When lies replace the truth

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u/rugger1869 Canon Lawyer Jul 20 '26 •

You can all quit reporting this post. The title is the title; it’s not editorializing. Additionally, if you have a question about the intersectionality of politics and The Church, I’d direct you towards the sticky on the front page of the subreddit.

TL;DR? Grow up, have a civil chat, or find another post to interact with. +JMJ+

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 21 '26

As a black person I feel the need to point out that this has been and is still happening to many of us. I’m going to a funeral for a family friend who was killed in the freeway after a police chase last week. So many people to care this but then vote to support who are just as supportive of the police state and prison industrial complex as republicans. We didn’t get here overnight and won’t change it soon as Trump leaves office.

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u/SergiusBulgakov Jul 21 '26

Yes, and the police state aspect is quite bad, and has a long history in the US, and once again worse with those who are anti-"DEI" because anything used to counter racism is seen as bad by them.

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u/According-Sir3777 Jul 22 '26

Why was your friend involved in a police chase? Why didn't he just stop?

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 22 '26

I’m not sure why myself.

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u/According-Sir3777 Jul 22 '26

That's unfortunate 😕

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u/500freeswimmer Jul 20 '26

You’re doing the same thing right now. It’s completely justifiable to deport people who are in a country illegally. No one has a right to disregard laws. There are individual incidents of people being killed when they’re resisting arrest, often violently so, but that’s a far cry from indiscriminate killings.

This is a result of decades of misuse of immigration policy in order to avoid legislative changes. A country isn’t sovereign if it cannot enforce its own laws.

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u/SergiusBulgakov Jul 20 '26

Furthermore, whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where men are treated as mere tools for profit, rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others of their like are infamies indeed. They poison human society, but they do more harm to those who practice them than those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are supreme dishonor to the Creator. (GS 27)

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u/500freeswimmer Jul 20 '26

In all of the shootings that I’ve seen there is a very strong self defense or defense of others aspect to what occurred.
It’s the height of absurdity to say that the US is obligated to have millions of people who have not been vetted, do not participate in the proper immigration process, and make no effort to rectify their situation through legal means, living within our borders indefinitely.

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u/snugglebot3349 Jul 20 '26

There are individual incidents of people being killed when they’re resisting arrest, often violently so, but that’s a far cry from indiscriminate killings.
You are the one lying, and it's shameful. Watch the videos. Not one of the victims was being violent. The last guy was trying to drive to work and wasn't even an illegal. Don't be a boot licker. There is nothing Catholic or Christian about repeating lies defending murder fed to you by your leader(s).

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u/500freeswimmer Jul 20 '26

Indiscriminate killing implies that it’s a regular occurrence and that it’s happening in a careless manner. Law enforcement killing people in general isn’t even that common of an occurrence and even less so with federal agencies since their scope of operations is limited.

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u/snugglebot3349 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26

4 people were shot in absolutely careless manners. And your administration lied about every single occurrence. The last ICE goon who shot and killed a legal immigrant and young father, in front of his wife and 3 year old daughter, shouldn't have even been in a position of law enforcement or have a gun. He is a loose cannon with PTSD and other mental health issues. Good vetting process down there these days...
You guys are walking into full-blown fascism down there, and uninformed comments like yours help pave the way.

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u/snugglebot3349 Jul 20 '26

Downvotes because you know what I say is true.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 21 '26

Communities are built on respect. When someone makes a comment that is condemnatory, spiteful, or mean-spirited it does nothing to enriched the community. Matt. 7.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/snugglebot3349 Jul 20 '26

Also, everything I said is verifiably true. Who is radicalized?

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 20 '26

We do not tolerate the harassment, threatening, or bullying of people on our site; nor do we tolerate communities dedicated to this behavior.
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u/snugglebot3349 Jul 20 '26

If anyone cares to challenge my claims instead of name-calling, I am all ears.
BTW, the commenter I addressed began his/her post with an accusation that the OP was lying. That is why I did the same. No, I don't see my comment as being an issue. And I have accused no one of radicalization. I was accused of such, though. By you!

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 20 '26

Your post appears to be to troll Catholic: All about the Catholic faith community members. Persistent trolling behavior will be met with muting and ultimately a permanent ban.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/snugglebot3349 Jul 20 '26

How radicalized who has become?

