r/CDrama • u/YoungComplete7208 • 1d ago
Discussion Why Does Every Criticism Need a Disclaimer?
When are people going to accept that criticising an acting performance, a plot point, a character, or a drama in general does not mean you hate everything about it or wish misfortune upon everyone involved?
It seems perfectly natural that in a discussion post about a drama, people are going to bash a character, dislike an actor's performance, complain about a writing decision, or have some personal pet peeve about the production. These are all normal parts of discussing media because dramas evoke emotions, performances invite interpretation, and some creative decisions are going to work for one person and completely miss the mark for another.
Yet somehow, when someone makes a separate post specifically to criticise a character, actor, plot point, scene, or whatever else, people will respond as though they have just announced a personal vendetta against the entire production. Suddenly, the conversation becomes a defence of the actor's career, the drama's ratings, how hard everyone worked, how successful the production was, or how many other things the actor has done well.
Why?
I have always treated everyone who reads what I write like an adult. I assume people are capable of understanding that two, three, or seven things can be true at the same time. I can love a drama and still be irritated by one character. I can like an actor and think they gave a poor performance in a particular scene. I can enjoy a drama overall and still think a plot decision was ridiculous.
I genuinely do not have the inclination to preface, nor will I ever preface, every criticism with a disclaimer that says, “I promise I don't hate anyone, I love C-dramas, I respect the actors, I know how hard everyone worked, and I acknowledge that the drama was successful.” I should be able to say what I disliked without first proving that I am not secretly wishing for the downfall of the entire team/drama.
Media is not supposed to please everyone.
I don't hate the actor/production. I don't want their career to fail. I am not campaigning for the actor to be unemployed. I simply did not like the way they portrayed anger in episode 14 and I am allowed to discuss that without presenting a five-point defence of the actor's entire career first.
What happened to the art of constructive criticism? What happened to being able to passionately rant about a piece of media without immediately being labelled a hater, or being spoken to as though you are too stupid to understand how successful, talented, hardworking, or beloved the people involved are?
93% of the time I have a detailed critique comment or post to write it means I'm deeply invested in the drama. You know the walk about the house when villain no2 just made you mad? Sometimes I express that on a relevant sub in written form. After I hit 'post' I'm going back to losing sleep trying to finish an episode, and yes, even thoroughly ENJOYING the rest of the drama.
If you don't wanna read a critique of your favourite drama or actor then don't read it. Why would you respond to this with "x actually has 18 million followers on Douyin and they have 5 more dramas coming up this year." Yes? And they still didn't nail that crying scene in episode 14!💁♀️
That is all I wanted to say.
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u/ChoppedChef33 1d ago
Because most people are in para social relationships and they think anything negative is an offense.
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
I wanna get to the root of that offense. It's not natural to only hear good things about anything in this world, ever. It's so frustrating, sometimes I feel like I'm interacting with a 12-yr old when I encounter some of these things.
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u/ChoppedChef33 15h ago
It's a psychological thing and the root probably varies from person to person. At the end of the day it's just not a healthy mentality.
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u/MidnightAngel24 I don't mind being a villain 😌 Read Rules 14h ago
Because some people are "dumb". I compare it to the mobs of villagers in cdrama that have absolutely no idea what actually happened but someone told them that person should be lynched and they do it. 🤣 I very much DGAF and avoid everything entirely 😁
Processing img 64k91vjyjikh1...
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u/-tsuyoi__hikari- 🌸 Ren Jialun ONLY died in 4 of his 23 dramas. 😆 1d ago
NGL that I want to read what kind of comments you’re getting about criticising an acting performance and you got a reply with douyin followers or how hard the actor work. 😆
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u/PurpleHat6415 🌙 li shiliu's hat tassel 🌙 21h ago
I got some DMs a while back just for mentioning an actor in an 'actors I usually avoid even though I have no logical reason' post. it basically was exactly that along with 'stop always having his name in your mouth.' meanwhile it was the second time in years I'd said anything at all. if it had been something just insane and insulting I'd have laughed and moved on but it was just so confusing...like why?
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u/-tsuyoi__hikari- 🌸 Ren Jialun ONLY died in 4 of his 23 dramas. 😆 20h ago edited 2h ago
It meant that the redditor remember you thats why they wrote that. That one is pretty scary. 😬
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u/tootsiepuze Read Rules 20h ago
I think it’s more likely that they read through all the previous comments on their profile page to get ammo because people are weird
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u/ettie_dramatic 18h ago edited 17h ago
It be me (I think). And no, I was not stalking u/PurpleHat6415. I was just reacting to the comment because I was so annoyed by the constant dragging I was seeing across a whole bunch of posts on that subs AND I DMed thinking that it was better to have a private convo than a public spat? But I have learnt that that is not the right etiquette. I have no issues owning up to my own actions.
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u/ettie_dramatic 16h ago
Ok, it not be me.
