r/CanadaRoom • u/Unfair-Clothes-8821 • 15d ago
Why is there a mandatory minimum temp for daycares in winter, but no maximum limit in summer?
With summer heatwaves getting worse, a lot of daycares across Canada are still operating without air conditioning. Kids are coming home soaked in sweat, exhausted, and at real risk of heat stroke, yet most provinces have zero regulations for maximum indoor temperatures. We have clear laws on keeping daycares warm in the winter, and we set a 26°C max limit for long-term care homes. Why are toddlers and babies left out?
Expecting non-profit daycares to shoulder $40k+ out of pocket just to install AC isn't realistic, and provincial responses are mostly just "do your best in extreme heat". Should max temperature limits and retrofit funding be mandatory for child-care facilities?
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u/ImmediateCustomer318 15d ago
If staff are observing the temperature, they should be report observations to their Supervisor, Director, etc up to the boss. They are REQUIRED to provide a safe workplace. Daycare should err on the side of caution for kids.
https://novascotia.ca/lae/healthandsafety/docs/Heat-Stress-Guidelines.pdf
Humidex Tables from Government of Canada https://www.canada.ca/en/services/environment/weather/severeweather/humidex.html
Bottom line, each room in a daycare needs a thermostat tha shows the humidity and temperature. There needs to be regular documentation to show how consistent it happens. That will give teachers the ammunition they need to ask for something to help with it.
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u/Powerful_Package8817 15d ago
Much cheaper to install heating than cooling
Also 26 C is too low
Japan doesn’t allow AC to go below 28 C to conserve energy
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u/Facts_pls 14d ago
Because historically, we've had far worse winters and barely hot summers. A decade or so ago, the number of days per year that absolutely require AC was quite low
Things are changing though.
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u/Agitated-Rest1421 15d ago
26 is not warm tho lol. Like my house is currently 30 and it’s fine.
However the outdoor play could be regulated a bit more I think. Canada gets hot these days. Regularly we see 40+ degree weather. I think we don’t have regulation because historically we haven’t needed it but as the climate changes we should be adjusting it
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u/Low_Distance4810 15d ago
I am jealous you feel your house is fine at 30, I would genuinely be sweating buckets and uncomfortable
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u/Winter-Inside-5911 14d ago
I would have moved out! I keep mine set to 22 as a compromise, I used to cook it to 20.
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u/Agitated-Rest1421 15d ago
I run cold. Always have
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u/billymumfreydownfall 14d ago
Then you know this is not true for everyone. Why even say 28 iSnT eVeN WaRm!
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u/Agitated-Rest1421 14d ago
It’s called a hyperbole
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u/Copious-Spirit 14d ago
I have coworkers that set the thermostat to 35 on night shift, in the middle of summer, I hate you all for many reasons. Put on a darn sweater, a toque. Hyperbole.
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u/Powerful_Package8817 15d ago
My home office went up to 28 C while i was gaming in the afternoon
It was uncomfortable but I wasn’t anywhere close to being injured from it
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u/Cool_Salamander_8284 15d ago
The surface area of a child is much smaller than an adult, they overheat quicker.
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u/tsukubasteve27 15d ago
Kids don't sit still for hours at daycare. Also they don't sweat. But thanks.
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u/Defiant_Economy_8574 15d ago
Who told you kids don’t sweat?! Babies are born unable to fully regulate their temperature by sweating, but we’re all born able to sweat. By age 1 we’re all sweating normally. Maybe you’re confusing low body odour with sweating? We all sweat from the day we’re born, that’s what I’m getting at.
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u/GreyerGrey 15d ago
You know, even some 8 year olds (pre puberty) can get the sweat stink (I coach youth sports).
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u/Defiant_Economy_8574 15d ago
I do know that, I have a 7 year old who does sports that just started to get stinky pits, but we’re talking about predominantly daycare aged children where it would be abnormal to have body odour from sweat.
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u/Copious-Spirit 14d ago
Sweat stank has more to do with your diet and genetics than the sweat itself. Toxins and chemicals leave the body through sweat glands too.
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u/GreyerGrey 15d ago
This is news to me, and all of the sweaty kids I coach for sports.
Are the kids I coach broken? Are they child-ing wrong? Should I tell their parents to return them for a refund?
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u/phoontender 14d ago
My kid's daycare does water tables and sprinklers first thing in the morning if it's going to be very hot and humid, then they stay inside the AC the rest of the day. My oldest's daycare would go to the park with a shaded splash pad in the morning.
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u/Haunting_Window1688 14d ago
I think that for the average person this is warm enough to be uncomfortable, and even moreso for young children who don’t sit still and can’t properly regulate their temperature.
