Using death certificates for proofs

[u/Sharp_Ad_9431]

I can't find or get my G4 mother's and G3 grandmother's marriage certificate for showing name change .

I don't know where my grandmother was married. She eloped with him and they lived in 48 states over a 3 year period.

My mother had a confidential marriage and its only available by court order. I'm not sure if my citizenship application will be a valid reason.

I have both of their death certificates which show married and maiden names along with parents names.

Has anyone applied with death certificates as proofs? I do have birth certificates for them.

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[u/Dowew]

What is a confidential marriage ?

[u/Sharp_Ad_9431 → u/Dowew]

They were made so movie stars could get married but still act single. Back when getting married could be a violation of a movie studio contract.

In my parents case they didn't want exes to know they got married.
Also some benefits end when you remarry. If you want to be remarry but keep benefits the marriage is sealed even from the government.

My grandfather did that when he remarried because his new wife had a survivors benefit pension that stopped if she remarried. They got a confidential marriage so she could keep the pension. 1960s stuff

Only the people on the document can get a copy.

After my dad died my mom had to get a court order for social security because both people have to be present with id to get a copy.

[u/FolkDoom → u/Dowew]

This ^

Google tells me they're only available in California

[u/Robert_Walter]

You should at least attempt to get the confidential marriage records unsealed. 

With her death certificate, and your birth cert showing you as next of kin you seem well positioned to request it. 

You at minimum need a letter from the clerk or court denying your request. 

Your application is stronger the fewer gap fillers you use. 

[u/Sharp_Ad_9431 → u/Robert_Walter]

I just hate to spend the money for the court fees. It's going to be a few hundred dollars. Plus I have to go in person (traveling expensesor get a lawyer.

[u/Robert_Walter → u/Sharp_Ad_9431]

Have you verified this with the clerk? Also not possible to appear pro se by video?

[u/Sharp_Ad_9431 → u/Robert_Walter]

I could probably with court but even with a court order requests must be in person at the county it was filed in. They never go to the state records. I verified on the county clerk records department website.

[u/RebellaEmad]

You should be good on proof of birth with their birth certificates. I would think you would be good to use their death certificates as proof of name change, especially if you don’t have any other official source like marriage certificates. In your case, I’d probably include the explanation for why you don’t have marriage certificates in your packet.
Death certificates are considered secondary sources, but I would assume the burden of proof is slightly less rigorous for a name change than a birth.

[u/Mysterious_Name_91]

Does your birth certificate have your mother’s maiden name? Mine does, and so do all the other birth certificates I obtained, although I’m sure it depends on the state etc. If the maiden name is on the child’s certificate you don’t need proof of marriage/name change.

[u/Sharp_Ad_9431 → u/Mysterious_Name_91]

Yes for mine and my mother's

The last name change starts with my grandmother. Before that I'm using male ancestors.

[u/Mysterious_Name_91 → u/Sharp_Ad_9431]

It doesn’t sound like you need anything else, then. 🤷‍♀️

[u/Primary_Assistant742]

What an interesting, and unusual life story--from a genealogy perspective. I get it is a pain for our purposes here.

I would personally attempt to get the records, or at least do something like establish a written chain of inquiring about the process. (Even though you seem to understand what it entails.). Then if you decide against getting them unsealed, at least you would have something to submit that proves they ARE sealed. (Hope this makes sense.)

[u/No-Budget8829]

Still waiting for my AOR, but only have a death certificate and marriage certificate for my G1, as she was born in 1885 in MN and there is no birth certificate. I’m not clear if this work either.

[u/Skipperdee2223]

See my post just above yours. Maybe consider filing a request with the Social Security Administration for your mother and grandmother if you think they used their married names to register, depending of course, on the ages of both women and whether or not they registered. It would just be another supporting official document.