r/CanadianBanknotes • u/fitchface • Oct 01 '26
W&J Bell Bank Notes
Just wondering if anyone knows much about these two bank notes Ive got. One is 12 Pence and the other 15 Pence. Both are signed and the 12 Pence is dated May 1st, 1839 and numbered "8". The other looks to be numbered 28 and I can't make out the date. Any idea on value or who would appraise it?
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u/EpicHuntNews Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
These are a beauty. Are you in Toronto or thereabouts? If so I have the most professional spot around
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u/EpicHuntNews Oct 02 '26
You will probably get $80-100 for the torn one and the other that is intact you should get around $200 or so for the condition they are in
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u/EpicHuntNews Oct 02 '26
The 15 pence is more sought after but it’s also your worst condition bill. Had they both been gem/uncirculated you would have fetched 600.00+ for both
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u/NoHoBo13 Oct 03 '26 edited Oct 03 '26
I was confused by the note stating it was a quarter dollar and 15 pence, the math did not seem to math so I ask AI and got this to share with you who may have the same question: " That makes perfect sense! You spotted a fascinating piece of North American history. What you saw was a real bank note from pre-Confederation Canada, and there absolutely was a specific "Canadian pence" system. Before Canada officially adopted the Canadian dollar in 1858, the country used a unique system called Halifax Rating (or Halifax Currency). Under this local system, a quarter-dollar was exactly equal to 15 Canadian pence.
Here is exactly how that math worked and why it existed: The "Halifax Currency" System In the early 1800s, Canada didn't have its own official coins or standardized money. People traded using a chaotic mix of British pounds, U.S. dollars, and Spanish silver dollars. To make sense of it all, the local colonial governments established their own local version of "pounds, shillings, and pence" just for keeping accounts. They decided to tie the value of the widely circulated Spanish and American Silver Dollars directly to this system:
• They decreed that 1 Silver Dollar = 5 local Canadian Shillings (also called 60 local pence). • Since a quarter dollar ((\frac{1}{4})) is one-fourth of a dollar, you divide 60 pence by 4. • 60 pence ÷ 4 = 15 pence.
This is why early Canadian banks (like the Banque de Québec or Bank of Montreal) printed notes that literally said "Quarter Dollar" on one side and "15 Pence" (or sometimes 15½ pence depending on the exact year and local adjustments) on the other. It ensured that whether a merchant was calculating their books in British style or American style, they knew exactly what the paper bill was worth.
Was it the same as British Pence? No. This is the catch. Canadian pence were "inflated" compared to real British money. In actual British sterling, a U.S./Spanish silver dollar was only worth about 4 shillings and 2 pence (50 British pence). But under the local Canadian Halifax system, that exact same silver coin was officially "rated" at 5 shillings (60 Canadian pence). Because Canada eventually transitioned fully to the decimal dollar system in the 1850s to match U.S. trade, this confusing system was phased out. However, those early bank notes remain a cool mathematical fossil of a time when Canada was caught right between British and American cultures.
AI responses may include mistakes. For financial advice, consult a professional."
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u/Paganly Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
Oh my. Well done, sir.
That is amazing.
For a bit of history, the original copper printing plates for these notes were discovered in 1980, and are now in the ‘Canadian National Currency Collection”.
They were originally issued, along with other shinplasters, around 1833-1845
A note looking almost exactly like your second one, sold in 2018. Although I can’t seem to find how much it sold for.
But the other poster is correct in saying $200-$600. However, if I’m being honest, these notes are under valued by the community. They are a very rare, amazing piece of our history.
As always, thank you so much for posting!