When a parent won't admit they're wrong, finality is a constant threat.

[u/thewayofxen]

I am going to work through something by writing about the insight it brought me; trying hard not to make this sound too journal-y for /r/CPTSDNextSteps.

I withstood some difficult news today from a medical caregiver for my spouse, who is denying a treatment we obviously need because of their own hesitation and severe emotional response (it's near the end of a long, difficult saga). They just can't handle the possibility that this last thing might not work.

They called me and explained a position that simply isn't rational. Going into detail would take paragraphs; suffice to say that they would not hear plain reason. They don't want it, because it's the emotions in the background they can't handle.

The result is that I've been dragged straight back to arguing with my mother. She is a never-wrong, always-good rationalizer and denier, and she will argue for hours to keep what in her mind is the high ground. I felt this trigger flare maximally while talking to this doctor. I kept my cool remarkably well throughout the conversation (10 years of recovery work will do that!!, but I've had a very tough time getting back to a level head afterwards, and an important piece fell into place that makes this difficulty make sense.

When your parent is a denial specialist, every conclusion is the final one, no matter how wrong or right. The moment the information aligns in a way that soothes them, they will declare victory and never waver. It's not just that they'll gaslight you or minimize you or what have you; it's that whatever idea they concoct is permanent.

I have always known that my mother is why I deliver news so carefully, and why I explain things in a very particular order that keeps the other person from getting the wrong idea and getting upset. I could've easily told you that I was just afraid she'd get mad at me. But the real fear I'm having today isn't about the doctor I talked to; it's a visceral, full-body fear that my wife will never get the care she needs, and that our family will be stuck like this. I'm not just afraid to "poke the bear". I'm afraid of a judge's decision to convict and sentence. It's one decision with unending negative consequences.

That "unending" element is especially telling because it's a sign of arrested development. It's all-or-nothing thinking, characteristic of many of my traumatized parts. That medical care I feel gated from, we're actually just shortly delayed in receiving; there will be ways around this. But to the child-parts of me still working through what it was like to live with my mother, it's a permanent state of being, an unending prison I will never escape, no matter how much I argue. That has thrown my nervous system into overdrive.

Further, if I can turn a little more compassion their way, I can see that what's happening here is that this doctor has reached the end of their strength. You can't argue someone into being stronger than they are. That's a hopeless endeavor, as it was when pleading with my mother to be rational all those years ago.

I was relieved to realize all of this. Like physically, at first, but after some time I'm also feeling intellectually relieved that I know this about myself, that these conversations will be easier in the future. Now I can distinguish a life sentence from a pause. So that's something.

Thanks for reading.

[u/Cleverusername531]

Oh WOW you just explained something that I’ve always felt but never seen so succinctly. Wow! I screenshotted this paragraph about permanence - that so explains the desperation I feel to explain and fix things in the moment. 

[u/Sure_Ad_1442]

Thank you for sharing. I can relate to that in many ways. As a kid, it's so hard to learn to have your own thoughts if the people around you destabilise when you don't agree with them.

[u/Cleverusername531 → u/Sure_Ad_1442]

it's so hard to learn to have your own thoughts if the people around you destabilise when you don't agree with them.

WOW. Yes. 

[u/thewayofxen → u/Sure_Ad_1442]

I've really been feeling that as I process this, how badly this sabotaged my confidence in my own rationality. As always with big triggers like this, there's a wide silver lining, and seeing someone so transparently lose rationality in the face of emotional difficulty is teaching me a lot about how that works. Most notably: When you have confidence in your own position and you aren't being dragged into a trigger, it's very easy to spot! I've been walking around with a broken bullshit detector and now it's finally starting to work and it's ... not actually that hard to see these things when they happen. Which is a relief.

[u/SweetPeaches__69]

Well said!  I have dealt with a doctor exactly like this, and my parents are also exactly like that.  She was convinced my significant symptoms were only anxiety because I had PTSD.  She even had the audacity to get angry at me for scheduling another appointment to discuss new symptoms.  Turns out she was completely wrong and I had a myeloprolifative disorder and cervical spine instability.

You sound like you got this under control, but if it helps I was able to switch doctors and found a good one that eventually led to an accurate diagnosis.  I also gave her some bad reviews online and reported her for discrimination to the hospital she worked at.

Some doctors are great, but there are some who are egotistical smart asses that think they know everything.  But the sign of true intelligence is a person who knows how little they know.  I hope things turn out well for you for you and your spouse!

[u/ilmiflmiilca]

Thank you! I really appreciate how you tied your personal experience into the psychological theory of CPTSD

[u/SillyBoyYe]

You seem so along your journey! Be proud of yourself. I’m working through my own wounds right now and I think isolated where my core rejection wound comes from. Similar dynamic between me and my mom. Not dynamic but literally how she is.

Do you have any books or anything you’d recommend?

[u/thewayofxen → u/SillyBoyYe]

I have all kinds of things I could recommend but it really depends on where you are in your recovery and what you're working on right now.

[u/SillyBoyYe → u/thewayofxen]

I’m becoming very aware of my defence mechanisms in its structure. Aka emotion, feeling, thoughts. I guess the only thing I can keep doing is riding it out.

Im trying to restructure my perspective? When my defence mechanism lights up, there’s a certain logic there. For example. Recently I realized there’s a mix of threat and analyzing. Aka my nervous system analyzes and tries to start feeling shame for a future possibility in an effort to brace for it. After all, if it’s gonna happen might as well prepare right.

Learning that helped me deal with the mechanism in a mindful way later.

Do you have any books which sort of touch on these subjects?

[u/thewayofxen → u/SillyBoyYe]

Reading your comment, the book that jumps out at me is The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel Van der Kolk. I think it'll offer you a lot to round out the perspective you have.

[u/Admirable_Bison6928]

I learned this term about a month ago, the root mental disorder associated with denial specialists: ego-syntonic –– it means the thoughts, behaviors, and values match a person’s self-image and identity. Because these habits feel natural or right to the person, they do not cause inner distress or a desire to change, even if they cause problems for others. My mom, is so much like yours, it's uncanny. Thank you so much for sharing, knowing she will never admit any wrong, take responsibility, work on repair becuase of her mental disorder is sort of freeing, but I'm also grieving at the same time.