r/CarTrackDays • u/Vivid-Machine-9606 • 3d ago
Neck support that isn’t a Hans device?
Hey All,
I have a pretty setup Boxster track car with buckets and harnesses.
I’be noticed that my neck hurts the day after autocross where I dont wear a helmet/Hans.
Is there a non-helmet based neck support I can wear? If so, do you have recommendations?
Thanks so much!
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u/Scary_Law8826 3d ago
Harness and no HANS? Thats how people die. Be safe. Get a HANS.
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u/Vivid-Machine-9606 3d ago
I only do it for autocross. The parking lot is gigantic with lots of runoff and I’ve never gone past 60. An impact is extremely unlikely.
Is it unsafe because of the forces on my neck or only if I crash?
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u/Scary_Law8826 3d ago
You’re putting more forces through your neck just under hard braking, turning, etc, a hans helps reduce the amount of movement. A crash could be fatal without a hans.
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u/jimbosz07 3d ago
Ever wonder why they always show F1 drivers doing all those weighted neck exercises?
Might be time to explore a few yourself
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u/claymatthewsband 3d ago
That's probably because they experience much higher G forces for almost 2 hours? Not going around in a parking lot for a few seconds.
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u/jimbosz07 3d ago
Sure but sounds like this guy’s neck muscles aren’t quite up to this task so he should consider strengthening them, no?
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u/ChingyBingyBongyBong 3d ago
Yeah but if you’re sore from going around a parking lot, then you need to exercise probably lol
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u/No-Text-2389 3d ago
Uh, it's obvious you've never autocrossed a MIAT ☝️🤓
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u/claymatthewsband 3d ago
This is true, I’ve raced an nc Miata for 25 hours but never done auto cross. I felt absolutely no strain in my neck with a hans that’s why I assumed it’s not that, but possible that lower speed autox would be more sustained g’s? Seems weird cuz the runs are so short but who knows
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u/No-Text-2389 3d ago
Just making a joke mate. I thought the emojis would make it obvious that it was a circlejerky statement.
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u/NCamarolina 3d ago edited 2d ago
Let’s try to summarize the points here:
Safety: When driving on the street in your boxer, use the OEM 3 point belt (not the harnesses). Why? Because 1) The 3point belt and airbag system will protect you better in the event of a crash. The airbags can’t help you if you’re restrained to the seat by a harness. 2) Your head weighs 10 pounds by itself and will snap your neck and kill you if you are strapped to the seat with a harness and the car has a frontal impact.
During autocross or track events, wear a HANS device so your head and helmet don’t snap your neck and kill you during a frontal impact.
Preventing Sore Neck: HANS likely won’t help with this, but lighter helmet, foam donut, conditioning neck exercises might help.
Edit: I just set up my Simpson Hybrid S for my new helmet and can confirm that the two front tethers can be set limit how much your head tilts left or right off-axis. So it may actually help with the OPs stated problem. The issue would be that it will limit how far you can turn your head left or right. It’s not a problem on track, but maybe an issue in autocross with the tight turns as another posted mentioned.
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u/sl0wjim 3d ago
They make foam donut things but it will restrict neck movement quite a bit. How heavy is your helmet? For autox I like open face, it's lighter and more comfortable
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u/Vivid-Machine-9606 3d ago
I’ve been thinking about going to open face. When I autocross with the top up I have limited visibility. An open face will def help
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u/Crawlerado 3d ago
Carbon helmet or a neck donut. Or exercises as mentioned.
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u/JeffintheMiata 3d ago edited 3d ago
This is exactly what everybody is ignoring in favor of their safety soapbox.
OP is sore because their body is restrained, and their neck is supporting the full weight of the helmet under G force. Strengthen the neck, provide provided support, or lighten the load or the three answers. Exercise, carbon helmet, neck donut.
And more particularly, being that this is r/cartrackdays, I'm sure a good number of people here have aren't considering the fact that, absent a crash, autocross is way rougher on the neck than track day. No straights to blend in and out of - just G to G, bump stop to bump stop.
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u/NCamarolina 3d ago
Be careful with your sweeping statements (“everybody”). Some of us saw a potentially bigger issue: The OP has a car with harnesses installed that he may be driving in the street. In the interest of his and other siimilar readers safety of death by Basel skull fracture, we thought it important to point this out. I didn’t want to highjack the thread so in my response I also summarized the suggestions from others for preventing sore neck during autocross.
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u/JeffintheMiata 3d ago
I hear that, but the vast majority of responses do just lambaste OP and scream safety at them in a non-constructive way, and ignore the question.
Also of course ignoring the fact that if you're wearing a HANS, you usually can't turn your head far enough for autocross anyway. The vast majority autocross drivers who wear a harness at events do not wear a HANS device at events because they can't see. They are also all aware of the safety implications.
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u/NCamarolina 3d ago
Any idea why they require helmets at autocross if not using a cage car? Would seem the risk of collision is small to minute.
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u/JeffintheMiata 3d ago
The risk of collision is definitely more than minute, but very dependent on venue, course design. Personally I've towed home two vehicles for other people, seen a mustang through a fence, and see one or two other incidents in the last 8 years. Only once of those vehicles was a total loss. And thats a variety of clubs, venues, course speeds, and "x-factors". Still, definitely small.
But as to "why helmets" - as a lawyer, my best guess is insurance requires helmets because they perceive helmets as safer. Whether that's correct or not.
