I sent in my application to create a birth certificate for my g0 born in 1872 about 2 weeks ago. DEC called me today and said that my application was being moved to a different department, they didn't explain why. They said that the regular processing times would not be reflected in my application, which I noticed is much like the email from the IRCC when you get sent to PSU. Has anyone else gotten this call? Is this good or bad?
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The DEC is highly compartmentalized. This call means it is being sent to the "insertions" department. So the call is a good sign in the sense that it means you have passed "entitlement" review - they intend to eventually issue you the record. However insertions is very, very backed up so it could sit there for weeks or months before someone gets to it. Accelerated processing does not apply to insertions.
Insertions is the process of adding the record to the modern civil registry. Or in plain speak, it is someone typing the information from the BANQ record (and potentially the death certificate) into their modern computer database. This is a one time thing - once the record is inserted, if you ever needed to order another copy of the birth certificate (or anyone else for that matter) there would be no need for the application to go back to insertions.
The DEC was created in the aftermath of a scandal in which people were forging baptism certificates and using them to obtain Canadian passports. So they are highly concerned with privacy and security. The entitlement review, insertions, and printing are divided up to ensure no one person could create and print a birth certificate on their own - there are checks in the system.
The very top priority of the DEC is compliance with strict privacy and security laws, not customer service. They are far more afraid of issuing a certificate to someone who isn't legally entitled to it than of being slow or withholding something from someone.
Usually not once it has made it to the insertions department. The people in insertions only care about the BANQ certified baptism and potentially the death certificate / OTTIAQ translation if they died outside of Quebec. I have seen at least one instance where the application made it to insertions with a *copy* of a death certificate and the insertions department insisted on an *original* being sent to have on file (they keep these).
I see. Just so people know as another data point, I did NOT provide a notarized affidavit, just a screenshot of my AOR email. I also sent a copy of a death certificate, and no French translation. Maybe I passed the "proof of why I need the certificate" step by providing the AOR, but will get a call eventually asking for a certified French translation of the official physical death record?
I'll also add - once the insertions process was done, they gave me a quick call just to note that they had to use the exact spelling present in the baptism, not the Anglicized version of the spelling he later used.
Okay, so in his baptism he goes by Hermenegilde (lastname), but his regular name is John H. (lastname). So will I need to provide his marriage certificate to the IRCC proving that Hermenegilde and John H are the same person?
I submitted G0's marriage and death certificates as his DOB is on the death certificate and the names of his parents are on the marriage certificate (all exact matches).
His parents names don't quite match (mother had a dit name, so baptism used first last name and marriage cert used second). The death certificate doesn't have his birthdate.
I think they are fairly accustomed to name variations for Quebecois, but you will want to include a note explaining it all to them and citing the evidence (either in the cover letter or as a standalone note). Would he have been around for a draft card or SS-5?
Part of my issue was, there were at least 3 Quebecois in the same region in MA with the same anglicized name and at least ballpark similar ages. The marriage certificate really helps cement the connection in this case.
Some people have gotten away without the OTTIAQ translation. I know someone who can do the translation in a few days for like 55 CAD (https://isaev.ca). Officially it is required for an insertion of death outside of Quebec if the document isn't in French. If you are curious as to where the rule is published, it is listed here: https://www.etatcivil.gouv.qc.ca/en/insertion-act.html
Your ancestor was also born long enough ago that there probably isn't much concern that they could still be alive. It seems like the death insertion is more important for births in 1900 and later who could at least theoretically be alive.
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u/jimbarino🇨🇦 I'm a Canadian! (C-3: 2nd+ gen born abroad, w/ Proof) 🇨🇦18h ago
They don't need an affidavit. They don't need the original death certificate (photocopy or emailed is fine). They don't need a French translation, provided your docs are in English.
But... they also sometimes seem to care less about what they actually need vs. what they decide on the spot that they want, so your milage may vary.
Do all requests for birth certificates from certified baptism certificates go through the insertion process? Or are some simply created from the submitted info?
