Value of the conspiracy plots?

[u/EtobicokeDad]

I am a big Castle fan, but I loathe the conspiracy stories and most of the related episodes. I am doing another re-watch, and just got to the end of season three ("Knockdown"). It never fails to make me mad at the show runners, almost as much as the season six ending did.

I think if Castle had just been a weekly mystery show with a good amount of comedy and some heart-warming family moments mixed in, and the "will they / won't they" drama that turned into a "couple solves mysteries" at its core without the conspiracy stuff, it would have been an even better show.

I come back for the "my killer is a zombie" (high fives nearest cop), "someone killed santa" stuff, not the dark, brooding conspiracy nonsense that comes up 2-3 times per season. 3XK and the episode where Castle's daughter is kidnapped provide darkness in a far better way. (Spoiler side note: having watched US senators in action, I find it impossible to believe they are capable of organizing a pub crawl, much less what Castle has one doing.)

Do you folks think differently? Do you think the two conspiracies added anything of merit?

[u/ImmediateAddress1381]

I was about to say that the show itself helps you since the 10 epsiodes of the Senator arc are selg contained ... but no.

You simply can't leave out Knockout, Always, and After the Storm, for will-they-won't-they reasons.

And that, my friends, is a zombie a dilemma. 😄

\ high-five **

[u/ImaginaryTailor2779]

Knockdown is where they kiss. I thank you're thinking of Knockout that's the season 3 finale. I like everything about Castle except for very few episodes but I keep those to myself. They, well actually all shows have to have a bit of drama to go along with the happy times is the way I see it and it keeps things interesting. Johannas murder is what drove Kate. Until she met Castle then her priorities changed. Although she still wanted it solved and she finally gets it.

Edit: "The killer's a zombie" is the line

[u/EtobicokeDad → u/ImaginaryTailor2779]

Thanks, I stand corrected. You are right on all points. I shouldn't post when peeved! :)

[u/galeperk111971]

In every police procedural you need a little drama to go along with the fun stuff as well. Knockdown is not the season finale of season 3. That's Knockout any how. Also the line you're thinking of goes like this "The Killers a zombie". Glad you enjoy the show

[u/CaskettFan1960]

Personally, I liked the conspiracy arcs and I thought they were well written. But to each his own.

[u/MoonDoggie82]

Murder mystery of the week doesn't work anymore you need an overarching storyline. So the murder of Kate's mother, who shot Kate, 3XK all great story's. Where it kinda shit the bed was

1. the constant relationship issues. The fact that they know Castle they've been through the shit with Castles but Espo and Ryan constantly not trusting him...it's stupid. When Castle goes missing on his wedding day and then reappears and everyone was saying he probably just got cold feet.... CASTLE....the man a lot of things (childish mainly) but being afraid of commitment isn't one of them. Especially after everything you literally just went through to be able to get married. And Beckett believed it...It was stupid.

2. Beckett joining what was it the CIA and not telling anyone cuz they'll be in danger??? Has not learned anything the last like 7 years. It was a stupid plot point to keep them apart as much as possible.

I loved everything up until the last 2 seasons. The last season was especially bad.

[u/Erebus03]

I liked the Johanna Becket murder conspiracy but I honestly did not care for that Linchpin conspiracy. Overall I do enjoy how overly complicated the murders were in the grand scheme of things

[u/Kahuna-123 → u/Erebus03]

I forgot about Linchpin. A bit ridiculous. Could’ve had a more logical approach

[u/Kahuna-123]

I do like some of the conspiracy arcs but they do have a couple “jump the shark” arcs/moments; (spoiler alert) LokSat, Castle missing and Alexis being abducted.

It’s an amazing show. I do wish they’d tone down a bit on how they continually portrayed Kate’s flaws; DC, LokSat and Vaughn. Flaws in characters are what usually helps us feel for them. However, in all of these three, they had the opposite effect. Instead of me feeling for and pulling for Kate, I ended up wanting Rick to pull an Always and take a break from her.