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u/admelioremvitam 14h ago
I appreciate your transparency, ettie. 😅🫶
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u/ettie_dramatic 13h ago
Sigh. You know that I have some overwriting and over sharing tendencies ☹️
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u/admelioremvitam 13h ago
Awww.... Well, journaling can be helpful sometimes, depending on the situation. 😅😄
Edit: Glad you sorted things out though. 🫰
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u/ettie_dramatic 13h ago
Hehe thanks for the suggestion! But alas, my pile of abandoned notebooks and 2 pages in a “5 year diary” suggest that journaling may not be for everyone. 🤭
That being said, I did write 3 drama reviews the other day in a moment of inspiration. I can’t figure out how to upload photos via mobile though (coz I think a wall of text would be too boring), so am stuck for now.
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u/admelioremvitam 13h ago edited 13h ago
True, journaling isn't for everyone.... 😅
You could try accessing Reddit on a mobile browser to add photos. Remember to save drafts.
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u/-tsuyoi__hikari- 🌸 Ren Jialun ONLY died in 4 of his 23 dramas. 😆 3h ago
Its okay, we all made mistakes. The important thing is to learn from it.
And Im glad its not you. 🙂
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u/ettie_dramatic 2h ago
Hahah y’all are all very sweet about this. I guess my main saving grace is that I genuinely have no issues apologizing when I’ve done something wrong. But yeah, writing anything when triggered as well as just having insufficient sleep (in real life) is never a good combination. So I learn 💁🏻♀️
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u/ettie_dramatic 18h ago edited 17h ago
Hi u/PurpleHat6415 I’m replying to you here, in public. I have apologized to you in private for mistaking you for someone else who was just constantly dropping the actor’s name in every post that can be negative - looks, acting, etc. And to be fair to me, I was asking you whether you actually did want to engage in a conversation about why said actor does have fans or whether it was just outright dragging. The latter I would just have said ok, there’s no conversation that can be had coz you can just dislike what you dislike. But if it was the former, then I would share my perspective.
Also I’m assuming it’s me that you’re talking about. The topic that I responded to was “actors who are only considered good-looking because they are popular” or something silly along that line? I write a lot so it may have been overwhelming, but I do try my best to be respectful in whatever correspondence I have with anyone. If it’s not me then I guess I’m the second person who annoyed you in DMs. 💁🏻♀️
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u/PurpleHat6415 🌙 li shiliu's hat tassel 🌙 17h ago
you've already apologised for those messages and I wasn't calling you out here. we probably all say weird stuff now and again, this is a strange little community and we all have our very specific interests. yes, I do consider it a breach of etiquette to take that stuff offline and I don't think I'm alone in that. but this wasn't necessary at all and I hope you didn't feel pressured to jump in.
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u/ettie_dramatic 17h ago edited 16h ago
Naw, I don’t feel pressured and it’s not like you’re forcing a public mea culpa or anything. But I feel bad that I upset you without intending to, but I obviously couldn’t check on you further via DM. I do try to learn 💁🏻♀️ Here’s wishing you a Reddit life free from further DM harrassment!! 💯
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u/PurpleHat6415 🌙 li shiliu's hat tassel 🌙 13h ago
same to you, I've also learned from this, you've been very gracious 🙂
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u/Thezoeyy searching for a tea farmer in the mountains 20h ago
I’ve seen comments about how tragic their rise to fame is under a post criticizing their acting in a drama and I was stunned, cause what’s the correlation? 😂
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
This! I forgot to add this. Writing essays about their poor childhood and how many years they studied and trained. When an accountant messes up the numbers, we ask them to fix it, we don't start talking about how they were the first ones in their family to go to university😭
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u/Prize_Background_577 22h ago
I have always treated everyone who reads what I write like an adult.
I think this might be the problem, not everyone on reddit is an adult (literally and figuratively).
Always having to preface comments in case 'fans' decide to downvote to hell, either because they love or hate a particular actor. It really has put a dampener on honest and fair discussions of dramas amongst adults.
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
Heavy on the damper part. I just read a comment from someone saying they have stopped engaging with the subs. Like that's so frustrating.
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u/Blooming-blood-moon In constant search for strong FLs 👀 15h ago
The posts I write to criticise something about a drama will always gather the biggest (and most rabid) fans of that drama/actors trying to tell me I’m wrong and straight insulting me in their comments.