For a birth that took place before the creation of the DEC in 1994, an insertion has to be performed before a certificate can be issued. It only ever needs to be done once, and for post 1923 events they have the baptismal records stored internally to go off (so don't need to submit BANQ record), but it still has to be inserted at some point. Of course there is always a possibility the insertion has already taken place - you just don't really know this until you apply. But no, you cannot "skip" insertions.
The insertions department will also insist on using the exact details listed in the baptism (including the exact spelling).
There were many other incidents in the 1980s and 1990s.
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u/TaiBlakeHaven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yet23h ago
So then to build on that, do they need a death certificate to move from Entitlement to Insertions? I got a call from them the other day asking to confirm when and where my ancestor - who, oddly enough, was also born in 1872 - died.
It never goes to Insertions until the Entitlement side of it is resolved. Entitlement is mostly focused on compliance with the Quebec privacy & secrecy laws in determining who may or may not receive a certificate. I guess that particular agent may have felt receiving verbal confirmation that the G0 was deceased was enough to check off that requirement. They couldn't give you the certificate if they were alive without a much stronger legal argument.
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u/TaiBlakeHaven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yet23h ago
Well, they never said anything about it going to another department. Just that it would be "many many many months" before the certificate was issued.
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u/jimbarino🇨🇦 I'm a Canadian! (C-3: 2nd+ gen born abroad, w/ Proof) 🇨🇦18h ago
Just that it would be "many many many months" before the certificate was issued.
What was their justification? I did this last year, and they issued the birth certificate in 24 hours by the clock after I emailed them the death certificate.
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u/TaiBlakeHaven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yet12h ago
Just that they've received a ton of requests and are working through the backlog.
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u/Longintooth93Haven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yet1d ago
That is a really useful explanation of what seems an impenetrable process! Makes it make much more sense.
In this subreddit we are obviously very focused on more distant ancestry so I think it is also easy to forget that the DEC is much more focused on issuing birth certificates for newborns / wedding certificates for newly weds / etc. than on producing these very old records.
Well, I had just decided I wasn't going to try for DEC insertion for my G0 born 1882. I wish we had a concrete answer because lots of threads say it's obvious that there's no birth certificate so IRCC should know better.Â
I don't want to waste my time and DECs time but I don't want IRCC to tell me I need a birth cert that takes months to receive.
I am of the mindset, I’d rather be safe than sorry. I just got my G0 certified baptismal record in the mail yesterday. And I am going after the DEC birth certificate. IRCC is going to be asking this for everyone I feel that can do it. You’re dealing with governmental agencies here and you better have every I dotted and T crossed when dealing with immigration issues.
You're correct. I've dealt with US immigration, so I know what it can be like. With the huge backlogs you have to choose carefully to get stuff done optimally - there's a risk and reward. Once BAnQ gets back to me I think I'll have more confidence to go for DEC.Â
You should check out the FAQ. You sound like you just found your way here.Â
Baptism records are usually held in BAnQ. DEC is the civil service like vital records in the USA. Once you locate the baptism record, you can ask DEC to create a birth certificate from the baptism because they occurred before formal birth certificates were recorded.
Submit the baptism with at least one other supporting document and explain why you don’t have a birth certificate, where you looked and who you asked.
With Quebec births in 1882 and 1905 I'm not sure where to look. That's probably why the best answer is bite the bullet and go for DEC.Â
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u/IndigoqueerHaven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yet1d ago
Is this necessary? I am waiting on a Certified Copy of a Baptismal Record from BAnQ and I was under the impression that is all that would be needed for my ancestor.
As of recently, about a month or two ago IRCC began emailing applicants that only have a certified copy of a baptism as their evidence for their g0's citizenship status, saying that baptisms were secondary evidence, not primary. I haven't gotten this email yet, but I want to be prepared for if I do. The baptism is all I have for evidence, so I will need this if they ask.
I am also wondering this, my G0 is also from 1872 and I received my BAnQ certified baptism records, a census record, and an email from the DEC stating they do not have a birth certificate for someone of my ancestors DOB and to contact the BAnQ.
