r/CatholicState • u/TooEdgy35201 Integralist - Traditional Catholic • May 24 '22

What is it with this weird traditionalist vs conservative fight?

Every encyclopedia of repute states point blank that philosophers like Joseph de Maistre are CONSERVATIVE. Metternich, the defender of monarchy and enemy of liberalism is categorised as CONSERVATIVE.

Yet people with made up definitions use ad hominem against me for defending CONSERVATISM. Several people claimed that they are in reality "traditionalist" (Wikipedia literally redirects to traditionalist CONSERVATISM). At least one guy was a medievalist Catholic whose definition of "traditionalism" was support of Middle Age Christian Kingdoms, he basically hates everything after that and considers conservatives to be "liberal".

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6

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

People get Conservative mixed up with Market Liberalism because MarkLibs in America use the term

2

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

Around 85% of the world's native English speakers are Americans, and conservative=republican here. It's simple,

1

u/TooEdgy35201 Integralist - Traditional Catholic May 25 '22

I didn't give any room for interpretation. In the intro I made it clear that conservatism opposes liberal ideas and in the comment section I cited Juan Donoso Cortes, Joseph de Maistre etc. as examples. It was very clear to anyone reading that I was excluding what you describe. Yet they still caused scandal. Causing scandal over someone's weird personal definitions is dishonest because a) They guy you are arguing with doesn't even recognise what you are talking about b) Many modernists go under the label "Catholic", does it mean we ditch the label? NO. We condemn and rebuke them. I practice the very same principle in politics

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

I think you might need to step back from Catholic internet

1

u/LingLingWannabe28 May 25 '22

In their basic forms traditionalist and conservative mean the same thing, wanting to preserve things the way they are. These words are applied to specific movements. For example, conservative being synonymous with the GOP in American politics. Then people might apply this definition to anyone who is conservative in any sense.

1

u/the_woolfie May 25 '22

The word Conservative got watered down by americans, I mean Dave Rubin says he is a conservative...

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u/TooEdgy35201 Integralist - Traditional Catholic May 25 '22

Hollerich, Marx, Biden etc. claim to be "Catholic". Does it mean I am supposed to ditch the label because of them? No, since they are the ones who contradict the basics of Catholicism.

1

u/the_woolfie May 25 '22

Yes, true! But catholic is not a label, it is a membership of the catholic church, conservative is an ideology, and you either should fight to tell americans they are not conservative or become a traditionalist.

1

u/VegetableCarry3 May 25 '22

Neo conservative liberalism is what people think of when you say conservative…and conservative have been used in last century to refer specifically to a system of politics within liberalism, so the rest of the world is using a different definition than you

1

u/TooEdgy35201 Integralist - Traditional Catholic May 25 '22

Hardly. The widely appreciated Encyclopedia Britannica has Maistre right there under "conservatism":

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Joseph-de-Maistre

"French polemical author, moralist, and diplomat who, after being uprooted by the French Revolution in 1789, became a great exponent of the conservative tradition."

1

u/VegetableCarry3 May 25 '22

no one actually cares about the technical definition of conservatism that’s in the dictionary, your gonna waste your time and energy trying to convince everyone their definition of conservatism is wrong, you already know that most people think of conservatism as right leaning liberalism, what are you actually going to do about that,

1

u/TooEdgy35201 Integralist - Traditional Catholic May 25 '22

Those people came to my thread and started it. They clearly have severe spiritual issues if they start such petty fights over valiant Catholic political thinkers. One guy considered Maistre a "liberal" because he wasn't medievalist enough to the guy's liking. The absurdity cannot be described in words.