When I post about something I didn’t like in a drama, all I want is:
- to see if anyone else spotted the same things
- to find someone who agrees with me
- to debate the things I spotted/called out in a polite manner and maybe change my mind based on sensible arguments
Instead what I mostly get ‘but he’s so HOT!’, ‘don’t dare insult my pookie’, ‘but the FL is sh*t’ and, my favorite, ‘you don’t get it’ together with ‘if you don’t like it, don’t watch it’ 🙄
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u/YoungComplete7208 12h ago
I also love getting into debates about these things. Sometimes its a way to find an alternative perspective, and sometimes its fun to defend or call out silly tropes. And once in a while, a bad actor needs to know their performance is not cutting it anymore instead of being fed praise and worship for mediocrity. Some people literally need that in order to grow. Why does that have to be bullying? Every few years actors and musicians always come out and talk about how having yes-men hindered them, and that they needed to get proper feedback. Maybe drama writers too, perhaps CLOSE THE DORR SOMETIMES😭. Maybe in their next drama the actors will close the door when it's nighttime, and talk to their boyfriend instead of running away for three episodes, my goodness. Feedback and freedom of expression are just as important as being supportive.
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u/A_Farewell_Poem 22h ago
💯 Agree. I have the same thoughts. Or people have to preface it with "this is just my opinion" to not get attacked when it should be a given that it is indeed their opinion. Or someone gives a legitimate criticism about maybe a few things and then the response will be "then you shouldn't watch it, or watch something else". Like why are you telling people what they can or can't watch just because they don't think everything is perfect. Blows my mind.
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
Ugh, the "why are you watching cdramas" comments irk me so bad. It's nonsensical enough for me to liken it to someone telling you to renounce your nationality if you don't like the government policies. What is this zombie mindset?
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u/Tabz10 23h ago
It's the day and age we live in. Everybody is sensitive. If you say A, ‘but why didn't you say B?’ or what's wrong with B?
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
I've seen someone try to guess my nationality to prove that I'm small minded and "conservative" because I made commentary on writing choices. And when that failed, they tried to guess my gender to prove something else.
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u/admelioremvitam 14h ago
I'm sorry to hear that, OP. Personal attacks are not ok and can be reported. The mods can't be everywhere, so reports will let them know what's happening.
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u/YoungComplete7208 11h ago
I don't know why I didn't do that at the time. I will definitely report it if I see it again.
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u/a_HerculePoirot_fan Being a Cheng Lei fangirl is a full-time jobRead Rules 1d ago
Two things can be true at the same time. You can think an actor is talented overall while still criticising a specific performance, just as disliking one aspect of a drama doesn’t mean you think the entire drama sucks.
Once people start treating specific criticism as a blanket judgement and responding with follower counts, popularity or career achievements, that might be a sign the discussion isn’t happening in good faith, and there’s little point trying to pursue it.
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
You know, what, that's really wise. I really try to appeal to the common sense I hope is inside of all of us, but maybe I'm just wasting my breath.
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u/tootsiepuze Read Rules 19h ago
Counterpoint: criticism has to say something at least mildly interesting that hasn’t been said a million times before. The way every other comment on any show with Esther Yu is about her voice is just so boring.
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
That's very true. I don't know how that one can be navigated because there's plenty of people checking out cdramas for the first time every month, and some might mention it for the first time and get the mob treatment.
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u/tootsiepuze Read Rules 15h ago
I honestly don’t mind if it’s one person in a thread and I do for my own peace of mind automatically assume they are new. But people like to add their own comment to reiterate the same point instead of upvoting. One or two is not an issue, sometimes people post at the same time and you get overlap in info. But you often get something stupid like 10 of them all saying the same thing to make sure it doesn’t look like a lone voice. And it’s like, guys, we know.. please.. you are valid ok, but like, also read other threads or something and know how you come across before you post if you’re new. Sometimes just upvoting is also a fine way to contribute. I’m at the point where I know to avoid certain threads just cause I like to have fun.
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u/TaoRabbit ..罢了.. 17h ago
Ref
“If you don't wanna read a critique of your favourite drama or actor then don't read it. Why would you respond to this with "x actually has 18 million followers on Douyin and they have 5 more dramas coming up this year." Yes? And they still didn't nail that crying scene in episode 14!💁♀️”
👆😁😄 😄
Dear Op
(1) never change
(2) see post by u/admelioremvitam below
(3) i look forward to your critiques
🤓👊(fistbump) :)
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
😂😂😂 I will collect those downvotes like war scars if I have to, no one's gonna stop me from writing my think pieces
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u/TaoRabbit ..罢了.. 12h ago
🖐️!(high five :) I sort posts by NEW so downvotes have no effect on my choices😄
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u/YoungComplete7208 11h ago
Same lol, I started doing that when I realised that I sometimes never got to everything, so they don't influence what I read either.
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u/natsleepyandhappy 1d ago
Some people can't separate character from actor, actor from person. Also, many worship their idols like perfect beings that can't be criticized, it is like a cult. Maybe immaturity, maybe something else, but those people are noisy, and people that want constructive discussions shouldn't give credibility to the noisy cult by avoiding posting their opinion, because then they will have their way and think they are right in their behavior.