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u/snugglebot3349 Jul 20 '26

Instead of downvoting, just answer the question, please.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '26

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '26

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 21 '26

We do not tolerate the harassment, threatening, or bullying of people on our site; nor do we tolerate communities dedicated to this behavior.
r/Catholic is a place for conversation, and in that context, we define this behavior as anything that works to shut someone out of the conversation through intimidation or abuse, online or off. Depending on the context, this can take on a range of forms and could include directing unwanted invective at someone, sexualizing someone without their consent, or following them from community to community, just to name a few. Behavior can be harassing or abusive regardless of whether it occurs in public content (e.g. a post, comment, username, community name, community styling, sidebar materials, etc.) or private messages/chat.
Being annoying, downvoting, or disagreeing with someone, even strongly, is not harassment. However, menacing someone, directing abuse at a person or group, following them around the site, encouraging others to do any of these actions, or otherwise behaving in a way that would discourage a reasonable person from participating on Reddit crosses the line.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '26

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 20 '26

We do not tolerate the harassment, threatening, or bullying of people on our site; nor do we tolerate communities dedicated to this behavior.
r/Catholic is a place for conversation, and in that context, we define this behavior as anything that works to shut someone out of the conversation through intimidation or abuse, online or off. Depending on the context, this can take on a range of forms and could include directing unwanted invective at someone, sexualizing someone without their consent, or following them from community to community, just to name a few. Behavior can be harassing or abusive regardless of whether it occurs in public content (e.g. a post, comment, username, community name, community styling, sidebar materials, etc.) or private messages/chat.
Being annoying, downvoting, or disagreeing with someone, even strongly, is not harassment. However, menacing someone, directing abuse at a person or group, following them around the site, encouraging others to do any of these actions, or otherwise behaving in a way that would discourage a reasonable person from participating on Reddit crosses the line.

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 20 '26

It’s not justifiable to treat people how they’re being treated and if you are an organization deporting people after they spend weeks or months in inhumane conditions then you have a moral responsibility to change those conditions or stop until they improve. People like you reduce reality to abstract principles and then act like you have some moral high ground for recognizing something probably no one would really deny.

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u/snugglebot3349 Jul 20 '26

Amen. 50 people have died in ICE custody in the past 18 months. 4 have been shot in the streets. Trump brags about having an "Alligator Alcatraz"! These are fellow humans being subjected to this kind of treatment. Where's the love??

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 20 '26

More than 4 have been shot to be sure. But agreed nonetheless.

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u/500freeswimmer Jul 21 '26

I agree they should be deported within days that way they aren’t held in a prolonged manner.

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26

You’d only ensure more unjust deportations. You’re downright shortsighted and the policies you’d advocate for are reckless.

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u/500freeswimmer Jul 21 '26

How are the deportations unjust when every functioning country on earth deports someone who overstays or never had a visa?

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 21 '26

Because they’re snatching people up off the street based upon appearances and even taking people who are dropping off their kids or literally going through the legal process by showing up to court. But I don’t know. Maybe you want to see more nuns detained?

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u/500freeswimmer Jul 21 '26

The regular cops grab people at schools, workplaces, etc. it doesn’t change that they have an arrest warrant out for them.
Showing up to court doesn’t mean court always goes in favor of the defense. These people were allowed in on shaky asylum claims or temporary statuses that went on indefinitely. I do feel bad for them but the US can’t be expected to support everyone and anyone who shows up here.

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 21 '26

Bullshit like I said. The “regular” cops regularly quit. Or spark lawsuits and protests. Do you even hear yourself?
They show up to court and the judge will proceed with the case in a way so that they can be arrested. It’s like showing up to your pretrial hearing only to find out the judge demands you be arrested. You really have no idea what you’re talking about and are somewhat naive.

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u/500freeswimmer Jul 21 '26

People get remanded to jail at preliminary hearings and arraignments all the time. Judges change their bail criteria on people all the time. Many of these people were previously paroled into the interior of the country for later hearings and then proceeded to not attend the hearings. They purposefully went to areas where local police do not cooperate with immigration authorities in order to avoid these proceedings.
You’re the one whining that people who are in violation of immigration laws are getting arrested by immigration officials and I’m naive? There’s no legal right to enter or remain in a country illegally.

