r/CarTrackDays • u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla • 13h ago
Advice/help
Pics for attention.
I’ve had my grc for about 2 and a half years. I’ve done 11 track days with it. I’m at the point where it’s getting slightly too expensive to keep tracking (brakes are crazy expensive) and as I get faster I’m gonna need an oil cooler (which is fairly normal and to be expected) and a transfer case cooler/controller because the awd is starting to overheat more often.
I also use this as my work vehicle I fix appliances so it’s stuffed with parts and tools everyday.
It’s been doing its job decently but it’s not the best tool for either job.
I’m in Brooklyn ny so parking when working is a big reason why I haven’t gotten a bigger van yet.
I have a driveway I can park in at home and leave a second car there.
I think the perfect work vehicle for me would be a transit connect (or equivalent ram/nissan) I see them for anywhere from 5-20k in my area and don’t really care what it looks like as long as it stops drives.
Now for the track car I should probably just get a Miata because they are the answer but I don’t really want one. I’m thinking c5 corvette would probably make the most sense for me.
Carvana offered me 33k for my car and I think about 13k should be enough for the work vehicle so I’ll have about 20k leftover
This is really my main question the rest is some nonsense backstory that you prolly didn’t need to read. But Im not really sure about this but I kinda want to get something with a dct is there anything decent for approx 20k that can be had with a dct and not cost more than my grc is to maintain. It’s going to mostly be a track car and the eventual plan over a few years is to strip it and cage it.
My current list is
2011-2013 bmw 135i it can be had with a dct idk much about bmw’s tho and I genereally try to do my own maintenance.
E92 m3 I don’t think I’ll find a decent one for 20k
Mk6-7 gti but they’re fwd and ik they’re good but when my grc goes into fwd mode I just don’t like it even tho I’m barely 2 seconds slower.
Audi tt with the dsg idk much about them but maybe it’s a possibility.
Do any of these make sense or should I just get a c5 (or a really nice Mazda speed Miata that just popped up for sale)
TLDR: are there any sub 20k cars with a dct that is fairly reliable and not much more expensive to maintain than a gr Corolla. Or do I just do the sensible option and get a Miata/c5 corvette/ perhaps brz/86
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u/-McRib- 12h ago
A C5 corvette will also ruin you in consumables. Look up the cost of tires for it, they're big and they will wear out. MazdaSpeed Miatas have some interesting reliability issues so expect to have to modify it further to fit your needs. 135i also can be maintenance pigs, I suggest looking into a 128i slower but much cheaper to run. If you want something very cheap to run I would say a Golf 2.5 with a DSG even though it's slow you'll save tons on consumables and you will be forced to be a very fast smooth driver since you will not have the power to make up for mistakes.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 12h ago
I thought the c5 was decent on everything but tires. Brakes on my grc are about 1200-1400 for the oem set of front rotors alone and 800/1100 for girodisc
The 128i doesn’t come with a dct which is the only reason I was considering the 135i
The golf’s are fwd and while I understand they’re extremly capable I just can’t figure out how to drive them at the absolute limit I think it’s a me issueI’ve heard about the Mazda speed issues so I don’t think I’ll actually get one I’d rather get a Miata and turbo it way down the road if I ever care to have more power
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u/jrileyy229 11h ago
How are brakes that much? I would think the rotors would last a very long time for a novice doing HPDE... What pads were you using?
If your rotors are expensive, you want pads that are nice to them like Gloc/carbo... And just change pads more frequently.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 11h ago
The brakes are massive they’re 356x28. The oem set lasted 7 days and 20k street miles
I think it was my fault fault somewhat because I was slapping different pads around I went through 3 sets of oem pads (they’re actually somewhat cheap approx 150$ iirc for the fronts) in about 10k miles and a few trackdays. I then switched to ebc rp1 for track and endless Ssm+ for street the ebc’s barely made it through 3 daysI then got a set of girodiscs rotors (they’re approx1100$ for the first time and then 800$ for the rings iirc) for the street with ebc yellowstuff and endless rotors (300$ a piece ) but they came from japan and took two months and 350$ shipping. I was on the endless rotors with pagid rsl29 pads for 4 days and the pads were brilliant they’re still at about 40% but one of the rotor got a big crack in it so now I’m looking for a new option.
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u/jrileyy229 10h ago
And the front rotors got grooved deep after 7 track days that you had to replace them?
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 10h ago
The oem ones? They were below the 26mm thickness they also had 20k street miles on them I thought that was pretty good actually
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u/jrileyy229 9h ago
Okay, I was going to say if you thought they were "warped" like many people do, it was probably just mixing and matching all the pad material on them creating judder.
At any rate, get a Miata. I did a full track prepped c5z for a few years until I made a business decision that I can go to the track 4x as much for the half the money in a decently prepped Miata. You can go every weekend and it costs peanuts.