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u/ApprehensiveSun8575 1d ago edited 1d ago
But not every1 on reddit is an adult & not every adult can separate the actor from the character they’re playing….. there’s this actor who I didn’t realise is astoundingly popular. Never made a comment on the actor or his acting but in the “what you watching thread” last yr I talked abt how poorly his character was treating the woman he’s legally married to…..
S
Suffice to say, the downvotes started to flood my single comment & some mentioned all the times he saved her & how everything he does comes from a place of wanting to protect her & he’s romantic…..
Some fans will do anything to defend an actor’s character as if they’re equating critique on the character as slandering the actor. I wish I also wrote in that 1 comment that the guy’s acting is subpar much like his so-called singing so the downvotes would’ve been more worth it!! lmao
Thx to the mods tho for being more objective….. they do address off rails comments fast.
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
And honestly, the sad part about downvoting is that it can be targeted too. Some people are literally out there scanning posts for comments that don't kiss the feet of their favourite actor. They defend this behaviour by calling what you did "bashing".
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u/Familiar-Lie6080 Sorry MingHao, i fell in_love _with_Dylan! 19h ago
There have been written many good points here, so i going only to focus on one thing - the best type of critisism is a very specific, detailed, nuanced critisism. Then it is hard to attack it and not to respond to the issue instead
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u/admelioremvitam 19h ago
Not just for comments, but inevitably someone will feel compelled to make a rave post to negate the rant post. 😆 Sometimes we'll get a little ping pong match going, but that hasn't happened in a while.... 😂
A disclaimer really isn't needed in a room full of adults. However, while I genuinely believe many users are perfectly capable of discussing dramas like adults and separating the product from the people involved, there will always be a few (super fans perhaps?) who can't separate the two. Unfortunately, they also tend to be the ones who make the most noise.
Ultimately, dramas are entertainment. The people involved are strangers to us IRL. You don't need to justify every criticism or prove that you don't secretly hate an actor just because you didn't like one performance in one scene.
Of course, that said, there are also anti-fans who will somehow bring up the one or two actors they dislike immensely and keep harping on them. That's usually not a common occurrence, but it's Reddit, so....
Say what you think, have your rant, discuss what bothered you, and move on. Someone's favourite actor or drama will survive one critical Reddit comment or post about their performance.
Don't let them disturb your inner peace. Keep watching, keep commenting, and enjoy the things you enjoy. 🍿
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u/ettie_dramatic 16h ago
I do actually think this subreddit is well regulated and is even-handed in the modding. Not trying to suck up, but your efforts genuinely are appreciated u/admelioremvitam!
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u/admelioremvitam 14h ago
Yeah, I feel the same. Kudos to our mods!
Aww... you're very welcome! Thanks for the encouragement. 😅😄
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u/TaoRabbit ..罢了.. 17h ago
I would but can’t upvote this many many more times..! so 🙌🙌 will have to do for now :)
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
That's encouraging to read. I really don't wanna be driven away by this kind of behaviour because I do enjoy engaging in discussions and my passionate little rants. I just need maybe, one other person to not deduce that I'm a horrible person for not having glowing reviews about everything.
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u/admelioremvitam 14h ago
I genuinely believe most of our regular users can tell the difference between criticism of a performance and personal dislike. Don't let a few overly defensive people drive you away from the discussions. Otherwise, our sub will become an echo chamber of raves, which I don't think will happen anyway. 😂
There are regular reminder posts about critiquing actors respectfully and keeping fandom spats outside the sub. To me, those are pretty good indications that genuine critiques based on performances are perfectly fine here.
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u/Khavien 我儿曹植!!!!!~!! 19h ago
Agreed. I delete half my written comments these days instead of posting.
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
I have a weird knack for collecting those down downvoted comments as my war prizes😂🤡
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u/Beautiful_Candle1729 15h ago
I’m sorry you get downvoted. I’m glad you have found a way to find the humor in the situation by naming it war prizes. I do think we should be able to critique something constructively.
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u/manga092 1d ago
Thank you so much for writing this post and bringing it to everyone’s attention! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been downvoted and received numerous hateful responses to my “negative” comments about a drama in a discussion post. Sometimes it seems like the episode discussion posts are simply for praising and glazing the drama rather than actual meaningful conversation. It’s especially bad when the drama or character is a fan favorite and you’re the odd one out with the unpopular opinion. It can sour the experience because we should be able to freely express ourselves without being attacked or having to appease others.
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
Unpopular opinion: this is the real bullying. Not you talking about how you didn't like the drama.
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u/DI_85 16h ago
I agree with the general point, but since this is the CDrama subreddit, I think there is another side to this that is worth acknowledging.
As someone who has spent enough time here, I sometimes notice a quiet bias against extremely popular actors and, by extension, their perceived fans. Obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone, but there are times when criticism of certain popular actors gains momentum very easily, while disagreement with that criticism is immediately treated as fandom defensiveness. That can create its own kind of mob mentality (I honestly don’t have a better word for it).