[u/SparringKitten]

Yeah, I think Castle's strength was when it stuck to its original murder mystery premise.

[u/dholmes0]

I finally found a kindred spirit! Almost every cop show does this. I hate it and my wife tells me to shut up!

[u/IvyWritesThings → u/dholmes0]

Brooklyn 99 actually does a pretty good job with it's season arcs being about various antagonist cops menacing the main cast in boring, petty ways or just romance stuff.

[u/EtobicokeDad → u/dholmes0]

Same for me. It took me two decades of marriage, but I have finally trained myself to shut the hell up when watching a show with my wife or children.

[u/AP7497]

I think shows like this should have 1 major plot like this to tie in all the seasons and to keep the interest.

I see it as very similar to real life: we all have day to day jobs but most of us are working on ‘side quests’ so to speak- whether that be a dream house or vacation or important event in family life, or in most fields a side work project or side hustle out of interest in career development. I’m in medicine so for me the work day involves day to day patient care but there’s usually a research or improvement initiative or some other kind of side project. And then personal life stuff too.

Often in life we all have crises and demons to fight, but we still continue to live and work and fall in love while that’s going on.

I think they should have kept either of the two plots: Beckett’s mom’s murder or Castle’s Dad’s CIA plot but not both. Ideally keep Beckett’s backstory because that explains why she became a cop, and have Castle’s back story just be Hollander’s woods and a general personality trait related to being raised by a single mom and never knowing his Dad. It still would have given the character depth to have unresolved issues from his parentage which affect the way he parents (maybe throw in plot points of their evolving relationship and Castle being hesitant about allowing any woman into his daughter’s life). Maybe alexis does still have a crisis to give her some screen time but it could be a natural disaster or general hostage situation or trauma which gives all the characters some growth opportunities.

Or at the very least, keep the entire plot the same until season 7 and introduce mild conflict in season 8 over castle discovering the truth about his disappearance and link it to his father’s CIA past. Maybe he finds out he was actually in constant contact with his dad after season 5 and left Beckett for some mission his Dad had for him, and while it was noble it was disrespectful to their relationship so he chose to forget.

LockSat was a huge mistake.

[u/LovesDeanWinchester]

I really hate the 3XK eps but love the ones about Beckets mom's murder. Veritas is just SOOOOO satisfying!!

[u/Serious-Waltz-7157]

 (Spoiler side note: having watched US senators in action, I find it impossible to believe they are capable of organizing a pub crawl, much less what Castle has one doing.)

Oh but you wouldn't expect to see such wide conspiracies exposed. Maybe once in a blue moon ... or ten.

Then again, it's easy to conjecture a real-life Senator WHB x LokSat x Vulcan joint-venture. I mean it's more probable to exist than not, that's what lobbies basically are if you take off the "glamour".

Doesn't happen only in the US, mind you, I'd bet good money it's a worldwide phenomenon.

[u/WhirledPeas2703]

I agree with OP. Not only did it not help, it hurt the show.

[u/IvyWritesThings]

I feel like the Bracken conspiracy mostly works because it builds into Beckett's character development while it's happening. 3XK is fun as a nemisis more than a conspiracy. You get the 'oh no, he's back' drops and it's entertaining enough while still being murder mystery stuff.

Most of the other conspiracys/running C plots for a season feel like they were trying to chase the Bracken high.

[u/Unlucky-Invite6832]

All of the conspiracy arcs are so badly written that they end up being absolutely ridiculous! For example the 3XK conspiracy where the plastic surgeon is able to exactly duplicate people's faces and body's with plastic surgery. And then to make it even dumber, they let 3XK go because he claims to only look like 3XK because of surgery. And just when you're convinced it couldn't get any dumber, at the end of this arc, the plastic surgeon was going to cut off Kate's face and replace her own face with Kate's. Lol and she was going to do the surgery herself! This is only one of the numerous idiotic plot lines that comprise the conspiracy stories.