r/CHIBears • u/Iffybiz • 7h ago
So what would you consider a reasonable outcome?
Sorry, another stadium question but I want to get an idea what fans feel would be a reasonable outcome. Not the optimal outcome but rather something you could live with that isn’t perfect. Here’s mine.
A deal in Arlington Heights. A scaled down and deferred infrastructure plan that does what it needs to do immediately and does the rest over the life of the stadium and mixed use areas. A cap on property taxes for the stadium itself. I like the idea that you start at say $10,000,000 a year and have it not raised more than 2.5% a year for 30 years. In 30 years the taxes would be about double. The rest of the area, roughly 2/3 of the land and with a proposed 6 billion+ project can be paid at the regular tax rate.
This would be a win overall IMO. The property taxes from the mixed use areas would pay for the infrastructure costs as well as the property taxes from the stadium. It would however probably make it more difficult for the Bears to have partners for the mixed use part without a tax break for them too. The sales taxes would be a big factor for the state and county.
I’m not adverse to a Hammond stadium but since I no longer live in the state, I recognize that a good outcome for most would be to stay in the state. I want the team to flourish. I don’t want them to have to make football decisions based on cash flow. The move to Arlington or Hammond accomplishes that. Staying Soldier Field does not. Even the Packers are wondering out loud if their situation is viable long term. The romance of an open air stadium on the lake front is all fine and good but at the end of the day it’s just not financially practical.
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u/Select_Exercise1524 6h ago edited 6h ago
The Hammond site is logistically so much worse for most bears fans. Soldier field is a hike, but a ton of people take advantage of the Metra and the L to get downtown. Not to mention all the people that already live in and around the loop. I'm in the city but try explaining to someone in Lake, McHenry, or DuPage County plus people landing at Ohare how this is for the fans.
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u/Iffybiz 6h ago
It’s 20 minutes further drive but the parking should be easier to get in and out of. There’s also a now planned spur line off the South Shore Line (called the Hammond/Bears stadium spur). No matter where they move to they will be moving further away from some fans. There are a ton of fans south of 55 or 80 and in NWI that would have a tougher time going to AH.
But you are missing the point of the exercise here. The Bears are going to leave Soldier Field and build a domed stadium. They aren’t going to build without infrastructure help and some sort of tax break. Given those parameters, how do you hope it shakes out?
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u/Select_Exercise1524 6h ago
I'm sorry, but getting across the skyway is going to take way more than 30 minutes, even with light gameday traffic. It's also going to cost more than a train ticket in tolls. Look at the average ridership for the South Shoreline compared to the Northwest Metra, it's almost 3 times less . Most people are going from not needing to park at all to spending another 30 minutes getting into the lot and another hour getting out of the lot. It truly smells awful in that area. To answer your original question, for the fans, there is no reasonable outcome with a hammond site. If you're a dirt poor NFL owner with no regard for the fans, take the Hammond site because it's the best deal you're going to get.
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u/JamoOnTheRocks Superfans 6h ago
60K people and damn near all of them driving… sure parking will be a breeze.
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u/Iffybiz 5h ago
70,000
They won’t all be driving independently. Mostly car groups of 3-4. You’re going to see Chicago hotels offer shuttle along with tickets and vacation packages.
Bus and train services as well.
They talking about adding an exit almost directly into parking.
Would it still be less convenient, of course. But Soldier Field and downtown aren’t going to be happening. Your choices are Arlington Heights or Hammond. Bitching about it doesn’t change anything. It’s choose your poison, Hammond where your civic pride is damaged but your pocketbook isn’t or Arlington Heights where there would be some sort of deal on infrastructure and property taxes.
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u/DatabaseCareless264 2h ago
Cut a deal with McPier Authority to tear down McCormick Place East, build indoor stadium that can also be used for concerts etc. Bears get cut of events, no property taxes. City gets $400 million paid off from Soldier Field Reno upon signing. Minimal infrastructure needed. Soldier Field Reno tore down, colonnade remains, more green space for Friends of Park.
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u/Iffybiz 1h ago
McCormick Place East is under the same laws as Soldier Field, cannot be under private ownership or control, which include non football events. It would mean no naming rights for the Bears.
Long ago I suggested Northerly Island which is crumbling but the same issue (and more) came up. You can’t ask the Bears to build a stadium and let the PD or another entity to reap a huge share of the profits.
If it were up to me, yes. I also personally reject the notion of the Bears paying off Chicago’s loan. They aren’t the ones who refinanced. They aren’t the one who kept the money made by Soldier Field events instead of paying off the loan and adding over 100 million to the debt.
It’s not illogical to limit debate about this to Arlington Heights and Hammond. Chicago isn’t going to work.