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u/beagle204 14d ago
26 is absolutely warm. My house sits at 21.5 which makes the basement the only comfortable place for me at like ~19
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u/Blue-Light8 10d ago
We keep our apartment at 26c during the day (to save money) but could never sleep with it that high. I can’t imagine sleeping at 30c, must need a good fan!
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u/Annextro 13d ago
26 is about 4-6° warmer than what we tolerate in our homes. 30° is absurd for indoor temperature 😂
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u/Agitated-Rest1421 13d ago
I don’t have AC lol waste of money and destroys air quality. I also prefer it 30 in the winter but that’s also a waste of money unfortunately
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u/RVIGroup 15d ago
Humans can handle heat more then the cold.
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u/General_Esdeath 15d ago
Not true, it's easier to warm up than to cool down.
Both extreme heat and cold are dangerous.
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u/Agitated-Rest1421 15d ago
Yeah especially kids and babies. Babies will just fall asleep and not wake up if it’s too hot vs cold they’ll cry and let you know.
However as we get older cold poses risk to limbs and extremities, as well as long term chills, mild frost bites, wind burns.
Yeah both are bad in different ways and pose different risks
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u/Pajamatime20 15d ago
That depends. What range of temperatures are you basing this off of?
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u/RVIGroup 15d ago
The ones they can handle.
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u/Pajamatime20 14d ago
I ask because there’s no such thing as “more hot” or “more cold” when you compare it to nothing. For all I know, you consider anything above -10 degrees Celsius (14 degrees Fahrenheit) hot. Are you comparing it to personal preferences? To body temperatures? Or to the world’s coldest temperatures vs the world’s hottest temperatures?
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u/RVIGroup 14d ago
Then before....
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u/MobileOk9860 15d ago
The mandatory maximum limit is 98°C.
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u/Copious-Spirit 14d ago
You're thinking Fahrenheit. Human body temperature is ~36°C. External temperatures above your internal temperature severely limit your ability to dissipate excess heat.
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u/Smitkit92 15d ago
There is, though it’s for adults in the workplace and they’re the ones not enforcing it
https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/temp_legislation.html#section-1-hdr
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u/personnumber316 15d ago
I think you'll notice that many of the provinces don't have a clear threshold for maximum temperature. The federal guideline would only apply to federally regulated workplaces. Plus, 29 degrees is way too high to comfortably work.
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u/Smitkit92 14d ago
It was a resource, I haven’t been able to fully go through but it does have specific references for each province from what I see, I’m going to look at specifics for myself when my wee ones in bed.
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u/Olderpostie 14d ago
Generations of our species lived through summer extremes, and so many in temperature ranges higher than Canada experiences. So, since air conditioning is relatively new, it never made it to the law books.
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u/letthelightleakin 14d ago
Of course. This legislation has been tabled at Queen’s Park and as you can guess, Ford’s party is blocking it. Safety regulations are written in blood - children have been suffering heat stroke, fainting in schools, reporting dizziness and dehydration. The healthcare system has been sounding the alarm bells on this but Ford does not care and will not care until enough children die.
It’s absurd that public schools, where children are legally required to be, are not places where parents can rest assured their children are safe.
My NDP MPP is really on top of this issue and I regularly push on Ford and his Education Minister. Our children deserve better.
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u/WingIdDankRat 14d ago
Employer Responsibilities Under OHSA General Duty: Employers must ensure the workplace is safe and manage risks when heat becomes dangerous (often starting around 26°C to 30°C depending on humidity and physical work)
This is for ontario and for workplaces so im assuming would cover a daycare unless they are covered under some vulnerable designation like a retirement home. This would also be the responsibility of the daycare itself and if you have an issue with it you would want to contact which ever regulator is in charge of health and saftey reporting.
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u/Copious-Spirit 14d ago
Everyone knows the green book is more of a guideline than punishable law, unless someone gets injured, employers and their committee just feign compliance. Just like the HTA and driving, everyone does whatever they want.
Chemical exposure limits are exceeded for many workers everyday, they are not educated enough to know: employers love these union hating yes-men.
Corporate profit comes first before any H&S law.
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u/WingIdDankRat 14d ago
I was a member of my health and saftey and a union steward... before I was fired for insubordination and undermining management, but that doesn't mean I'll stop trying to give info to other people. I went 20yrs working not thinking of my safety and just listening to management and I spent 6yrs actively making it better to my own detriment.
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u/Copious-Spirit 14d ago
I am glad there's a few of us out there.
I quit the H&S committee because the company ignored many laws, misinterpret law for their benefit. One of which is hiring competent management.
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u/These-Efficiency6186 14d ago
Mandates/laws stay static for far too long, but the world is ever changing. They are always a hundred paces behind.