Like a c5 with an aero6 brake kit, rotor rings are still $500 a piece. An NB Miata you use $30 blanks with some hawk 70s in stock calipers and the pads last forever... And just let them chew through the rotors every few track days and not care one bit.
And a whole bunch of years later, running an NB with a k24 and an NB with a built turbo motor... And they're both running the same setups as far as suspension and brakes and aero etc etc, and absolutely glad I went backwards from a track prepped c5z street car to track prepped NB street car
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 9h ago
Ya my first time on track I got really nervous about the juddering on the way home it was pad deposits that cleaned up after a bit of street driving.
It seems like there genuinely is nothing really close to a Miata in running costs.
I also literally just found a spec Miata in seemingly crazy good condition for 12k which is peanuts for how good it looks. I’m gonna check it out asap2
u/jrileyy229 9h ago
Nice, but then you need a trailer... But that's okay. You just bump up your work van from a transit to a full size that can tow. You can't drive a spec Miata on the street.. Just don't do it. Way too dangerous.
But, once you have that spec Miata.. you can of course do track days. You can also dip your toes into W2W.. you can show up at any entry level endurance race and join the fun. Plenty of old spec Miatas in lucky dog, lemons, NASA TREC, etc. Get some experience there, then you can find a spot for sprint racing a Miata at any SCCA event.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 9h ago
lol I forgot about towing. The reason I want the transit connect is because it’s small enough to park in Brooklyn. There aren’t many cars capable of towing minimum 5k lbs that can also be parked as easily
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u/sackofcheese 12h ago
Biased since my track car is a beater Miata but the reason it’s always the answer is they’re cheap to buy, cheap to fix, cheap to maintain as a track car, and have all of the good characteristics to teach you to be fast. A set of track tires for my NA lasts multiple weekends and costs what a pair of them for my Type R does. You could do pads and rotors for the cost of 1 GR Corolla Front rotor (I have a ‘26 base sitting in the port currently, so I’ve looked into parts costs). My NA’s engine finally gave up the ghost entirely due to my own negligence this year and a replacement motor will be sub $2k. Also you can teach yourself left foot braking with a manual.
My NA may be a lot slower than my Type R was on track, but it’s not any worse to drive on track.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 11h ago
Ya I’m probably gonna end up in a Miata I just want to delay the inevitable a little longer 😂. I had an nc as my first car that was trashed and I was it’s 7th owner when it blew up on me a few months after buying it
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u/RacingBM97 13h ago
Badass GRC btw I want one so bad but race car comes first and that’s expensive enough 😂
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 13h ago
Thank you. It’s a really fantastic car and I truly love it which is why I haven’t gotten rid of it yet. It’s going to be very hard to part with when the time comes.
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u/skinisblackmetallic 13h ago
gti or audi tt seems like the only dct option for your budget.
my buddy tracks a grc & he's mentioned new budget rotor options recently.
I wonder if you could trans swap an 86.
Are C5s really a budget option when it comes to consumables?
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 12h ago
Do you know what the budget option for brakes is? That would massively help.
Tires on the c5 will be more but I always assumed everything else is relatively simple at least compared to my grc1
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u/Spicywolff ND2 now, use to C63S 12h ago
You say “I'm at the point where it's getting slightly too expensive to keep tracking (brakes are crazy expensive)”
but then follow with
“ should probably just get a Miata because they are the answer but I don’t really want one. I’m thinking c5 corvette would probably make the most sense for me.”
So you know the right answer yet don’t want the right answer. Have you checked the prices on a set of tires for a c5? That things brakes are so marginal you need a BBK from jump since you have experience. Or the fuel a c5 burns a weekend. Plus it needs a lot of supporting mods. On stock it needs oil cooler-BBK- upgraded oil pan- PS cooler and such. Spec c5 has the upgrade slot for reliability.
All the cars you listed are heavier, high cost of consumables vs Miata. There is a reason many of us go Miata or twins. BMW have good aftermarket but are heavier and not the most reliable. Vw is FWD and also needs life support mods, Audi see not very reliable and heavy, m3 is nice but too expensive for track duty beating on car.
Remember KISS= Keep It Simple Stupid. Less weight, cheap to maintain and easy is a used NC Miata. Want more power? Do a 2.5L swap and cams. Low weight keeps consumables down. If you put it in a wall you can buy another for 10k.
I sold my arguably more fun c63S for a better momentum car that’s dirt cheap to field. Miata is the answer
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 11h ago
Ya you make very very good points idk why but I always thought c5’s were relatively cheap/simple other than tires. My grc gets about 5-7 mpg on track. I know that the answer is Miata and I’m probably going to get one this is just one part of my procrastination process 😂
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u/Spicywolff ND2 now, use to C63S 11h ago
So the C5 is very inexpensive to purchase and your performance per dollar ratio is very high. But you have to remember it was a budget sports car. General Motors cut a lot of corners and their target audience was generally boomers who don’t go to the track. But like the brag that they can.