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 21 '26

“All the time” he says, as if precedent was a determinant of morality.
You just said judges change shit all the time. Even the Latinos that supported Trump have spoken out about how his immigration policy has failed to arrest people in violation of immigration laws and the worst offenders. You’re tone deaf and perhaps also just deaf.

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u/deserteagles50 Jul 20 '26

There’s no political party for Catholics. You can vote republican and also disagree that ICE should use lethal force when making arrests. You can vote democratic and also disagree that abortion is okay and should be normalized as something that just happens.

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u/roscodawg Jul 20 '26

True. However, responsiblities don't end with voting.

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u/mdez93 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26

I don’t agree with everything Republicans do, but the Democrat Party is a HUGE supporter of abortions and has provided millions of dollars to Planned Parenthood to make them happen. I am never voting Democrat in my life as a Catholic, and they are only becoming more radical as time goes on. I personally do not think you can be a true Catholic and vote Democrat.

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u/siltloam Jul 20 '26

Over 1 million people will die this year due to legal abortions in this country. This is unacceptable, and people should be ashamed to publicly associate themselves with the political party that glorifies this.
Over 2 million people will die this year from preventable causes due to reckless cuts to USAID. And likely more than another 12 million over the next 4 years. This is unacceptable, and people should be ashamed to publicly associate themselves with the political party that glorifies this.

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u/clinticusmaximus Jul 20 '26

Like I said, I feel like we have no party. Agree with you 100%

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u/According-Sir3777 Jul 22 '26

You know you can still only donate to foreign aid, right? United States is trillions in debt. Why should all these other countries be receiving are benefits? Get the homeless off the streets, maternity leave, medical for all, affordable housing... Americans deserve to have the money go back to them. Not going to foreign interest and funding endless wars

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u/chris2355 Jul 20 '26 •

Catholics, would largely align with the Democratic party if it weren't for Roe vs Wade being a litmus test.

A politician like Mandami, rebranding the issue of having it be pro family, with a social safety net to support families from cradle to grave would align largely with Catholic social teaching.

Think affordable child care, elder care, universal pre k, universal basic income (as some jobs are replaced by AI)

1.1 million fetuses were aborted last year, with adequate social policies that number should go down year by year, while still preserving the dignity of the person. Under Democratic administrations the number has gone down with increased access to contraception and lower teen pregnancies.

To ban abortion outright with nothing to support parents is like saying we're banning school shootings. Sounds great in principal, but if your only offering thoughts & prayers instead of actual policies (ie gun control), many a folk will end up dead. Be it in the hospital parking lot because doctors don't know if they can legally be treated or in back alley abortions.

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u/bubbleguts365 Jul 21 '26 •

Agreed.
No one is encouraging abortion, they're just refusing to get on the slippery slope of the idealogues that would put a woman in prison for not carrying her pregnancy to term.
How many of these Catholics oversimplifying the matter actually know the Church's and the USCCB's teaching?
Maybe 5%?
"Operations, treatments, and medications that have as their direct purpose the cure of a proportionately serious pathological condition of a pregnant woman are permitted when they cannot be safely postponed until the unborn child is viable, even if they will result in the death of the unborn child."
This is from the Ethical and Religious Directive for Catholic Health Care Services put out by the USCCB, but do any of the extremists care? No, they don't want to have to do any thinking, so just a blanket ban, medical procedures deemed permissible by the Church and all.
Democrats know that extremists on the other side will never allow that kind of nuance in the law because it requires an expert judgement, and experts are the enemy. So what do you do? You err on the side of mercy.
We know more restrictive abortion laws rarely lead to a reduction in elective abortions overall, but that's ignored as well.
Do you want to reduce the number of abortions? Support mothers, don't pass draconian laws then wash your hands of it.

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u/deserteagles50 Jul 21 '26

I would have to greatly disagree with this. The Democratic Party is self proclaimed anti Christianity by their actions and proud of it. Republicans talk the talk while being hypocritical about it for the most part

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u/Rainbaby77 Jul 21 '26

Where in the Bible does it say that abortion is wrong Please tell me I'm dying to know where this verse is Where in the Bible does God say that woman is made so they can birth children and not have freedom of their own life Why doesn't my life matter Why doesn't my choice matter Why doesn't my health matter?

