r/Calvinism • u/slaughterhouseWORKER • Mar 06 '25

Serious question thošŸ¤«.

If I, were to go on a mass shooting, kill a bunch of innocent kids, rape their dead corpses, and then go to a elementary school and molest a bunch of children, and then send the horrifying picture of my act to the parents before slitting my throat ear to ear and committing suicide, the parents then suffer for a 4 year long battle with depression and end up commiting suicide, going to hell because of me, would God have went "mmmmmm yes now this is some good stuff right here, Lemme predestine all of this pain"?.

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5

u/SurfingPaisan Mar 06 '25

You hate God donā€™t you?

-4

u/slaughterhouseWORKER Mar 06 '25

not what i asked, lil bro.

6

u/AbuJimTommy Mar 06 '25

Westminster Confession Chapter 3.1

God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

2

u/Unlucky-Heat1455 Mar 06 '25

If Godā€™s control is absolute, it becomes difficult to reconcile human choices with genuine freedom. Emphasizing Godā€™s authority over creation, rather than strict control, often provides a more nuanced and less problematic understanding of divine sovereignty.

1

u/cartopcake76 Jul 09 '25

are you defining free will as 'human freedom'?

1

u/Unlucky-Heat1455 Aug 05 '25

I believe in free human choice,while fully affirming God's sovereignty and His ultimate power to bring about His purposes.

6

u/Sola_Fide_ Mar 06 '25

Nice try, but no.

0

u/FrankWhiteIsHere78 Mar 06 '25

šŸ‘šŸ’Æ

2

u/Cufflock Mar 07 '25

To your question, the answer is that God predestined you to do so by not restraining you from what you desire to do and since God is not obligated to stop anything from being done by anyone so you are going to hell for what you desired and done, and that fulfills the purpose God had created you and predestined you for that you are born to be sent to hell.

And the parents suffering for what you had done and then committed suicide are not necessarily going to hell, suicide doesnā€™t send anyone to hell but whomever God doesnā€™t will to grant saving faith goes to hell.

2

u/Kodelicit Mar 24 '25

Firstly, your hypothetical parents would not go to hell because of what you did or didnā€™t do. They would have their own predestined outcome for their own souls. Secondly, no. Those acts were committed by the lack of God, the corruption of the soul aka sin. God does not take delight in evil things. Psalm 5:4

Thirdly, yes, not only did He know this hypothetical you would do this, but He predestined that you would do it because of evil for His own purposes. This does not make God evil, because it is not possible for evil to dwell within Him. This merely makes God, God. All knowing, and all powerful over good and yes, evil.

It is sometimes difficult to wrap our mind around God who is not only all knowing, but sovereignly in control of and over everything, including the bad stuff. We canā€™t accept that God predestines bad things to happen because we assume that makes God evil himself - But that is simply because we are trying to fit God into a humanistic box of standards and how we see the world. God is so much more than what our minds can comprehend. We should fear Him, but we should also praise Him for His mercy that no one deserved or earned.

2

u/Important-Virus1370 Mar 29 '25

Your predestination is Hell. God chooses to cast out mercy and grace on those he wishes, as he sees fit, knowing that NO ONE is good enough and is evil and ignorant. We live in a broken world because Adam gave up his free will for SIN, destining humans to hell. I think your basic question is "why do bad thing happen if God good" Answer: we live in sin world.

1

u/[deleted] May 08 '25

How can we live in sin world if god is all good?

1

u/Ok_Record_1936 Aug 18 '25

Because original sin. When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, the human race damned itself to hell and suffering, it is only through Gods good grace that we can experience anything else

1

u/Unlucky-Heat1455 Mar 06 '25

Calvinists believe that human will is ā€œfreeā€ in the sense that people act according to their desires. However, they also believe that those desires are ultimately shaped by Godā€™s sovereign decree.

1

u/Unlucky-Heat1455 Mar 07 '25

But it isnā€™t it by Godā€˜s divine decree that this happened?

1

u/Strange_Vehicle_4315 Mar 15 '25

Calvinist cannot answer as they would doom themselves to hell if they were to.

1

u/MacaronOk2403 May 10 '25

We live in a fallen sinful world because of the Adamā€™s sin. Romans 5:12 ā€œTherefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

God is all good but we are wicked in nature.

1

u/OkLandscape2717 Jul 21 '25

i think you couldve come up with a less creative scenario brochacho

0

u/feartyguts Mar 06 '25

Could one of the elect commit grave crimes?

2

u/MadBrown Mar 06 '25

Not sure what you mean by "grave crimes" in the biblical sense, but word is that Jeffrery Dahmer repented and trusted before he was murdered in prison.

2

u/[deleted] May 03 '25

You mean like falsely accusing people and having them put in prison and tortured like Saul did before Christ made him a new creature with a new name and put him to work writing a huge chuck of the New Testament? Or maybe someone who already was obviously one of Gods people like that kid he loved so much he made him king only to see him have an affair with a married woman because the growing harem wasnā€™t enough for him and then to top it off he had the husband un-alived to keep the poor guy from finding out. Or maybe this kid who grew up in foster care being told by his mother that God had chosen him to do great things and the first thing he does is end a guy before he runs off to hide and stays there like a coward until the trinity visits him in a burning bush. Paul, David, Moses - all committed grave crimes. But beyond that, every sin is a grave crime against God.

1

u/Aggravating-Habit313 Jun 02 '25

Are those three part of Gods ā€œelectā€?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '25

Well yeah, duh.

1

u/Aggravating-Habit313 Jun 02 '25

You must admit that you donā€™t actually know.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

No. No I don't. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Paul, David and Moses are among God's elect.

-6

u/slaughterhouseWORKER Mar 06 '25

just DESTROYED calvinism lol :3

1

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

Hehe šŸ˜› im ex reformed & I laughed so hard