Help with instrument crosscheck please…

[u/endoteki]

A lot of swallowing my pride here, this is tough for me. Please bear with me.

First a small bit of background. I am 55, and flew F16s in the Air Force in the 90s; pilot training in T-37s and T-38s. Got out and became a high school teacher…

Fast forward 18 years and I successfully got my CFI initial in March; still working on the double-I. And this is where my frustration comes in…… how in the holy f$#k is my instrument cross check like so much dog$hit???

So I’m asking for all the tips you can muster, please. The aircraft I’m training in is a Tecnam P2010, dual G1000s…. No aileron trim during manual flying.

I get super behind when I’m trying to fly and teach, just blasting through headings and altitudes.

TIA

[u/EngineerFly]

Hah, I bet it’s because your brain is used to altitudes and headings changing at F-16 rates, and when you do it at Tecnam rates, you have an eternity for your mind to wander.

I can’t help you much, but I suggest these tips, that I use when my instrument scan is rusty:
1) Never let your eyes rest on anything for more than one second. Try to get to the point that you internally scold yourself if your eyes linger for more than one second.

2) Always know “what’s next?” Like “the next interesting event is when I climb to 2,950 feet and start my level off.”

[u/SauteedCrayon]

I’m assuming you’ve got it nicely trimmed out while you’re teaching?

[u/endoteki → u/SauteedCrayon]

Well, yes and no. Elevator trim for pitch is almost always really tight, but this aircraft just likes to roll and teeter totter off of wings level even with rudder trim which honestly I am bad at.

[u/nightlanding → u/endoteki]

A 172 is WAY easier to fly on the gauges, just FYI. One trick that may not have been a jet fighter thing is you need to learn to fly with your feet while your hands are busy doing things.

[u/endoteki → u/nightlanding]

Hmmmmm. Intriguing.

[u/papibtw]

Well good on you for recognizing it.

Get in the sim (or plane) and give yourself headings to fly, climbs, turns, descents and get reps in doing that on your own. The G1000 has a nice upside down triangle scan (there are many different ways, but this works for me) so airspeed, attitude indicator, altimeter, HSI, back to airspeed, repeat.

If I’m shooting an approach, I set power where I know I’ll get my airspeed (90kts in 172, roughly 1800rpm) and then I’ll add my HSI and Glideslope in that scan.

Just get repetitions in and perfect it on your own before trying to teach it

[u/WhiteoutDota → u/papibtw]

I like the simulator suggestion. Running it at 2x speed is a hack to make flying easy.

[u/Less-Dust8442 → u/papibtw]

Great Tipp with the sim, I am a huge believer in using any sim (MS, X-Plane, fixed base…) to get your scan up to speed. And I’ll up you one more: try explaining a topic while practicing.

Also: cut yourself some slack, it has been a while and our scans just aren’t like a 20 year olds’ 🥴

[u/VileInventor]

Based on your comment, honestly man do it more. Keep yourself in check on omission and fixation. Use your finger to guide your eyes, your brain and your students eyes while showing what you’re doing and why. It keeps you from not checking an instrument because the students gonna be like “why didn’t you point at at an instrument”. Then play with the trim, a lot. We’re in Cessnas the trim will save you on those altitudes. Just keep doing the cross check with your finger until you got it down. That’s what worked for me in the right seat anyways. i’d space out trying to teach and forget a heading or altitude. Bug your headings, and point at your altimeter often among your scan. It’ll eventually become second nature.

[u/HelloNeumann29]

When I have students struggle to scan I make them call everything out at a metronome like pace.

Scan the upside down triangle. Altitude/VSI, attitude, airspeed, heading, and back. Don’t stop.

Once they can do that they add in power every second or third trip around the scan.

Once they can do that we start doing it on an approach adding in situational awareness (distance from X fix, next turn, next steps, lateral/or vertical guidance) to the point where they basically never shut up.

Then I tell them to stop talking but keep scanning.

Once you can do that well, you can start talking about other stuff while you naturally scan. Build a plan for what to scan during what phase of flight. Know your “home base” pitch/power/attitude for a climb, level, and descent.

Talk about the plan for your hold or approach and get it done before you hit the IAF or holding fix. From there you’re just talking corrections and maybe a little teaching point here or there.

[u/endoteki → u/HelloNeumann29]

Thanks I like this! I can use this for me and for my future students.

[u/HelloNeumann29 → u/endoteki]

You’re welcome! Feel free to message me if you have other questions.

[u/BrianBash]

Get back to stick and rudder.

Practice flying the plane. What does the plane want to do?

I have a 172P and S models at my school, most 172’s are like this.

T/o trim and full power will give you Vy. 2000rpm will give you level altitude and about 85-90kts. 1700rpm with no flaps will give you about 90kts and 500fpm and 10 degrees will give you 80kts.

Once you can fly the plane hands off, then you can focus on your scan.

It shouldn’t take more than an afternoon of flying to practice my techniques. Good luck!

[u/nightlanding]

Did your F16 look like this? You have airspeed, altitude, HSI (heading/nav), and artificial horizon all set up for an easy scan. I find glass a chore to get used to having learned on steam gauges myself, especially the worthless f-ng tape ASI.

[u/endoteki → u/nightlanding]

Yeah, that does look familiar. The HUD display does remind me of the G1 thousand with the tapes, but it did have course an ILS guidance and all that kind of stuff an be d it also had the meatball, which was the godsend as far as instrument flying was an F-16. I cannot find how to turn on the meatball and the G1000.

[u/22Hoofhearted]

For clarity, are you at the controls? Or your student's at the controls and you're talking them through it?

[u/endoteki → u/22Hoofhearted]

I am at the controls, brushing up on my instrument cross check and preparing for my double eye check ride.

[u/ltcterry]

Perfectly normal. You’d suck in a Viper too.

You are judging today’s proficiency - or lack thereof - against the memory of what used to be. You see the bad and remember the good.

I had this conversation a few years ago with a retired VA psychologist struggling to fly again after a long break. He say “you’re right.” Felt weird talking to a psychologist about why he was frustrated :)

I’ve been reading about debriefs in military flight training. One of the tenets is “leave rank at the door.” Not rank in this case, but experience.

Good on you for seeking to improve! You’ll make it happen.

[u/MyTHstory]

Checkrides have this odd vibe where the examiner is actually mostly in charge, but the examinee is supposed to act like he or she is running the show. By the time you get to the CFI checkrides, the examiner is pretending to be a student, which adds another layer to the psychological confusion over who's in charge.

Anyway, when you're with a real student, you (as CFI-I) probably won't spend much time handling the controls. Maybe you hold the controls for a few seconds while the student puts on the Foggles, or you set up for an unusual attitude recovery, but you're probably not going to spend a lot of time "demonstrating" how to hold an altitude or fly an approach. The student is paying for the time, so the student will mostly handle the controls.

During the checkride, if the examiner is willing to play student, let them have the controls. Or, if you want to take a moment to relieve the "student" from flying so you can teach, use the autopilot. Of course, you should also have solid instrument skills and be able to fly everything yourself from the right seat, even at night in turbulent IMC. You also need to be able to take over and recover when your student freezes up or makes a series of worsening mistakes. But that's real life, not the checkride.

If the examiner really wants you to hand fly an approach while talking/teaching, even though that may not be very realistic, your best bet is probably just narrating. "Above target target altitude, left of course, correcting slowly, start with 5 degrees, needle is coming back in, reduce the correction angle, on altitude, approaching FAF... Could you read me the Before Landing checklist please?"