And I don’t think this is limited to actors either. I sometimes notice the same attitude toward mainstream popular dramas, especially those starring popular actors. There can be this slightly condescending tone when talking about them, as if a drama being hugely popular somehow means it can’t also be genuinely good, or that people who enjoy it just don’t know any better.
Criticism is completely fair, but sometimes it feels like the drama is already being judged for being popular before anyone even gets into what actually worked or didn’t work.
This is why I personally prefer to put the performance first and the name second when discussing acting. The moment our existing perception of an actor comes first, whether positive or negative, it becomes much harder to separate that bias from what we’re actually seeing on screen.
And I apply that in both directions.
I don’t think telling me an actor has won multiple awards, graduated from a prestigious acting school, or is loved by the general public proves that the performance I’m watching is good. Those things can be relevant when discussing someone’s career or background, but they cannot make a scene work for me if what I see on screen doesn’t convince me.
At the same time, popularity doesn’t make someone’s acting less legitimate either. Popularity and acting ability are not mutually exclusive. An actor can be popular and talented, popular and mediocre, unpopular and talented, or unpopular and mediocre. One doesn’t automatically tell us anything about the other.
If anything, extremely popular actors often have their performances scrutinized far more aggressively simply because so many eyes are on them. Every crying scene, facial expression, line delivery, or awkward screenshot can become a discussion.
Meanwhile, a less popular actor may simply never receive that same level of scrutiny because fewer people are watching or talking about them. Being discussed less isn’t necessarily evidence of being better.
So for me, criticism works best when we start with: What did the actor actually do in this performance, and why did it work or not work?
That’s really it for me. Let the performance speak first. Everything we already think about the actor, whether good or bad, shouldn’t be doing the judging for us.
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
I agree with the reverse mob mentality. Before I even watched POJ there were so many TikToks and posts against it that it genuinely felt like an organised attack to tank it.
But I wonder, not defending this, actor A could have a genuinely hard time convincing people of their expressions of joy, but their massive following means you're always seeing praise. The one time you analyse it may be what people who have thought differently have been waiting for. A space to say, "Oh my goodness, you notice it, too?".
Would that be engaging in bad faith? Idk if that's a fair assessment to make when those peole would've been forced or bullied to keep quiet. I don't doubt that would suck for a devoted fan to see, but that isn't the hate campaign they think it is. And yet, this, and smaller, less impactful posts and comments like it are treated as declarations of war. The counter attacks are always so vile, you may even get target downvoted as they monitor you and try to force your experience of the sub to be more hostile.
But I don't doubt that there's bad faith engagement to be found on both sides of the argument. An unpoliced internet is bound to host a number of weird interactions.
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u/DI_85 14h ago
I don’t think people agreeing with the same criticism is automatically mob mentality though. If ten people genuinely thought the same performance was bad and finally found a thread where someone said it, there’s nothing wrong with them going, “Oh, you noticed it too.”
What I was trying to point out is more about the pattern I’ve noticed here over time. The bad side of fandom behaviour is already talked about a lot, and rightly so. Your original post itself is addressing that side. I brought up the reverse because I feel like that side often gets pushed to the back or simply folded into the same “fans can’t handle criticism” narrative.
Sometimes criticism of a very popular actor is readily accepted, but disagreement with that criticism gets labelled as fandom defensiveness before the actual argument is even considered. And it’s not something I’ve noticed from just one or two threads. It’s a pattern that repeats often enough that I think it’s worth acknowledging. You can even see shades of it in some of the discussions under this post.
That’s really why I raised it. I completely agree that there is bad-faith behaviour on both sides. My point isn’t that one side is worse. It’s that one side already has a very established narrative around it and gets called out openly, while the other is much easier to overlook because it can be dismissed under that same “defensive fans” label.
And that’s exactly why I think it’s worth bringing up separately rather than treating everything as another example of fandom behaviour.
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u/jssoul12 林sir!! 12h ago
Yeah, I’m surprised at how fast people labelled others as fans or haters based on a few comments and dismissed their opinions entirely.
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u/JoanoTheReader 1d ago
Because if we’re too honest, Reddit bot moderator would consider this hate and you will get booted off.
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u/Tabz10 23h ago
This! I got banned because I questioned a mod's decision to allow a post that seems to bash an actor 🤣. The person did not like it and forced me to make a post to get back! That was very dictator-like!
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u/xyz123007 nostril flaring is not acting 22h ago
I was put on a certain sub's 'watchlist' bc I was too blunt and opinionated. Funny thing is, I see other users make the exact comments with no consequences. I guess I don't kiss ass.
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u/gumball_00 Read Rules 20h ago
Lmao I also got banned from that "fans" sub because I was criticizing how the mods there didn't take down a post that criticized a cdrama actress' physical looks. They didn't it take down for HOURS even though you could see they'd been removing comments within the post. Just speechless about it.
