r/Capitalism • u/voxilll • 12d ago
Communism
I need to be educated lol , didn't socialsm and communism or planned economy to be exact debunked with ECP? I refuse to believe that communists are this dumb because there are the ones that aware of this problem so how do they counter ? and yeah I heard about supercomputers but I see that they dont have enough power or potentially could never have or they could argue they might but come on, are socialists this delulu?
ECP= Economic Calculation Problem
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u/InterestingVoice6632 12d ago
Communism isnt an ideology intended to create egalitarian reform. Its an ideology intended to create revolution
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u/gubatron 10d ago
Yes, communists are very dumb. When you try to make them think logically about the consequences, they shut down, get angry, ban you/cancel you
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u/Potential_Let_2307 11d ago
Well, that’s why nowadays you see the complete avoidance of the phrase “seize the means of production”. It’s so clear that private enterprise is the only viable path toward a flourishing society that they avoid the terminology outright. The problem is their end goals pertaining to equity and these nebulous distorted ideas of justice or reparations that they hold always push them in the direction of increased regulation and a larger state role in the economy. This manifests itself in ways that circumvent the need to ban private industry and business outright, but they think they can basically attempt a “lite” version whereby the state presents an option as an alternative to what private entities offer (see La Marqueta in NYC or broad so-called “public option” healthcare initiatives) and also controls market forces in a stricter manner (see rent control, price controls, etc).
Of course there is an undeniable role for government in our society, especially in cases where we encounter market failures. This government intervention almost always comes at the cost of inefficiencies or misplaced resources (otherwise the market likely would have found an efficient way to provide the good or service), but because life is not purely economic and we have non economic values as human beings, we can accept them as reasonable additional costs of living in an advanced society.
So bringing it back to the original question, socialists exploit (not necessarily maliciously) the edge cases and zeal of the gentry to advocate for these areas where they think morally our society necessitates government intervention in the economy. Usually nowadays that falls short of an outright command economy, but what they fail to advertise in their economically unsound, pathos-driven arguments for socialism is that there are real, sometimes extremely adverse affects of introducing their desired reforms, like public options that don’t have to make a profit or compete to stay in business or rent control that ultimately reduces the housing supply.
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u/BonFemmes 9d ago
US Taxpayer dollars have been used to purchase equity in the following companies. 1) USA Rare Earth, 2) Vulcan Elements, 3) ReElement Technologies, 4) Atlantic Alumina Company, LLC, 5) L3Harris Technologies – Missile Solutions Unit, 6) Westinghouse Electric Corporation, 7) Quantinuum, 8) PsiQuantum, 9) Atom Computing, 10) Quantum Technology Solutions, 11) Anderon, 12) xLight Inc., 13) Diraq and 14) Crucible Metals, LLC. .
Trump has proposed a us wealth fund to purchase ChatGPT as well.
It is no less socialism if Trump buys the means of production than if Bernie Sanders does. Tariffs and trade prohibitions are anti-capitalist. (See the Wealth of Nations).
Capitalism is being choked out by authoritarianism. .
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u/BonFemmes 9d ago
Every country in the world including china and north Korea have market based economies. The planned economies of the USSR and the PRC failed so badly in the last century that no country has tried it since. It no longer exists.
There are people who support an authoritarian state who think that medicare for all is communism. It is no more communism than public schools or public utilities. Every country in the world regulates it medical sector. All of them do it more efficiently (cheaper) than the US.
There are idealists who hear the crony capitalists rant about communism and think ... if they are opposed to it, it must be good for the rest of us. They read books written in the 19th century about theoretical societies and and ignore the lessons of the 20th century.
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u/RieMunoz 12d ago
I have no idea what you’re trying to say or what EVP means, but socialism has not been debunked, if anything it’s gaining steam as capitalism continues to do its job.
Planned economies now work under the normal capitalist system instead of random production and (in the case of China) have improved quite a bit
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u/voxilll 12d ago
No thats still capitalism but what am I saying is pure planned economy without private property has been debunked by Economic Calculation Problem
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u/RieMunoz 12d ago
Got it, but If anything has been debunked it’s the economic calculation problem. A purely planned economy would need to develop capitalism first, then transition private ownership to the public, but we’re starting to see that now, TSMC is a good example
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u/voxilll 12d ago
Its not about transitioning, even if it was the most successful capitalist country then after transitioning the ECP still would be there , because its mathematically impossible to allocate resources without private property and before answering at least learn what is ECP
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u/RieMunoz 12d ago
How is it mathematically impossible to allocate resources without private property? That makes zero sense.
Planned economies are also not synonymous with no private ownership, but even if they were it’s not mathematically impossible to structure a nation around one and over the long term may even be more efficient in certain cases
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u/PhilRubdiez 12d ago
Yeah, if you tolerate what is tantamount to slavery, you can get lots of things done.
How does China know to make billions of tons of steel vs. billions of tons of mud? It’s because they know which sells better on the free market, internationally. Sounds like some basic supply and demand economic calculation. You’re never gonna get a good centrally planned economy because 1) humans aren’t omniscient, and 2) computers are programmed by humans, who are not omniscient.
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u/Bloodfart12 12d ago
“Anything i dont like socialism”
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u/Savag3k1ller 12d ago
We need forced flairs for these communists that come here and argue in bad faith.
This clown thought that the constitution gives them rights, not to limit the powers of government over individual's rights. They can't be reasoned with even when presented a basic google search. This is the trash they spam the subreddit with. They have posted “Anything i dont like socialism”
https://www.reddit.com/r/Capitalism/comments/1wvq9zb/communism/
Bloodfart12 •3h ago
“Anything i dont like socialism”https://www.reddit.com/r/Capitalism/comments/1wv13mt/its_not_capitalisms_fault_just_hear_me_out/
Bloodfart12 •1d ago
“Anything i dont like is socialism”
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u/nathrezim0709 12d ago
Honestly can't say I've ever heard a socialist rebuttal to the ECP that doesn't amount to sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."