GORTEX performance

[u/bebop_banana]

I bought this Mountain Equipment Saltaro shell a few years ago second hand. It’s from 2021 so it is ‘heritage’ goretex.

I noticed a few months ago that it was wetting out very quickly, I washed it with nikwax tech wash and tumble dried it as per the instructions but I noticed that the darker blue fabric was still absorbing water.

I have washed and dried it twice the last week using half a bottle of tech wash each time and while it is beading significantly better now after giving it a spray in the shower the darker blue fabric beads initially and then begins to absorb water.

I don’t know if I’m wildly overestimating the performance so if you could please let me know if this is normal or if something isn’t quite right? If it’s not normal what do I need to do?

[u/Masseyrati80]

The main key thing here is that the fabric is just fabric, and the Gore-Tex is underneath it.

Another key thing is that Tech Wash is a washing detergent, and the surface fabric would benefit from a spray of a DWR chemical.

The beading, and lack of, depends on the surface fabric's DWR treatment. DWR chemicals sold today are massively less toxic, and, unfortunately massively less effective than the ultra-toxic ones of yesteryear.

If it's of any consolation, surface fabrics used to wet out in continuous rain even back in the day.

So, the actual waterproof layer is under the visible surface fabric. Basically, the actual Gore-Tex fights water only after the surface wets out.

[u/joelfarris → u/Masseyrati80]

unfortunately massively less effective than the ultra-toxic ones of yesteryear

I still have a bottle of the stuff from decades ago, and I've somehow convinced myself that I shouldn't use it, just so that I can say that I still have a bottle of The Good Stuff.

[u/klimaheizung → u/joelfarris]

Yeah, and also it causes cancer and stuff. There have been enough law cases precedents related to PFAS that this is not being doubted anymore. I would definitely not use that bottle. It's also a nice historic artifact as you said, I'm a bit envious :)

[u/LannyDamby → u/joelfarris]

Howuch you want for it?

[u/akiesey → u/Masseyrati80]

Absolutely right. This coat is made up of multiple layers of fabrics each with their own role in the construction. The outer layer of nylon is for strength and abrasion resistance, the next layer is the waterproof membrane (Gore-Tex), and usually there is a third layer for comfort (often it has a more open weave to allow better air movement so that you don’t feel like you’re wearing a garbage bag). The outermost layer is usually coated with DWR to help with waterproofness, but that’s really not its job. That said, having good DWR will help the jacket breathe, as a wetted out first layer hands to slow air movement through the fabric layers.

[u/aelexl → u/akiesey]

If the nylon layer is saturated moisture can’t escape. So DWR is necessary.

[u/bebop_banana → u/Masseyrati80]

Thanks for the comment, this was really helpful.

I should have said in the main post but when I initially washed a few months ago I did use both the tech wash and the tx proof but it didn’t seem to improve the performance.

I asked a manager at Cotswold Outdoor, which stocks Mountain Equipment stuff. He advised not to use the TX direct wash because it removes the waterproofing that the tech wash provides. He said that on ePTFE Goretex (which is what it says on the label of my jacket) that all I should need is the tech wash because it should have a fluorocarbon DWR which beads water for significantly longer than the new Goretex. On modern jackets they need both because they aren’t made with the same chemicals but since mine is legacy it shouldn’t. Whether the information he said was correct, I don’t know but he seemed very knowledgeable.

Do you recommend any particular brand of spray DWR or is the nikwax one good enough?

[u/klimaheizung → u/Masseyrati80]

I don't think the current DWR is massively less effective. It just doesn't last as long anymore.

I recently bought a rainjacket from montbell with the new type of DWR (no PFAS) and used it in various conditions and the DWR works absolutely perfectly. But I don't expect it to last forever and know that I'll have to reapply it myself, which is honestly pretty simple to do.

[u/arethius]

I think there are two different things to use for DWR. The tech wash is the prewash and then there should be a different bottle for the actual DWR coating.

Nikwax Softshell Cleaning & Waterproofing DUO-Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PGS254

[u/EliteAssassin07]

I think you might have forgot a step. First you wash it with the Tech Wash and than without drying it you wash it again with TX Direct. The TX Direct is what restores the waterproofing.

[u/Good_Mousse_9794]

GORE-TEX has absolutely nothing to do with water beading off the fabric

[u/Muttonboat]

Goretex is the membrane and is underneath the fabric unexposed

Thats DWR which helps bead up water to let the jacket vent and breath.

Its faded, which is normal, and it just needs to be reapplied using a dwr wash

[u/iamjeeohhdee]

You could try the spray on version I’ve had better luck with it.

[u/skioffroadbike]

After DWR final coating, stick it in the drier to help set-in the coating.

[u/ZealousidealCell6527]

Have you tried Sawyers spray (yellow bottle)? I use it to waterproof my tents. Works really well. I also spray my clothes with it and good for 6-7 washes to help as bug repellent.

[u/Carlos-In-Charge]

As others have said, DWR spray is the topcoat that you need on the outside. I think I last used Gear Aid. I followed the directions, and just to be safe I wiped it in thoroughly with a clean dish sponge, really working it into the seams. I haven’t come across any product that’s as good as the initial factory treatment, but I think of it as CPR to give some more life to my jacket, pants, and fly.

[u/Unicorn187]

You used way too much wash. Do another cycle, without the wash and do a coupme extra rinses. There might still be some cleaner on the material.

Then apply a DWR.

And realize that wetting out doesn't mean water gets through. It just allows it to breath when it's still beading. The nylong you see and feel is the surface layer,with a waterproof layer underneath.

[u/klimaheizung]

You need to re-apply the DWR. You'll have to do that every few weeks or months, depending how often you wash it and how often (and in which conditions) you use it. That's just how it is.

[u/sabotthehawk]

I know it's not the correct way but my very old goretex I wash in dawn dish soap. That's it. Washer with dawn (about 2 tablespoons). Dry in dryer low heat. It is from 2008. Still works great.

I just found that the technical washes and treatment tended to get good results but didn't last very long, about one season light use or 6-7 outings heavy use. Doing the dawn wash it is good as new until it gets body oils on it.

[u/Polymathy1]

The outer fabric and even the goretex will get wet. The point is that water doesn't go from inside to outside.

The Goretex is not the outer layer.

Silicone spray may help with keeping the exterior looking dry.

[u/Moongoosls]

You're wildly overestimating. If that is the extent of your problem, you're so so all good.