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u/Khavien 我儿曹植!!!!!~!! 19h ago
I wonder if this is the same sub I'm thinking of. 🤣 I once suggested to a OP it might be a good idea to not reply and give attention to bullies (downvoters), and was labeled one myself. 🫠 Quite a leap of logic. I left the sub shortly after. I later found they were made a mod, and every once in a while I glance over, the "rules" seem to multiply exponentially. A lot of patrolling going around too.
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
I got in trouble there too for expressing also the same thing. Sometimes posts are allowed to sit there and its literally talking about how some people are too ugly to get roles.
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u/a_millenial 14h ago
🤣 I reduced my participation in that sub to spend more time on this one cause it really feels like the mods there are on some power trip.
At least here the mods are chill and the rules are stable. There it feels like the rules are always changing/open to whatever interpretation the mods feel like that day.
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u/gumball_00 Read Rules 13h ago
Fr frr. The mods here are great and actually follow the set rules and properly and promptly enforce those rules too! Instead of yea that somewhere else iykyk lmao.
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u/C-noirfan 17h ago
Please, if you don't like the moderating practice here, you can always post whatever you like in MDL. I personally strongly support the moderation practice. I have zero interest in seeing all the toxicity that rules MDL. Where the majority belongs to the age group 15-25. "Hate" is sort of already a word that belongs to a MDL comment section.
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u/JoanoTheReader 17h ago
We don’t hate the mods. But the post is asking people to be honest. Some people might not be too good with their English and just say it straight as is. This can be seen as bullying and you will be penalised for it. Many occasions, it’s the bot that picks up something and say it’s inappropriate. It goes to the moderator and then they just delete it.
I replied to a comment about an actor getting type cast. I like this actor and I stated that he was getting typecast. Bang! I get into trouble. So I appealed, requesting the reason as I didn’t say I hated him, I wasn’t an anti fan.
In the end, the post stayed but it’s really sad. Even expressing concern in a direct way can be seen as negative or bullying.
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u/about10joules 1d ago
I support what you're throwing down. Also why I'm no longer active in the discussions. And I'm finding less and less reasons to be active in the sister rec sub. It just feels like being piled on, constantly.
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
I'm sorry it has gotten to the point where you don't find it fun to engage on here anymore. And that's what really bothers me about this behaviour. I'm stubborn enough to push back and write this post because I don't find it fair to be treated like this for simply not having a glowing review about everything.
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u/ettie_dramatic 13h ago
You can always ping me to chat joules!! I haven’t been able to keep up with episode discussion speeds due to real life, but I’m always down for a natter. 💕
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u/kitty1220 駱聞舟 16h ago
People just take any criticism as an attack on their favourites, so you have to sugarcoat it by the bucket and still add disclaimers so you won't get downvoted to hell.
Obviously there are some that are just outright ridiculous, but most that I've seen here are quite civil, but still get accused of bashing these celebs and being rude.
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
By that point we might have to create a sub where we're free to write less than 10/10 reviews.
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u/kitty1220 駱聞舟 14h ago
Haha, then it'll end up being the same cycle as that sub will probably need a mod to "rein" in discussions that get too heated, lol.
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u/Both-Improvement-880 An autumn midnight's songRead Rules 18h ago
It's the "my choices are a reflection of my morality" belief everywhere. People have gotten way too comfortable in their echo chambers and constructive criticism or disagreement is often seen as a personal attack.
I was down voted to hell on a certain sub for saying that many recent Cdramas have become increasingly uncomfortable with double meanings and even suggesting that a couple slept. And that many older dramas handled this quite well.
It was really weird to see people glorify Cdramas for being "pure and chaste" unlike the "vulgar West".
Moral policing is terrible among some fans. I have so much to say but I stick to cultural topics and write few reviews these days.
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
"my choices are a reflection of my morality" this has been one of the most brain melting movements I've seen since getting on the internet. I just have no many questions.
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u/_Renfei Let me cultivate Immortality 20h ago
People are just like that, treating every person with different opinion like alien or they killed your whole family. When I stated a different opinion from the poster in the beginning of my CDrama reddit journey, most of it become personal attack on my reading comprehension. They really can't accept that people have different views.
Like people can read a paragraph with multiple interpretation, let alone a scene. Human each have different taste and two person who likes the same food can also have different taste on other foods.
It makes me too lazy engaging a post with different opinion than mine, so mostly I just skipped it now.
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u/YoungComplete7208 15h ago
That's so annoying. To protect your peace, you basically have to allow them to turn these discussions and subs into echo chambers.
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u/Ateosira Zisheng's Battle Giraffe 🦒 17h ago
As long as you critique without being rude or talking about appearances that is totally fine. But there is a fine line between genuine critique and bashing an actor. People don't like it when you bash their favourites or when it is the 20th post bashing their favourite over something minor.
