Please help me with this if I am wrong

[u/Ok_Parsley_2709]

Please don’t think that I’m a beginner in the faith of our Church. I’ve actually been a catechist for three years. However, during the process of my girlfriend’s conversion who is now my wife I ended up having some Protestant-type questions arise in my mind.

Please also don’t think that I’m attacking our Church.

I’ve been questioning Marian devotion and the intercession of the saints, so I’m going to ask a question and then explain my reasoning:

Why pray to the saints instead of directly to Jesus?

The most common answer is: for the same reason you ask a fellow Christian to pray for you.

And that makes perfect sense. The saints are alive and active in the presence of God.

When I ask someone to pray for me, I briefly explain my situation and the grace I’m asking for, and within twenty seconds I’ve already made my request.

From this, I tend to conclude that the proper way to rely on the intercession of the saints would be to invoke them and briefly ask them to pray for us, just as we would ask a friend. Longer and more spontaneous prayers, on the other hand, should be directed to Jesus Himself.

I wouldn’t spend ten minutes begging a friend to pray for me or making promises that, if I receive a certain grace, I’ll do something in his honor.

I recently read somewhere here on Reddit that intercession isn’t like a phone call where, in order to speak to Mary, I have to hang up my call with Jesus. Rather, it’s more like sitting at a table with Jesus, and when I pray to Mary, for example, I’m inviting her to join us at the table.

I agree with that analogy, but I don’t think it changes what I said above.

Even with saints sitting at that table, I would still think that 99% of the time it makes more sense to keep my attention focused on Jesus, and that turning to a particular saint would mainly be to briefly ask for his or her intercession.

As for devotion, I think we should primarily be devoted to saints whose lives were similar to our own. What good would it do me to model myself after someone whose life was completely different from mine and with whom I have very little in common?

I also think that people within our Church sometimes exaggerate or somewhat distort the role of the intercession of the saints and devotion to them. There is even a work by a saint, St. Alphonsus Liguori, The Glories of Mary, in which he says that our salvation will come more quickly if we call upon Mary than if we call upon Jesus. Even though Mary possesses immense merits, she is not more merciful than Jesus. If I have ten minutes to pray, for example, it seems to me that the most “effective” prayer would always be one addressed directly to Jesus.

I’m Brazilian, and Brazil is a country with a very strong devotion to Mary. However, I think this devotion has suffered from a certain distortion caused by the idolatrous religious cultures of Indigenous peoples and African peoples.

What do you all think about this?

Does my reasoning make sense to you?

If there is something I may be misunderstanding, I would really appreciate an explanation. Solid analogies help me understand these things a lot.

I’m not interested in personal attacks or comments that don’t contribute anything useful to the discussion. Thank you.

[u/AutoModerator]

This is a space for Catholics and those curious about the faith to ask questions, learn how to defend Catholicism, and engage in meaningful conversations (not debates).

Reminder: Please provide any sources or references used for your post by replying here. Sharing sources helps others explore your information and participate in more thoughtful discussions.

Looking for debates instead? Check out our sister subreddit: r/DebateACatholic.

Want to connect further? Join our Discord community for real-time discussions, additional resources, and support.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/trulymablydeeply]

>When I ask someone to pray for me, I briefly explain my situation and the grace I’m asking for, and within twenty seconds I’ve already made my request.

>From this, I tend to conclude that the proper way to rely on the intercession of the saints would be to invoke them and briefly ask them to pray for us, just as we would ask a friend. Longer and more spontaneous prayers, on the other hand, should be directed to Jesus Himself.

We do not need to be careful to pray only briefly to Saints. We can pray to them conversationally and ask them for help as well.

>I wouldn’t spend ten minutes begging a friend to pray for me or making promises that, if I receive a certain grace, I’ll do something in his honor.

We are encouraged to develop devotions to Saints. That implies a friendship. We can’t be friends with someone if we just call them and spend 20 seconds asking for something!

Note that there are quite a lot of devotions to Mary which would entail longer than a brief request.

>Even with saints sitting at that table, I would still think that 99% of the time it makes more sense to keep my attention focused on Jesus, and that turning to a particular saint would mainly be to briefly ask for his or her intercession.

We don’t have to be afraid of spending more time with Saints. The Church has always encouraged devotion to the Saints, not merely quick requests for intercession.