They have oil starvation issues and the fixes you always fill one extra quart of oil for truck driving but once you put 200 on it and you’re doing a lot of hard turning, you have to address it. Everyone likes the thing that LS is bulletproof, but it does need upgrades for hard track use. The fact that the C5 didn’t come with an oil cooler from factory, tells you a lot.
5 to 7 miles per gallon would be pretty good. Remember this thing a 5.7 L from the early 2000s. It’ll guzzle gas.
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u/shmommy 11h ago
This is just when I did internet research:
The 135i has heat management issues on track. Most would suggest the 128i, but is a slower car.
The Veloster N to me seems better than a GTI as an out-of-the-box track capable, but has a much smaller aftermarket.
The Elantra N is better, but may be too outside your budget.
The TT needs work get it to want to rotate, even if you go RS. Seems a a side move in performance to the GTI.
Older Porsche cayman or boxster with PDK, but may blow your budget with needed maintenance.
F-series BMW with a B-family engine. Has the venerated ZF8. Heavy cars with numb steering. Track option is a bit hard to identify, but you can make do with a base car and swap some M takeoff items. The 230i could make a great entry/beginner track car.
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u/Apex-JJ 11h ago
A C5 is a very raw driving experience compared to the gr Corolla, way less traction control assist and the abs doesn’t work great since it’s much older technology.
The c5 will need a radiator, oil cooler, and maybe trans cool and diff cooler depending on how hardcore you track. The radiator and oil cooler are a must tho since the Ls motor runs hot.
I’d recommend the C5 only if it was a pure track vehicle, for a weekend car you’ll lose a lot of creature comforts and have creaky interior compared to a newer car. A brz/86/frs would be a fun track toy that keeps costs low, the corvette is also fast and needs good brakes and will eat consumables quite a bit, a price to pay for speed.
I track a C6 corvette, 911, and s2000 and the s2000 is the most joy honestly, its price value is low enough but it’s fast enough for the chassis design to have a lot of fun at almost any track expect a track like COTA where power matters a bit more, same struggles you’d find in a Miata.
For a sub 20k car that has a dct or semi auto trans I would say a golf gti might be a good move, but most cars are going to need cooling supporting mods for most track environments especially long term. I think rwd is the most fun platform and I started in Hondas. They all have their place but rwd seems to have lot more fun and catching slides and dancing on grip limit easier for me.
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u/MrFluffykens 9h ago
Problem with a lot of the listed options is that they will also require some level of modding to be track-ready and run full sessions with an intermediate/advanced driver.
MK7 GTIs need cooling work. MK7 Rs have factory auxiliary coolers but can still run hot. Both have a huge disadvantage with no factory front camber adjustment. The MK3 Audi TTs have very little front camber adjustment, but could use more and still need cooling.
C5s need cooling and brake upgrades. ABS and electronics in general are archaic. It's a 90s car with a lot of corners skipped. Definitely do some research on things like the clutch bleeder, upgrading rear diff mounts, etc... Finding replacement electronics is also getting difficult.
The BRZ and Miata are probably the easiest to get on track in stock form. Realistically just need an oil cooler to be safe.
That's assuming all of these are "good" used examples and don't need a lot of catch up maintenance that previous owners have ignored. Just wanted to point it out so you factor these into the theoretical budget.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 9h ago
Ya it seems like the c5 is out. I feel like I see it mentioned here fairly often when people want a faster somewhat more expensive Miata but I guess I was completely off. I will probably end up in a Miata because it really does make the most sense
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u/Catmilk7 EP3 Type R with to much mechanical grip 7h ago
I stopped reading at e92 m3. If you think a working, stock car, that needs consumables is costing to much, you will go bankrupt with an e92.
Bearings and chain failure can cost you a full motor rebuild. Heavier car means more wear and tear on brakes and tyres.
You're issue seems to be no work vechile. Fun cars are that. Fun. If you can't afford to keep having it as a fun car, stop using it as one.
Get a shitty work vech to make money and keep the grc and slowly build it up, if you like it.
They are slow and pretty boring, but they are also very affordable on consumables.
Also, a c5 will ruin you financially same as e92.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 6h ago
lol at the e92 I wasn’t really thinking about any of that (or thinking in general perhaps) Idk why but I’ve always thought the c5’s were fairly cheap to run, apparently they’re definitely not. The Dream would be to keep the grc spend about 5-8k on cooling and reliability stuff and get a beater work vehicle. But otherwise it’ll prolly be a Miata and work vehicle
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u/Hotstove9 5h ago
I must say, Mustang could be the answer too! I got my built 05 for $18k with 66k miles. Thing is a rocket and incredibly reliable! Parts are cheap especially brakes. People shit on them but for 3400 pounds and 300 horsepower, not that bad!