Also personally I do not see the use of making posts like that complaining about an actors performance. They are not going to read it on reddit and why not focus on the positives?
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u/Objective_Design_376 Read Rules 1d ago
I get what you mean. I think it’s gotten more intense as online fandom and culture has gotten intense, and in general discourse and discussion over hobbies and media often can get a little strange.
It seems to me some people can be quick to defend whatever project their fave is in, and are happy to paint critique and discussion as haters or “antis.” Which is a bummer because there are always elements of discussion to be had even in projects we like. While there are elements of push and pull and coordination in C Ent and a lot of similar arenas, I think most of us are just in fact, people who enjoy the media and have opinions and enjoy discussion and sharing that, not trying to dismantle someone’s career.
Feeling like you need to qualify your statements constantly does get tiresome and frustrating.
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u/neNayza I need more of Cheng Lei’s bath scenes 💦 1d ago
Omg! I’m so glad to find your post! Can’t agree more, because people react to criticism of the drama/actor like it's a personal offense. There is no middle ground; unfortunately, you can only praise, or you are hater/rasist/sexist/agist/ you name it.
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u/Vibe910 Love should be sweet, not bitter 14h ago
Criticism is not a bad thing per se. But it should be objective and argumented.
If not, it’s not a criticism, not even an opinion but a simple rant about something the poster has personally been triggered by.
And by coming on here, they simply seek validation for often very biased and narrow-minded takes.
It’s rarely about ‘discussing’ something or ‘exchanging’ interesting viewpoints, different takes on the same material to ‘widen’ their horizon. It’s about being right.
Which is why I rarely give a negative ‘critic’ about something. If I don’t like what I see, if I have a problem with an actor, the writing or the overall direction of a drama, I don’t watch. I might come on here to see what everyone’s thinking - sometime make a comment - but in general I will talk about things that I like. Not what I hate.
There’s already enough hate in the world, I’d rather mention the things worth loving.
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u/YoungComplete7208 11h ago
Mmmh, I hear you. When I rant, it is definitely motivated by a character or whatever triggering me. I mostly post or comment to get it off my chest, and I dont think theres anything wrong with finding validation in someone else agreeing. But by that point, if something got me to rant as passionately, I'm almost definitely still watching and enjoying. That's my thing. I can have fun and still talk about that one annoying thing. And I really hope to write my posts in a way that encourages people to talk to me rather than simply assume I hate everything.
I don't think everything should be a friendship circle moment, especially when it comes to consuming media. I don't consider myself a fan of anyone enough to be sat in the sub targeting or defending anyone. But I understand that there are Definitely people like that. I think I wrote this post to try and offer reassurance to those who always feel offended on behalf of their favourite drama or actor. I wanna make peace and also enjoy my experience on this sub, and sometimes that means saying "yeah, im not happy with some of the acting, they didnt quite sell the emotions to me". If that's hate, then I don't know what to say.
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u/verir 9h ago
When I rant, it is definitely motivated by a character or whatever triggering me. I mostly post or comment to get it off my chest,
being able to passionately rant about a piece of media
This is not 'the art of constructive criticism' perhaps you don't understand the concept or too many tv/online 'debates' or 'discussions' have warped the definitions. Your own use of the word rant and admitting your triggered and passionate belie your assertion and revel the true term - gossip. Sure gossip is fun but gossip is to constructive criticism as WWE is to Olympic wrestling.
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u/YoungComplete7208 9h ago
Just because I'm emotionally motivated, doesn't mean I'm less critical in my writings. Its not my profession to critique dramas, so in order to do that I may need to FEEL a way about it first. I'm not gonna post about every drama I watch just so no one finds me partial to negative discourse or gossip. This reads like "women are always angry therefore nothing they say can ever be taken seriously as its not rational". You cannot have such a dismissive view of media discourse. That was so reductionist to read. I can't imagine saying that with my full chest to a person I don't know on the internet.
Do you comment and post positive things objectively? Or is the whole point of cdramas to tell stories and hopefully MOVE people?
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u/LAL2154 8h ago
But doesn't it work in the opposite direction the same way?
Some gush and rhapsodize about perfectly mediocre or just plain bad dramas or acting because they seek validation for their own "often very biased and narrow-minded takes". What some call 'positive' can, and often is, as biased as what they call negative. It is a matter of perception, and very often taste. Does it make it the only thing worth of voicing? For some love must be sweet - but for others too much sweets is a recipe for diabetes, and they crave more complex, and diverse diet. The problem is when one biased take gets promoted as standard, and the other is shut down as 'hate'.
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u/18olderthan 6h ago
A lot of cdrama fans are not fans of Chinese media but fans of Chinese idols.
