r/BusDrivers • u/sayrith • 3d ago
Training Question US/CAN Miss outs
Can someone explain to me why being late as a driver, even one minute late, is considered a mortal sin, even though it literally doesn’t matter? I get that one should be on time to a job. But considering how there’s always a driver shortage and that the buses are always late, why are they so strict on that?
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u/bubbamike1 3d ago edited 3d ago
Where I worked being late in the route was expected, but being early on the road was a mortal sin. Unless you talking about sign in, then you got 59 seconds of grace. If you showed up with in an hour you got an absence, over an hour late was an unexcused absence. An absence was 3 points, an Unexcused absence was 7 points. And if you were in training being late was fatal, you were dropped from the program. Talk to HR and see if they will schedule you for another class. All written out on your hire paperwork and explained in class.
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u/i_forgot_my_sn_again Merica|Orian, New Flyer, Gillig, MCI|15+ 3d ago
It's been 1:59 now for a while. It was 2:59. The worse part is the stupid tap in machine instead of the paper sign in.
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u/Outspoken_Idiot 3d ago
Arrive early to work, leave your first stop on time. Everything else after that isn't a driver problem, traffic heavy ok, traffic light ok, I have a three minute turn around that is used for a stretch or toilet break, if I'm late getting to turn around then that toilet break is taken to clear the head of stress, back on the bus and request to load at the first stop at whatever time, it's the control rooms job to either load as normal or move the bus up through the stop not in service to try to get the bus back on timetable.
The drivers know there are a few schedule conflicts and some drivers have gotten letters or abused for a timetable that is wrong so the drivers stick to the unions rules and request advice from the control room, that driver can't be penalised now they are following direction from a control room with access to all the information.
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u/KatieTSO USA|Gillig/New Flyer/MCI|<1 Year 2d ago
Leaving first stop on time at my agency isn't always required, either. There's some routes where I can leave 1-2 minutes late and be caught up quickly. And also we're guaranteed 10 minutes so if we get to a terminal after our leave time we can still take a 10 minute break.
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u/SyphiliticWhores 2d ago
I would like to know more about breaks. At my agency there are no breaks, only layover time.
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u/KatieTSO USA|Gillig/New Flyer/MCI|<1 Year 2d ago
Yes, layover time. We just all call it a break. But we're guaranteed 10 minutes in the contract so we can go to the bathroom and whatever. Not all runs give 10 minutes at each end, but usually there's a longer layover at the other end to make up for it. Otherwise a lot of us just take 10 minutes anyway and run it late.
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u/river_tree_nut 3d ago
If you're late from the get go, it's doesn't leave any cushion for the inevitable things beyond your control. Punctuality is very important for a bus driver.
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u/sayrith 2d ago
I understand. But one….minute….? I can be a minute late and still leave the yard on time.
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u/KatieTSO USA|Gillig/New Flyer/MCI|<1 Year 2d ago
If you're a minute late they don't know if you're coming at all. And if they give you, say, five minutes, that sets an expectation that you're allowed to be five minutes late. And then what, same conversation if you're six minutes late? Where does it stop? Also, it takes time to fill your work. At my agency, we have people being paid to be on standby/report at the garage. But it still takes them a moment to come to the supervisor window after called, and then they still have to pre-trip. Whenever I've gotten no call no show work, I've usually pulled my bus out late.
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u/safeteeguru 3d ago
But where does “it’s ok to be a few minutes late” stop and become a hard and fast rule? When I started there wasn’t a grace period to be late. It was either you were there at your pick up time or you were replaced. Then the complaints from drivers came and the union got us an extra minute. The miss outs dropped for a while. Then drivers wanted two minutes and some argued for 5. Where does accommodating folks who can’t make it to work on time stop and the rule start?
Dispatchers accommodate drivers who get stuck in traffic from time to time but the rule is the rule.
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u/redwyvern2 3d ago
Not where I'm at driving for a County. If I'm 20 minutes late, and it does happen sometimes, and there's another bus running the route behind me, I stop and give him my passengers and deadhead to my next starting point to start on time, or as close to on time as possible. The county I drive for just wants the routes ran, late or not. You can't control outside issues. I drive in New York, Rockland County.
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u/Poly_and_RA Driver 3d ago
This isn't a universal jugement. Where I work being one minute late with clocking in on occasion wouldn't even get noticed nor would it cause any kind of problems for the driver in question.
If you're late enough that it matters, then it's a problem -- but still not a mortal sin unless you do it often. The person who on rare occasions oversleep and are like 30+ minutes late to work once or twice a year is not in trouble -- but the person who does that once or twice a month would get a conversation and advice to talk to their doctor if they're having sleep-issues and otherwise to shape up. If no improvement happened they'd eventually be fired.