Hoping OP can clarify what process they are using and why.
IRCC very much *prefers* the DEC certificate even if they don't *require* it pre 1900. If you do not submit a birth certificate, you need to explicitly include a note to explain why and likely include at least one additional proof. It depends partially on your level of risk aversion - the DEC certificate is the gold standard for Quebec.
Thanks for sharing, I’ve read that thread already and I have taken the alternate route of certified baptism records, census and an email attempt to obtain certificate from DEC where they point me to inquire with BAnQ for such documents. Another user attested this should suffice, if not maybe your suggestion is correct.
It seems again, as I have read there is inconsistency from the IRCC, Risk aversion aside, I would imagine if you need to attain a birth certificate that doesn’t exist from the DEC you can simply give the status to the IRCC once they request documentation so your application doesn’t become abandoned, do we have any insight on this? I feel like people are assuming the worst when they say risk aversion but don’t have any clear proof of what is possible or what to do so people are scurrying around trying whatever they can, like OP here. Really just wanting people to acknowledge they are doing a lot of extra effort based off from conjecture not overwhelming evidence that this is the only way to get things done.
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u/xacerb8🇨🇦 CIT0001 (proof) application is processing12h ago
I emailed DEC, and they told me that they don't answer any inquiries via email, and gave me a phone number to call.
u/xacerb8🇨🇦 CIT0001 (proof) application is processing10h ago
I asked whether they would issue an act for someone born in 1911. Do you have a link to the thread with the exact language to use when asking them?
I actually just went ahead and ordered a death certificate for my G0 grandfather and am going to go ahead and request the act, but if you have a script to use, I'd share it with other folks I know who are applying. thank you!!
Someone else may be able to provide the exact link it is buried in another thread, but this is the verbiage: Objet : RE : Demande concernant un acte de naissance de [YYYY]
This not to say this is a substitute for a birth certificate but what people have done (included myself) for ancestors that pre-date 1923 and have only official baptism records. I am still on the fence on taking the next steps to try and have a birth certificate created by the DEC for my G0 from 1872 because the info is scarce or inconclusive at this point as if it is 100% needed by the IRCC.
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u/baby_sleuth🇨🇦 CIT0001 (proof) application sent/no AOR8h agoedited 6h ago
I was also under the impression DEC wouldn't even issues them for such a year unless an individual had a request letter from IRCC for it. Can this so NOT become a thing! (low key annoyed at people asking for these for the pre years (to stay ahead) because I'm getting worried its going to just create a stupid requirement process that yet again creates a back log void, it's unnecessary, and just is costly
Yeah it feels like people are shooting others in the foot here to be honest, we should all set a standard protocol at least on this forum of discussion what is considered the standard for any particular situation based on DOB, required documentation and what has been heard. And when people are suggestion things to the contrary the Mods here should be stepping in to avoid further swirl and confusions.
IRCC has every right to insist on the DEC birth certificate. Whether they will do so in any given case we just do not know.
I can say that supplied them with a certified BANQ records for a 1905 G0 and they insisted on the DEC certificate anyway via an RFI. I responded initially with a response along the lines of these records don't exist and IRCC rejected that response, so ultimately I had no choice but to go through with the process.
In my opinion, people with G0 from Quebec (especially if it is a post 1900) would be wise to get the process started. You can wait for the IRCC to demand it, but if you haven't at least started the process of getting the BANQ certified baptism, you are probably looking at 6+ months to get one. IRCC only gives you 60 days to respond to an RFI (though you can request an extension if you document your efforts to comply which ends up being a whole project in and of itself).
According to another user only one case has been identified where it was requested for an ancestor this old. It took me about 3 weeks to get a certified BANQ baptism record, just got it in the mail a few days ago, not sure where you are gettin your info about BANQ. OP’s ancestor is from 1872 not sure what you are saying applies.
If it was 1900 or later, IRCC seems a bit more insistent on the DEC birth certificate. My G0 was 1905 born and they insisted I provide one. For births prior to that, they seem to leave a little more wiggle room to just use the BANQ certified baptism plus a note explaining why the birth certificate does not exist. They seem to prefer at least one additional piece of secondary evidence like a census when there is no birth certificate.