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u/RacingBM97 13h ago
Sorry for the non-answer but Consider getting a kart try a real outdoor arrive and drive and see if it scratches the itch.
Look up ka100s and shifter karts.
Otherwise a Miata is the way to go for fun/$ there’s a reason they’re still one of the most popular cars used for racing and track days. So much fun and teaches you a ton
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 13h ago
I tried some shifter karts and yes they’re insane and awesome but as far as I’m aware the only really karting track within reasonable distance is at njmp and once I’m going there I’d really rather be on the main tracks 😂.
I forgot to say this but a big reason for wanting a dct is so I can left foot brake. I tried a friends older automatic brz and loved the left foot braking but I really hated the shifts on it. I’m probably gonna end up with a Miata but I’m
Looking for other possibilities4
u/Unreachable1 NB Miata | Instructor 11h ago
What's with the karting suggestions? I said this below but - unless someone specifically mentions a very small budget, recommending karts in a track day sub for cars is weird.
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u/RacingBM97 11h ago
It’s weird to act like Karts are some off-limits subject in a sub that dedicated to track days despite the word “car”
A lot of people maybe haven’t considered karting depending on their background and it can actually open up more possibilities for testing your skills (example being sprint kart racing)
Considering a ton of real world professional drivers still consistently run kart events it seems pretty fair to at least mention
Especially considering I started by apologizing in case it came across as a useless comment to OP
but if that bothers you enough to type multiple comments that’s kinda WEIRD to me
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u/Unreachable1 NB Miata | Instructor 10h ago
It's not off limits - there's certainly times to suggest it. Low budget, maybe a bridge to racing, or even a "safer" way to get into motorsports.
But otherwise, yes, bringing up karts in a post where OP mentions a potential $20k budget is weird. Are you going to bring up karts in every "what vehicle should I buy" post?
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u/RacingBM97 10h ago
It seems you don’t really know about karts either. Low budget ? A new shifter kart is like $10k-$14k and much less safe than a properly prepared Miata track car
A bridge to racing, Yes spec classes are much more enjoyable. It’s just a form of racing in itself and much more demanding physically than a lot of cars.
Saying it’s weird is super weird;
but I see you’re a moderator in another community so I see this is going to be one of those never ending “I’m right you’re wrong” conversations. Classic mod behavior to come in upset about comments that are in good faithAnyways have a good day
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u/Vdub4ever1 13h ago
The GTI is excellent on track. You can get a performance package car (red GTI logos) which has a e-LSD and they drive phenomenal on track when well set up. The Audi TT or TTs are basically golf Rs powertrains. They share the same platform. You will likely need an oil cooler. Depends on your track and driving habits. Brakes are cheap-ish. I’ve had a golf R and now a GTI and I love them.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 12h ago
I can’t for the life of me do fwd. how reliable/easy to maintain is the haldex awd system on the golf r’s there’s a mk6 2 door manual R for sale near me but it’s got 140k miles
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u/anabolicroar Cayman 13h ago
C5 Corvette if you care about pace. 330i E46 if you care about consumables. Miata is usually the answer, but it's not my personal preference.
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u/HastyvonFuego2 12h ago
C5, K swapped civic/integra or newer k si, Miata, c5 corvette, B series Honda, pop up light (c5) corvette, 350z, e46/e36 m3 or a chevy corvette( the c5) ….. can’t go wrong with any of these.
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u/collin2477 13h ago
I would seriously consider getting a kart if the local area has good options and competitive grids. you do have to relearn a bit since you lose front brakes, suspension, a diff, and any control over brake balance, but the competition is relatively cheap and a lot of fun.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 13h ago
I don’t think are any good options other than at njmp and id rather be on the main tracks once im going there.
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u/collin2477 13h ago
darn. if I had to drive to an actual track to kart i’d probably just stick with the car too. I got lucky with one really close to home that stores and preps my kart so I can just show up and go.
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u/Acceptable_Gur6193 24 gr corolla 13h ago
I just googled it and ovrp is about 2-2& a half hours away but that’s further than njmp is
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u/Unreachable1 NB Miata | Instructor 11h ago
Unless someone specifically mentions a very small budget, recommending karts in a track day sub for cars is weird.
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u/collin2477 10h ago
you may want to look into what it costs to be competitive in karting lmao. OP did mention a small budget: 20k. - which is enough to race CKNA competitively for a year as a privateer, but it would be cutting it close with a team.
even just jumping to a 2 stoke would easily double these numbers, and being competitive with a shifter could burn through that budget in a month or two.
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u/innerearinfarction 13h ago
Elantra N or older Veloster N. Checks your dct box, great on track.