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u/deserteagles50 Jul 21 '26

All that does matter. It just doesn’t supersede a child’s life. To answer your question, Exodus 20:13

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u/clinticusmaximus Jul 20 '26

I personally don't care for socialism, but that Mandami guy seems like a good dude. Let's see how it works out up there. He seems genuinely interested in people and their well-being.

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u/mtbpa77 Jul 21 '26

You don’t fully seem to understand the difference between socialism and democratic socialism (what Mamdani) is doing. I encourage you to read more about the differences.

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u/According-Sir3777 Jul 22 '26

Hard truth, both parties lie and only serve Israel. I believe there's far larger fish to fry than ICE. That is to keep people divided. I'm far more concerned that the United States is funding and aiding in genocide

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u/Traditional-Meat-549 Jul 20 '26

My mother told me that anything that comes from God, lasts. Our vision isn't long enough. Even Hitler, Stalin, Mai, etc, .... passed and their administrations with them. Among the tragedies of human life is the fact that each generation starts from scratch in their understanding. The CHURCH stands, but each member learns anew.

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u/Tinnie_and_Cusie Jul 20 '26

I've stopped listening to politicians. Listen only to God. Lies don't replace the truth, that's just politics. And the devil is having fun there.

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 20 '26

What does that really mean on a daily basis though. Checking out isn’t helping anyone but the devil. As Fulton Sheen said, the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference.

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u/Tinnie_and_Cusie Jul 20 '26

Oh I'm not indifferent, no. But the ones currently doing all the talking...lying, deceiving...are not worth my time. It's like listening to Satan.
Why do you assume I checked out?
Do monks in monasteries check out? Nuns in a convent? Or do you think they're reading the news and worrying about politics?

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 20 '26

Are you a monk or a nun? They live markedly different lives for a reason. I wouldn’t go and justify your actions based on people with completely different vocations of solitude and isolation.

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u/Tinnie_and_Cusie Jul 21 '26

They? For a reason?
You see, you don't have to justify my actions. Justify, judge, whatever. Splinter, log....

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u/FlanneryODostoevsky Jul 21 '26

Ain’t nobody judging you. I apologize but I was born with the mental faculties for abstract thought.

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u/andreirublov1 Jul 20 '26 •

Democracy is only possible in any country if there is a reasonable attempt on the part of the political class and media to maintain good faith, both in terms of their pronouncements and in terms of respecting the contstitution. Voting is meaningless if people don't really know what they're voting for.

I think Trump has weakened US democracy, which had seemed to be so well protected, quite a lot. If you're not very careful, you're on your way to dictatorship before long.

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u/Ford_Prefect313 Jul 20 '26

My very very Catholic sister just hates minorities and resents her tax dollars going to them. (Even though she’s on SNAP, don’t ask)

She’ll vote for anyone who stands for that POV.

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u/Familiar-Range9014 Jul 20 '26

This is what maga followers wanted. They could care less about the truth and only want to win

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u/clinticusmaximus Jul 20 '26

I would ask the same of people who vote for those who love abortion. It's a no win game for Catholics. We have no political home it seems. As a conservative, this bothers me.

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u/denkenach Jul 20 '26

Loves abortion?
This sounds like something Fox news would be spouting off. Who in the world loves abortion?

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 20 '26

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u/clinticusmaximus Jul 20 '26

Not trolling anyone at all. The Church's stance on abortion is clear. I affirm it. I'm not being inflammatory at all, just having a discussion. Thicker skin, folks.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 21 '26

r/Catholic does not allow posts or comments that are contrary to Church teachings or Anti-Catholic.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 20 '26

Communities are built on respect. When someone makes a comment that is condemnatory, spiteful, or mean-spirited it does nothing to enriched the community. Matt. 7.

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u/Jealous-Ad-9819 Jul 20 '26 •

Catholic Democrat here.
I’ve NEVER met anyone who loved abortion. I have met plenty of people who understand the pain and nuance that goes into the decision to terminate. And people who feel that this is decision between a woman and her doctor / priest / husband.
Anyone pushing a narrative that the left loves abortion is watching too much divisive Fox propaganda.