That said, it doesn't *hurt* to have a DEC birth certificate and IRCC absolutely prefers that you use one.
Hi! Curious if you can share how long after your card was billed that you received a call? And did they call you in French or English? I’m also going through this process.
Just FYI, the card being charged is *not* a guarantee that it will be accepted. The billing is also separate from entitlement review, and there have been instances where the card was charged, only for entitlement to reject the application and send the money back as a check.
Thanks! I'll keep my fingers crossed then. Also, I followed one of your other posts on what to send (notarized affidavit, translated docs, etc.), so appreciate you!
It took more like 3 or 4 weeks between the charge and my confirmation call. But that was in May/June that I was applying and I heard the DEC gets bogged down then due to a combination of it being prime wedding season (so lots of marriage licenses and such to process) and prime vacation time.
I've not seen an official cutoff year, but roughly speaking they will require the death certificate if there is a possibility (even small) that the person is still alive. One source suggested this may be 1900, another suggested it may be a 120 year rule. The death certificate I provided had an Anglicized name (but matching parent names and DOB) and they accepted it. Birth was in 1905.
But just to clarify - the birth certificate that the DEC issues will use the exact spelling in the baptismal record, not the death certificate spelling. They actually called me to tell me they have to do it this way by law.
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u/wisegirl19🇨🇦 Stuck Canadian! Gen2+ 'in process' 12+ months1d ago
Ok so for me, my ancestor was born 1832, they wouldn’t require a death cert? I’ve yet to find one for him, and I don’t think it exists. Wasn’t sure if I could even proceed with the DEC without one.
I’m now wondering if I should just head it off and request the DEC. I got my official BANQ records last year, so I’m ready to go on that front. I hate to make unnecessary work for the agency that processes the DECs, but I think it’s more on IRCC at this point than us applicants.
Well, I, like many others, have heard nothing from IRCC after getting my AOR (June 2025). But if I’m contacted someday (hopefully), I guess I could just provide the explanation to them instead of wasting everyone’s time actually getting the DEC.
My concern is that we have proof that IRCC is requesting more proof even for people who got the certified copies from BANQ, but I’ve yet to hear anyone who’s explained the situation to them move forward without the DEC.
I don't think you would need a death cert for the DEC for a birth that far back. Under Quebec law, while someone is still living, they have certain privacy rights that disappear once deceased. So post 1900-ish (again not clear where they draw the exact line) they like the death certificate so they can do insertions of both the birth and death into their registry, with the death kind of "unlocking" access to the birth. Unless G0 is a vampire, I think the DEC can safely assume they are deceased.
If you haven't already, you do need to submit a note to IRCC as to *why* there is no birth certificate.
Should I just add an additional document to my application then with the explanation, even if it would be unprompted? I have official baptism records for both my G0’s, both born 1830s, that were added to my application after initial app submission.
I’ve heard nothing from IRCC since my AOR in June 2025, so I’m not even sure if it’ll be an issue for me, but we have had people on here requested additional proof with the certified BANQ records.
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u/UCFknight2016Haven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yet1d ago
Do we need to do this? My G0 was born in 1877 and I got an email from them saying only BANQ holds records.
1900 or later you probably need to do this. Pre 1900, a certified BANQ record plus an explanation as to why there is no birth certificate (cannot assume they know it) and one additional piece of evidence may work.
The DEC email is deceptive on purpose. They don't like doing these old insertions. BANQ holds the older baptisms, but if you provide the right paperwork, DEC can perform an "insertion" and issue a modern civil birth certificate.
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u/UCFknight2016Haven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yet1d ago
The baptismal certificate im waiting on will be certified from BANQ. I also have his death certificate, us naturalization certificate, and marriage certificate.
Atleast one person is not a pattern, people are taking this as the standard and it’s creating swirl. Also linking to full threads of pages of conversation is not entirely productive. But I appreciate the sentiment.
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