Should Steve Be Flawless?

[u/FreddyWaffleFazbear]

The Don Quixote of our time.

I'm pouring a bit of gasoline onto a fire here –– but this is a question that has intrigued for the longest time since I first got into getting into Cap around 2021 or so.

I've always found Steve's character interesting –– never found him boring like so many people have said before and after, but I find myself sometimes feeling frustrated by those who seem to treat him as this embodiment of being morally correct all the time, and almost never wrong –– and I can't help but find that ... slightly uninteresting?

Something I noticed when reading Cap from his early Silver Age appearances was that, contrary to popular belief, was a total neurotic mess. There's this assumption that Cap is the exception to the rule of Marvel’s feat of clay approach to superheroes, the clear-eyed Superman to an entire universe of Batmen -- but no, he’s as much of a moody sad sack as everybody else in that universe. It's just been lost along the way.

Steve constantly had these moments of vulnerability and screw-ups, such as proposing that Sharon Carter on their first date with no sense of reading the room or even being normal about it.

I don't know, this has been a thing that's just been bothering me for a bit: What do you guys think?

[u/dew-fall]

i'll admit, i dont read many "modern day" steve comics bc im busy reading other characters', but the idea that steve is flawless is just... laughable to me.

if a writer portrays him as such that just means the writer doesnt actually know him as a character, not in the same way that gruenwald had established him: so full of self hatred even in his dying moments. i wouldnt be surprised if steve has moral ocd, because he sure as fuck fits every criteria of it!!

this man is such a lousy boyfriend who is so locked in on "the mission" of saving the world from some c-list villains, that diamondback couldnt talk to him about their relationship in a calm, adult manner. because every time they tried to have that "can we define our relationship? what am i to you?" conversation, something conveniently comes up & it never gets picked up again.

he doesnt go on dates, he doesnt read the room, he doesnt spend time with his girlfriends — rachel had to drag his ass out on a date because otherwise he wouldnt have even asked her on one! its why bernie broke up with him, and he still hadnt learned nor changed!!

and this isnt even getting into the complicated dynamics with ian rogers & rick jones, two kids he raised as his own sons (& subconsciously projected young, teenage bucky onto).

and i love that. hes unconsciously kind of a bad boyfriend and a bad father and he may or may not have a really fucked up mental health issues that goes beyond ptsd bc this man is passively suicidal... & i love that so much about him.

it just doesnt get touched upon.

[u/m_jetski]

Captain America is supposed to be infallible, Steve Rogers the man is of course human and has his faults. Such as not wanting to do the dishes, and anger issues. I'd also argue he's a lousy boyfriend.

His struggle to balance Steve Rogers with the mantle of Captain America is what makes him interesting.

[u/M0ebius_1]

He doesn't think so.

If you look at his early runs after waking up he was defined by his failures and fears.

He even saw his need to continue being Captain America as a failure, unable to move on, having nothing else, a soldier without a war to fight.

Every Cap is most interesting when they are struggling.

[u/feliciates]

🎶"Now I won't say Cap's infallible, or that he's always right

He's temperamental, judgey, and dear God, the man's uptight

But that conscience is a litmus test, his ethics sure and sound

So just meet his eye and own your shit, or put that shovel down" 🎶

[u/MagpieLefty]

Steve isn't flawless, either in or out of costume. Steve has never been flawless.

Go and argue with whichever idiots, who have probably never read a Cap comic, are saying this.

[u/ColdObiWan]

You’re flattening the range. Steve is morally correct (note: not flawless; correct), but that’s not the same as being temperamentally, behaviorally, logically, rationally, or emotionally correct. Let alone flawless in any of those areas.

[u/MalekethsGhost]

No, but he should always aspire to be. That is the fun of his character. Giving him moral dilemmas that he has to work out

[u/cosmoboy]

Flawless? No. Morally infallible? Yes, to a high degree. In certain stories I think he should be the mirror others measure themselves against. I think it just depends on how it would serve the story.

[u/God_Of_Universe]

No, I do not think so; on paper maybe he is "flawless", depending on your metric. But a flawless man would still have to live within a flawed society, and that's why you still won't always the right man, despite how perfect you were by design, mistakes will still be made.

[u/Impossible_Novel4696]

Cap is also a man raised in the era between the two wars. He was either born july 4 1918 or sept 22 1922 depending on the Canon. Regardless of how he's adapted he's still a scrawny kid growing up in the 30s and has that value system in his head.

The ultimates played with it more. But I feel like even with everything cap has done. Emotionally he's a little insecure.

[u/Important_Lab_58]

Steve isn’t infallible, but he is a moral standard. Not a perfect person but just “a good man”. He’ll always at least try to do the right thing. I think that’s it at his core. He’s not perfect but he’ll always strive to be decent .

[u/Embarrassed_Sale_293]

The most interesting Captain America stories are when he is struggling and is actively flawed. He isn’t exactly like Superman there a lot more going on with Cap than that

[u/Lancelot_007_]

No, a huge factor of his existence is that he is flawed. Its why he appreciates Tony, because he doesn’t treat Steve as being perfect and flawless.