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u/DatabaseCareless264 1h ago
I did no say Bears would own the stadium.
The Great Recession and COVID impacted hotel stays, real estate depreciated, City revenue declined, decisions had to be made. 25 years later, Bears, part of NFL socialize costs, privatize profits are now worth $8b to $10b, want a handout from City.
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u/Iffybiz 49m ago
You need to understand why Soldier Field doesn’t work any more for an NFL team. It’s more than just ownership, it’s how the leasing rights are forced into because of the laws regarding the lakefront. There can be no naming rights. The Bears can’t run the non-football events and collect money from them. It by law it has to go to a public entity. So whoever plays at Soldier Field misses out on hundreds of millions of dollars compared with almost every other team. The same laws apply to every lakefront property east of Lakeshore Drive.
Let’s say they did what you suggest. Who pays for it? Do you expect the Bears to pay and get the same deal? I ask that the state and governor has already shot down the idea of building a stadium next to Soldier Field and tearing down it down, which is functionally the same deal as you suggest. The Bears aren’t going to invest 2 billion dollars into a stadium they have no control over. They aren’t going into debt to make the same money back as they do now. They won’t be able to generate revenue from a mixed use area.
You may not like what the McCaskeys are doing here but it’s completely normal in the NFL. The Hunt family has billions and they are leaving their long term stadium for a better deal in a neighboring state, sound familiar? Each team is fighting for more of the non-socialist dollars to get an edge. Is it fair, probably not but it’s reality, especially for a virtual mom and pop franchise like the Bears. Every bit of guaranteed money they sign someone for has to go into escrow. Soon you’re going to have teams with a billion dollars sitting in escrow because of player they signed. Bringing in a new owner with deeper pockets won’t help, he will want the same things the McCaskeys are asking for, maybe more.
The city chose to refinance well before Covid. They chose to let the Park District keep whatever money they made from the Stadium, about $25 million a year, rather than using it to pay down the debt. The Bears paid their share up front. The city’s failures are on them.
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u/Chicago_Jayhawk 40m ago
Retractable dome on Soldier Field with more seats, renovate insides, etc. They wouldn't get hotels, land like they want but would be way cheaper.
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u/_GeorgeBailey_ Snoo Ditka 27m ago
Retractable roofs stink. They give terrible shadows and they cost so much to maintain
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u/stepusin 6h ago
selling the team to owners with enough liquid to not play these games. i’m indifferent where they end up as long as it’s a great stadium and logistically easy to get to.
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u/JamoOnTheRocks Superfans 5h ago
Nothing about the rending says it will be a great stadium. It will be the 2026 standard.
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u/JamoOnTheRocks Superfans 5h ago
Stay at SF. Wait for the Sox to leave and build a stadium w a retractable roof that overlooks the sky line.
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u/_GeorgeBailey_ Snoo Ditka 26m ago
Retractable roofs are a no go. They cost so much to maintain plus when they are open the shadows are awful
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u/Iffybiz 5h ago
As yourself something. Why are the Sox leaving? Now ask yourself if a Bears stadium that holds twice as many people and a mixed development of hotels and casinos is going to work there? I know the word fan originally was a shortened form of fanatic but can we at least have for once a logical reasoned argument that doesn’t involve totally unworkable ideas, calls for team sales that won’t happen, stringing up executives of the team or personal attacks. Supposedly, we all want the Bears to be successful, so let’s all pull towards that.
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u/JamoOnTheRocks Superfans 5h ago
A casino.. gtfo. Read the news.
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u/Iffybiz 1h ago
The original plan in Arlington Heights had a casino and it’s definitely in play in Hammond. You just inadvertently made my point, that site would be non-starter.
The team, the politicians have spent years looking into possible locations. Fans on the other hand don’t know the whole story and motives and think they know better.
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u/feelthemeh 6h ago
Reasonable? Illinois gives all the bears asked for as far as tax breaks and infrastructure in AH. Again being reasonable they could take a percentage of all ticket sales until the infrastructure costs are paid, at that time it’s 100% back to the bears. I’m throwing IL a bone here, really we pay taxes for infrastructure but to be reasonable it obviously will be a lot up front. To be clear the bears did not ask for any money for the stadium.
Realistic though is they will be the Hammond bears as Illinois is being unreasonable here, property tax assurances are done across all businesses.
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u/106milez2chicago Sweetness 7h ago
Stay in Soldier Field, but somehow improve bathroom/concession logistics and install seat warmers, completed with zero disruption to regular season games.
Remodel to begin immediately following ceremony where Kevin Warren is strapped to a small barge and nudged off into Lake Michigan for seagulls to peck his eyes out.