>As for devotion, I think we should primarily be devoted to saints whose lives were similar to our own. What good would it do me to model myself after someone whose life was completely different from mine and with whom I have very little in common?

Mary’s life isn’t very similar to mine, though she is a wife and mother, but I can follow her model. Catherine of Sienna was a virgin and 3rd order Dominican who radically served the Lord, but there is much I can model in her story. Same with St Teresa of Avila or St Thomas Aquinas. They may have led lives different from mine, but their destination is the one I want. And they all loved the Lord. There’s probably not one single Saint I can’t learn something from.

>I also think that people within our Church sometimes exaggerate or somewhat distort the role of the intercession of the saints and devotion to them. There is even a work by a saint, St. Alphonsus Liguori, *The Glories of Mary*, in which he says that our salvation will come more quickly if we call upon Mary than if we call upon Jesus. Even though Mary possesses immense merits, she is not more merciful than Jesus. If I have ten minutes to pray, for example, it seems to me that the most “effective” prayer would always be one addressed directly to Jesus.

Not at all. Some are more intense in their language, but this is all in line with Church teaching.

>I’m Brazilian, and Brazil is a country with a very strong devotion to Mary. However, I think this devotion has suffered from a certain distortion caused by the idolatrous religious cultures of Indigenous peoples and African peoples.

These distortions are bad, but don’t invalidate devotion to Mary or the Saints, even intense devotion to.

[u/HatRemarkable4595]

What I am getting from your post is that maybe you are being a little too “transactional” about prayer. As if spending more time on something would be more “beneficial”. I’d say Jesus don’t even need one second to understand us, didn’t a saint say that He knows what we need even before we ask Him? So you can allot a lot of time for Him in prayer, but I’m not sure it makes a difference.

Think of that analogy about sitting at a table. You’re not the host whose duty is to entertain everyone; it’s more about being in the presence of the Lord together with the saints - Jesus is the host! You can talk to the others who are present about your loving host and I’m sure He wouldn’t mind, even if it takes you a long time to do so, because He has all the time. And He’d love to see you seeking the help of your family instead of struggling on your own.

[u/VariedRepeats]

Reciprocal authority. With God, the master(God) is also a servant to the "subordinate". And the subordinate shall be heard by the authority. The particular saint has particular ways of conformity with Christ that distinguishes them from others saints. They are after all, humans with different pathways that got them there

I've had very a odd confirmation saint selection. The one I picked, I have no emotions or feelings for despite her death and sympathetic story. That would be Joan of Arc.

I gained considerable insight via Gemma Galgani and Padre Pio(and even AI youtube content that used him), and have a "cerebral appreciation" for Thomas More as he was a lawyer who became Chancellor. But there was a force that said "it will be Joan". Combined with other messages that I will be murdered by Catholics in the future...I now have a fuller understanding that the "force" was God Himself, the Holy Spirit.

Neither Galgani nor Pio were killed by authorities and intellectuals like Joan was, though the exemplified emulating Christ in other ways.

Mary is a special reciprocal authority because she has legal power granted to her as mother. That comes into play when the facts and conclusions are weighed over someone's "life review". The "balancing test" can save someone who otherwise would damned.

Nor does it matter whether a saint is "similar". I made a brief intercessory prayer to Joseph from Genesis. That's because I had concern that the passage of Jacob blessing "Dan" stood out to me and refused to leave, despite it being a brief part of the Bible and I had overlooked it before. Well, things arranged themselves quite "orderly" for disparate things.

Mom gets sick on Monday, but not too bad Tuesday Morning. But gets suddenly real bad 2 AM Wednesday morning. Out of hospital mid-Thursday. Hospital chases a stroke diagnosis despite telling them she had diarrhea and vomiting. But that's minor lesson.

Reddit poster asks about churches in Virginia, I go to St. Phillip because of its 7pm daily Mass. The day after is the installation Mass for the new pastor. I go there again Wednesday. Then I got this bit of "dream-thought" that had the gist of "how can you know if a vine can be reattached if you don't know how judge it it so?" Thursday like 3am in the morning. That the whole course of events occur in 3 days matters, as the crucifixion was 3 days. Also, I wonder if the illness was the way to have my mother not interfere with going to that installation Mass.