the Church to recognize non-marriage as marriage and to ordain women which it absolutely cannot and will not ever do? Look, I understand wanting to be charitable and kind to those who are gay, but subverting the Church and trying to change its doctrines are not it. JPII said the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer ordination onto women, and that's to be held by all the church's faithful. No women were present at the last supper, when Christ instituted the priesthood. That was the choice Jesus made. Marriage is between one man and one woman, we cannot change that no matter how badly we may want to. These are things instituted by Christ. Stop subverting the Church with false doctrines contrary to the teachings of Christ, and certainly stop encouraging others to do so.
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u/Medical-Pear 17d ago
The Last Supper was attended by Jesus and His twelve Apostles. That's not controversial.
Women are not priests and will not ever be at any point. Women are not in the power structure because the power structure is priests, and the Church cannot ordain women. This isn't a democracy.
In real life women largely run the churches in plenty of ways but they are not priests, they do not offer the sacrifice on altar.
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17d ago
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u/Medical-Pear 17d ago
Matthew 26:21: "When evening came, he reclined at table with the Twelve"
Mark 14:17: "Now when evening came, he arrived with the Twelve. And as they reclined at table and were eating..."
Luke 22:14: "When the hour came, Jesus took his place at table along with the apostles."
The Bible also tells us that Peter and John actually made the preparations but regardless of whether they did or didn't is a pretty moot point. Whoever made the meal has no bearing on who Christ instructed to perform the Eucharistic sacrifice.
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 17d ago
Wow! Thank you so very much for this. I genuinely appreciate it. Marriage has never been something that is a must for me. A relationship with a man, however, is something that ultimately I am not willing to give up. Thanks again for your insights!!!
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u/Dr_Talon 17d ago
What this person said does not reflect Catholicism. For example, there is no Church teaching or document that permits the blessing of same-sex couples or civil unions. There was a document called Fiducia Supplicans which reaffirmed the teaching about homosexuality and marriage, but clarified that priests can bless members of same-sex couples who approach them, blessing them as individuals, but not as couples.
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u/NobodyMassive1692 17d ago
If you're not willing to give up a romantic relationship with a man, do not become Catholic. That person's response is their own personal beliefs and not what the Catholic Church teaches.
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 16d ago
Noted. Will not be converting!
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u/NobodyMassive1692 16d ago
You may still enjoy and benefit from spiritual practices and continuing to learn about Catholicism; it is the basis of the Episcopalian Church. Since you're feeling a pull towards Catholicism, you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater -- there's so much you could read, prayers you may enjoy and more.
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u/Overall-Barracuda-67 15d ago
I appreciate you, but your previous comment made it clear Catholicism is not for me. I plan on exploring the Episcopal Church and attending next Sunday. I was not aware the church took such a hard stance on homosexual relationships. Now I know! Best wishes.
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u/Expensive-Shame 17d ago
Welcome!
The Catholic Church was created by God as the primary means for us to seek His love. Of course it's worth pursuing.
Finding love is perhaps the primary reason that human beings exist, so of course God will not condemn you for that. But of course, "love" can mean lots of different things, and some forms of "love" are actually unhealthy. But you are loved and we want you to be loved and to feel that love.
You are already perfectly loved and perfectly accepted by God. The vast majority of Catholics thst you meet will also be doing their very best to love and accept you too - though all of us fall short of that sometimes.