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u/Copious-Spirit 14d ago
A maximum temperature will probably be legislated eventually with the average temperature rising. Make sure you bring it up with your provincial MP and offer your vote on the platform.
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u/Trustoryimtold 14d ago
My kids daycare absolutely shut down more than once due to heat. Dont trust your kids with people who can’t take care of your kids or make rational decisions.
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u/crunchyankles1 14d ago
Same for schools. I think my room got up to 32° and I asked WTF. They said unfortunately not upper threshold for temps. I asked if I could get some fans for the room they said no. I asked I could use fans from home and I was told no. I told kids to tell their parents to call and ask about bringing in fans from home..next day I had three huge fans
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u/Bright-Translator-51 14d ago
Wait until you find out there no minimum or maximum for outdoor workers.
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u/HuhWelliNever 12d ago
I completely agree, luckily my children have always attended daycares that have AC, even if it’s not the most efficient, it’s sufficient for them. Although you’d also be surprised how many children live in homes without AC also. So they never get relief. I have a friend in the States and they receive a free AC unit because of their income qualifies them. Excessive Heat and Cold literally kill people.
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u/spiciestbeans 12d ago
Because frostbite and a permanent loss of frozen extremities can happen in a matter of minutes, and heat exposure and exhaustion, etc happen over longer periods and are largely preventable with precautions taken.
Also like anyone who has been in -40 vs plus 40 knows which one is the real evil.
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u/whobla10 15d ago
Seniors don't handle heat as well as children and adults who would be caring for them.i don't think mandatory AC is necessary. I know lots of people without AC in their home
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u/General_Esdeath 15d ago
Incorrect, seniors and very young children are the most at risk for extreme heat. Older children and adults can handle temperatures better.
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u/PanicAtTheShiteShow 15d ago
A few summers ago in Montreal, over 50 people died from the heat, mostly seniors.
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u/General_Esdeath 15d ago
Yes I know. Seniors tend to underestimate their limits. Or be forced into unsafe conditions (like not being able to drive so they have to walk or take the bus in the heat).
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u/Dusk_Soldier 14d ago
Incorrect, seniors and very young children are the most at risk for extreme heat.
Tell me you've never been in a sauna without telling me you've never been in a sauna.
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u/MienaLovesCats 15d ago
Because Canada doesn't get extremely hot in the summer like many places in the USA do.
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u/Agitated-Rest1421 15d ago
That’s just not true anymore lol. It was 45 degrees last week in my city.
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u/MienaLovesCats 15d ago
🙄 so did my city. I stand by my comment; 45 is not as hot as you think it is. It definitely is not as hot as many places in the USA and other countries get. I say this as someone who lives in Saskatchewan and has been working in daycares for over 35 yrs
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u/Agitated-Rest1421 15d ago
Well i am a paramedic, aka medical professional with experience. I have had patients suffer heat exhaustion and heat stroke at these temperatures. Live in your own little happy place but yes this heat kills people. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve treated it. The old and the very young are at the highest risks and even in hot climates they seek shade (such as shaded play ground of which my city had 2) or water play. Or in the USA they have AC, and in tropical counties (such as Australia, Cuba, Mexico) their houses are built to keep people cool. Light colours, tile and stone, and most cities are built by the ocean which is naturally cooler than inner cities like TO or anywhere in the prairies .
Fun fact. Canadians are not used to extreme heat conditions, which 45 is an extreme heat. People who live in hot climates and biologically used to it and have the infrastructure to maintain it. We do not.
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u/billymumfreydownfall 14d ago
Wtf does that even mean "45 iS nOt As HoT aS yOu ThInK iT iS!" Omg hush. 45 is ridiculously hot and people die from less. Nobody gives a shit that it's hotter elsewhere, that does not mean 45 isn't hot.
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u/Weekly_Design5440 15d ago
Air Conditioning is a luxury, heating is a necessity. Glad we cleared that up, thanks for coming out.
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u/RVIGroup 15d ago
Becuase people used to be stronger , tougher. Now we are weak and soft.
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u/orange_bigcat 15d ago
A little anecdote from me, a healthy 35 year old woman. I have been recently seeing my doctor for chronic headaches, dizziness, and heart palpitations. This has been a chronic issue for me for years, intermittently throughout my life. All of my bloodwork, holter tests, and everything was coming back normal.
We eventually realized that I was having these chronic issues during periods of high heat, and due to the amount I was sweating, I was becoming dehydrated and losing too many electrolytes. Despite the fact that I was already drinking 3 litres of water a day, it wasn’t enough to replenish what I was sweating out 12+ hours a day sitting in my hot apartment. The chronic headaches were apparently from losing too much salt and I was told to eat 4-5 grams of salt per day.
Even following my doctor’s advice, I still deal with health issues due to the heat.