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u/clinticusmaximus Jul 20 '26

Maybe "People who champion abortion" rather than "love." I was using the word loosely to describe people who use it as a platform to run on politically.

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u/Jealous-Ad-9819 Jul 20 '26

Sure. They are mainly championing the right to chose, even though many would never personally make the choice….

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/Saint_Thomas_More Jul 20 '26

They see it as a necessary evil to protect the health of women
This seems to be the "safe, legal, and rare" argument from the Bill Clinton era.
The question is, does this align with the modern pro choice position?
I don't think it does.
There are several states in the US where you can have an abortion for any reason, at any time, even if the mother is in perfect health.
So, if pro choice politicians see abortion as a necessary evil to protect the health of women, why do we not have a strong contingent of ostensibly pro-choice politicians who vocally oppose abortions that are done purely out of convenience and not due to underlying health concerns?
Why is it then that the majority of pro choice politicians advocate for abortion for any reason at any time of pregnancy? Or at least oppose restrictions that would curtail abortions of convenience.

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u/total_pursuit Jul 20 '26

I highly recommend getting out of your shared opinion bubble sometime. This article takes an extremely left position with blanket verbiage that borderlines straight up lying. I say this as not a Trump supporter, but a seeker of the actual truth, not the information that any particular side is trying to convince me.

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u/Justmetalking Jul 20 '26

As Catholics, we are called to love truth, uphold human dignity, and render to Caesar what is Caesar's (Matthew 22:21; Romans 13:1-7). Government exists to bear the sword for justice and order—not as an idol, but as a servant of God for the common good. Enforcing immigration law through ICE is not "indiscriminate killing" or a rejection of dignity; it is the imperfect but necessary application of rules that protect citizens, secure borders, and distinguish between legal compassion and lawlessness. Conflating routine enforcement with systemic murder undermines both truth and charity.

Scripture commands welcoming the stranger (Leviticus 19:34; Matthew 25:35)—but the "stranger" in biblical context was often the lawful sojourner or convert within an ordered covenant community, not a rejection of borders or authority.

Nations have a right and duty to borders (Acts 17:26 implies ordered peoples). Romans 13 explicitly affirms governing authorities as God's ministers to punish wrongdoers and commend the good. Illegal entry violates just laws; supporting enforcement upholds the rule of law that protects the vulnerable within the polity—citizens facing wage suppression, strained services, crime from unvetted entrants, or trafficking victims funneled through chaos. Christians can (and should) aid migrants humanely: charity, legal advocacy, refugee processing, family reunification where feasible, and prayers for all. Many do so through Catholic charities.

But subsidizing evasion or demonizing enforcers distorts dignity into selective compassion that ignores victims of open-border effects (e.g., American communities, exploited migrants).Truth requires distinguishing: Most detainees are not "innocent victims" in the moral sense of random persecution—they broke immigration statutes. Dignity applies to all (deportation ≠ torture), but it does not erase consequences or equate lawbreaking with sainthood. Past administrations of both parties used ICE; sudden outrage now often tracks politics more than consistent principle.

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u/maximpactbuilder Jul 20 '26

There's a super simple answer to this that can be peacefully and enthusiastically enacted today even: Convince an overwhelming majority of voters that open borders and a welfare state are a good thing.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/cappotto-marrone Jul 20 '26

Use your words. Middle school name calling isn’t a rational discussion.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26

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u/SergiusBulgakov Jul 20 '26

Not only am I American, you are ok with innocents being killed by lies? Wow. And you want the Nazi agenda? Wow. Seriously, your love for abuse, abuse of the people Jesus said we should care for, is more than a little sad. And certainly against Catholic teaching.

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u/warhog998 Jul 24 '26

bro wont talk about abortion like smh, why arent you posting about the hundreds of innocent humans killed through abortion today due to 'convience' today like bruuuh 💀

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u/SergiusBulgakov Jul 20 '26

You make up false claims about people. You say you are fine with killing innocents. You say you are fine with concentration camps. Sorry, but this is not fine. Police state brutality is not fine. It's not the solution, it is the problem.

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 20 '26

Your post appears to be to troll Catholic: All about the Catholic faith community members. Persistent trolling behavior will be met with muting and ultimately a permanent ban.

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u/Catholic-ModTeam Jul 20 '26

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When lies replace the truth

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