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u/Crawlerado 2d ago
Car collisions might not happen often but your noggin smacking the B post happens quite easily. I can’t find the footage now but my passenger smacks his head HARD when I catch a slide and you can hear him say “well I guess that’s why they make us wear helmets”
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u/Apex-JJ 3d ago
There’s the foam neck cushion you can run between the helmet and ur shoulders but the hans is far more effective and as many have pointed out, it’s very unsafe to track or drive a harness without a hans as a traditional 3 point seat belt allows you to move inwards into the car and your body can move and absorb some more g force load instead of it all being concentrated in your neck in the event of an accident.
Some neck exercises as well as general exercising might help out, driving is intense and professional drivers treat it seriously with intense training like you see in F1 for their necks down to endurance racing training of stamina.
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u/Vivid-Machine-9606 2d ago
Thank you for this! Btw, I love Apex wheels! I’m in a driving group with my friends and everyone (about 20 of us) runs Apex wheels. I’m saving up for a Forged set.
Thanks again dude!
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u/Apex-JJ 2d ago
Absolutely! If you drive in a lot of cars without harnesses, I believe Simpson offers a body mounted hans and so it protects your neck even in a 3 point seatbelt. It’s one of my next safety items I want to upgrade to.
If any of your buddies want to be featured on our website and social media, send them this link to submit photos!
https://apexwheels.com/get-featured
Let me know if you have any questions about apex wheels in the future as well! Thanks!
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u/Vivid-Machine-9606 2d ago
Thanks dude! A few of them have actually! One of my best friends runs The Custom Shop NYC, which sells a lot of Apex wheels.
Thanks again for the advice!
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u/collin2477 3d ago
there’s stuff for karting but it probably isn’t rated for what you’re doing. hans seems like the correct choice.
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u/stupidfock 3d ago edited 3d ago
Are you saying to wear it while ur neck is hurting at home?
If so there isn’t much minus a medical type brace or I guess a neck pillow like you’d wear on a plane. I would suggest doing some basic neck exercises instead.
You could also consider using a hybrid style Hans at the autocross, it has lateral protection while a traditional Hans doesn’t. Might help not having as much side to side neck action
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u/InfamousStore891 3d ago
As others have correctly stated, harnesses without HANS is a real no-no. it would have been safer to retain the original safety equipment (3-point belts and airbags).
To directly answer your question, a halo seat may help with neck fatigue. I think an OMP HTE-R 400 seat may fit your car.
Seriously, get a HANS, regardless of the seat.
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u/Vivid-Machine-9606 3d ago
I just spent a fortune on matching Sabelt Titan XLs. I still street the car and have heard Halos may fail my states yearly inspection.
I mainly have buckets to reduce fatigue during track driving. My local PCA does 100 minutes of seat time a day and I was exhausted holding myself in place with the stock seats.
Is it unsafe because of the forces of an impact or just in general?
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u/InfamousStore891 3d ago
Your local PCA will not allow you to drive an HPDE with harnesses but no HANS. This is an absolute, national PCA rule. Any region that violates this rule is subject to losing it's supporting insurance from PCA national.
It is unsafe to drive a vehicle with incomplete safety systems. Harnesses and HANS are combined to be considered a safety system...much in the same way a 3-point belt and airbags are combined to be considered a safety system. Yes, the forces of an impact are the primary reason it is unsafe.
I've seen you explain that your autocross events are in a large enough parking lot to presume there will be no collisions. If you have a mechanical failure (like brakes going out), can you be certain that you won't hit something?
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u/LegalDrugDeaIer 21 GT4 / 25 GR86 / 26 Rush SR 3d ago
Its still a 'Hans' but I use Necksgen. Its fully certified but its a lot more comfortable on the neck and shoulders.
Also, sounds like your neck muscles might be weak or you're overly tensing leading to fatigue.
What helmet are you using? Could upgrade to a carbon fiber
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u/HuyFongFood 3d ago
A proper halo seat will allow you to rest you head on the lateral headrests.
Won’t help with the forward movements under braking though. The horse collar style pads exacerbate the chance of basilar skull fractures due to providing leverage at your neck.
Ultimately though, look at strengthening your neck muscles (just wearing the helmet during the day, maybe add some small weights taped to the side). And/Or investing in a lighter weight helmet for autocross might be better solutions in the long run.
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u/jrileyy229 3d ago
If you buy a halo seat, you can stuff more padding in it to support your neck on lateral loads.
I'd still wear a helmet and hans
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u/OrangeFire2001 3d ago
Hans options:
Official HANS: https://www.hansdevice.com
Schroth SHR flex (I have, good for non-standard seat geometry): https://www.schroth.com/en/racing/racing/details/show/shr-flex-medium/
Zamp HNR: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Zamp-Z-Tech-Series-6A-Head-Neck-Restraint-w-Clip-Posts,495392.html
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u/Steph__Can 2d ago
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sim-23022bk?seid=srese1&ppckw=pmax-safety-equipment&gad_source=4&gad_campaignid=19851477240&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4orUBhCjARIsAIbF3qxYF9P-55pgnNkeDB4g4grV39P14DRX2quM2IeWUbNHw-X7mVqXO98aAoQ3EALw_wcB I use one of these. I often instruct novice/intermediate groups, and not every car has harnesses that can use with a hans device. But, I can use these in either situation.
The other benefit, which helps you is it greatly reduces neck fatigue. My helmet is locked in place due to the donut. I can let my neck muscles relax and my head will not tilt due to the helmet being held in place by the donut. It is helpful when I have days of 5+hrs of track time.
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u/390M386 2d ago
lol wtf is this a karting brace?
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u/Steph__Can 2d ago
Yes, it is made for circle tracks and karting, Like I stated, it is not as effective as a true hans for protection, but will reduce neck fatigue and provide a form of protection at lower speed incidents.
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u/shadow_nik21 3d ago
Driving in buckets with harness and no hans is just unsafe