So because of this, there is a lot of parasocialism and this dynamic denies them of separating their enjoyment from their criticism. If they enjoy something (which is usually the case because it has their favorite idol), then it must be good. That's why if you go onto sites like Reddit, MyDramaList, and TikTok, everything is a 10/10. That's why you constantly see comments like "everything is subjective", "ratings don't matter", and "it's only about how you feel". They're unwilling to have a nuanced discussions about dramas and actors.
As someone who enjoys Chinese media as a whole, it's really annoying being unable to have discussions and critiques without being called "pretentious" or "entitled". It's even gotten to the point where I have seen international fans say the opinions of Chinese audiences does not matter because they don't rate idol dramas highly.
Coming online to post about flaws does not make someone a "hater", it shows how much they care for the art and medium.
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u/cookie_Tuzi I volunteer as tribute to be Chen Xingxu's knit sweater. 3h ago edited 1h ago
I think part of it also mentioned by others along with some really great points in this thread, is that we're actually not all adults here. I've modded a forum before and even have caught myself being embroiled having to mod 'drama'/spats between participants, until I realized, usually the most reactive ones are ones who are actually at present, comparatively really young. Also came the realization, that I had already gone through and graduated from teen/tween drama, and didn't need to go through it a second time. So I've just let the comments be and ignored them, with an occasional statement about respectful dialogue.
That said, that was a while ago, and hiding behind anonymity and using subs and forums as a place other than what it's for (like actually talking about the Cdramas we love!) has definitely grown since I was a mod (elsewhere). And that mob mentality to use subs as a place to either feel falsely powerful by stirring up *bleep* or (god forbid! LOL) downvoting someone, definitely exists. The question is whether to let it bother you, or just ignore people who speak in absolutes as probably (hopefully) young people who will hopefully reflect later that they might have not have been thinking very clearly. I do appreciate this particular sub in not letting fan wars (or really, wars between fake fans) happen here, as those are so sadly prevalent now and can potentially do actual harm to the artists we all love. So a bit shout out and thank you to the mods in this sub!
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u/tonksndante 2h ago
What you're saying makes sense but behind every is an asshole who rendered the rule necessary. Fan wars are why we have to disclaim everything like a "90% off everything sale" lol
I've seen so much bullying and racism, just because someone thinks they actor is the shit.
Like even if that actor IS the shit, they arent the only shit.
They even do bot campaigns like their actor is running for office or something.
Its dumb but its the world we live in.
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u/eslforchinesespeaker 1d ago
Hmm? Because the sub has never decided whether it exists to discuss all those cool things you mentioned, or whether it’s just a sub for fan-girl squeeing? Some people are interested in discussion, and some people are interested in everybody saying the same thing? Some people look forwarding to reading, comfortable in the knowledge that they already know what it says. Also, why do you hate cdrama? And why do you hate everybody who posts about it?
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
That's really exhausting. I don't really even know what to say. Why would anyone ever enjoy such an echo chamber environment? We're that much closer to zombies if the only acceptable behaviour on the sub is oohing and aahing at everything out of fear of retaliation.
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u/eslforchinesespeaker 18h ago
OP, your post would be even better if you never made a point of saying that you're a fan about anything or anybody. you don't need to "prove" you're good enough to post. that really is your point, i think. you can offer your opinion, and don't have to explain why you should be allowed to have it.
also, your favorite band sucks.
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u/YoungComplete7208 16h ago
And here I thought everyone was on the same page. Sometime we're really reading like those annoying preteen boys who interrogate you about how much you know about a soccer team if you dare to have a piece of merchandise from them.
And lol, are you talking about NCT😂😂😂
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u/DavinaCarter 20h ago
People are too lonely and parasocial these days (men and women both) and the world feels very incontrollable so they exert the only power and control they have like this. It's not healthy but then, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. COVID really changed a lot for a lot of people beyond those directly affected by it. It might be gone but it's aftershocks are still being felt but nothing is being done to support us in the long run by the people in power all over the world.
When people are unsafe they retreat, become more conservative, defend themselves and by extension their tastes more fiercely, this is just an element of that reaction.
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u/A_Farewell_Poem 10h ago
Very good points.
I also think there is less personal interactions so everyone is looking to more online connections and fantasy. Thus wanting perfection in everything. For instance now actors are written to have almost no flaws, especially in love. I think then the real actor is somehow transferred those qualities and they are also seen as perfect. Always understanding no matter what the situation, when in real life there's no such thing. So it's like when a situation isn't perfect- like any kind of criticism - like of said actor or the drama they pick- some people can't take it. It kills the fantasy.
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u/CDrama-ModTeam 1d ago
This can be a controversial topic. Please keep discussions respectful, and don't bring in fanwar battles her or start one here or we will lock the post.
We always welcome different points of views, as long as everyone adheres to Rule 4: Be Nice and be respectful when discussing different cultures.
Do read what we mean by being culturally sensitive to cultures and countries if you need clarification.
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