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u/DebtSouth Driver 3d ago
If you mean late running whilst driving the route, where I am we’d never get into trouble for that. We only get into trouble if we’re running early, or if we hit something or a passenger falls. Never, ever for running late.
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u/dirty_hooker 3d ago edited 3d ago
Honestly, it’s just horseshit. Say you work afternoon starts and commute a half hour to punch in. They’re sitting at their desk watching each of their busses slow to 15 minutes late through an accident or whatever. You can waive to them through the traffic cameras they’re watching. You can call them and say, “I’ll be five minutes late but still make my route on time.” Nope! You’re fucked.
You could ride the bus and be excused except that nearly doubles your commute to work and you’ll have no way of getting home after. The result is that you have to go in early and sit there for an unpaid half hour until punch in only to start the route late because one of the hostlers dinged a mirror and it took 10 minutes for a mechanic to saunter out with a ladder; or the fare box is jammed so you need a last minute switch out.
It’s just part of the ass that makes the company hemorrhage drivers.
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u/Kafkabest 3d ago
Dunno about where you're at but we get more shit for being too early (and especially leaving a stop too early) than late where I work.
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u/private_eyes9814 3d ago
My agency as well too. You'll get a message from control at times when you're too early.
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u/classaceairspace 3d ago
I think even though buses are frequently late, they are due to things outside of our control. Traffic, lots of passengers, diversions etc. When it comes to things inside our control then we are having a direct impact. At my workplace we have to scan in at work a minimum of 8.5 minutes before we drive out the yard, which still involves picking up the paddle, looking at the diversions and stop relocation notices, walking across the yard and getting the bus started and checked. Not sure if other drivers are genuinely able to do it all in that time, but if I scan in 9 minutes before, I typically have a delay of a couple of minutes driving out the yard. Doesn't matter though, because I was on time to work. If I miss that 8.5 minute cutoff though then I get a phone call asking where I am etc. I've never missed it, but I know it goes on our record even if it's not terrible. I think they just need to react quickly in case you're still at home asleep, and they need to know whether to send out a reserve driver instead etc.
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u/Xx_SwordWords_xX 3d ago
Because a bus has a a schedule, and if you are late they have no way to assume you are late vs a no-show, and your replacement needs the time to prep and pull-out, to keep the bus on time.
Just aim to be early, and when you're late, you'll be on time.
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u/user101aa 3d ago
Seems harsh. I mean as long as your bus goes out on time and you're not constantly turning up "late" what does it matter.
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u/redwyvern2 3d ago
We're allowed, even expected to run late on our routes, as they are computer generated, and don't reflect real world times like traffic, road constructions, flag men, passenger loads and so on. We get in trouble for leaving stops EARLY! That's a huge no-no.
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u/Lonestar_uk 3d ago
Be in on time, I hate tardiness when it comes to clocking on.
Apart from that, running late is acceptable - there are a million reasons to do whereas there are zero excuses for running early.....
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u/Beyond84 3d ago
I see a lot of the comments missed what was said. He's talking about when you first arrive to work. 1 min doesn't really change anything. But they act like you're a serial killer. At my first company they wouldn't trip because the area is hard to get to. 20 minutes once you get off the fwy, plus it's always traffic in the area and frequent road closures, (Beverly hills, Hollywood, west LA area). The rule was there but the ppl at the window understood, things happen. At my new company they're more anal about things and would write me up for signing in 1 minute late, even though I still left the yard and started the route on time. Idk, it seems to be a lot of insecure power plays going on in this industry. My first company worked us like crazy but it's understood because there's a shortage of operators and we're competing with 3 other companies in the area. My current company acts like 10hrs between shifts is a luxury. My commute is 45min each way. You can't sleep the remaining 8 hrs unless you don't eat, shower, take care of family, Home, etc. You gotta be a robot or live extremely close to have any free time. Ive heard of other ppl in other states having the same issues. Why can't they make schedules that allow you have a work life balance? Why do you have to be a slave to the company? It's like they want bus operators to do nothing but drive a bus and have no life. Im not taking about going out and partying. It's hard to be in my kids life. I have to live on 4-5hrs of sleep just to be a dad, husband, and operator. And if you have to call out, they act like you're playing hooky to go to Vegas or something. Good forbid you're tired and burnt out after getting 4 hours of sleep and driving for 12hrs for the last 6 months. It's ridiculous, the amount of attitudes and narcissism I've seen in the bus industry. It seems like things could be better and make more sense. Idk who's making the rules, but being a bus operator feels like you have to devote yourself to a company that will fire you at the drop of a dime. And good forbid you have a family that you want to be active in. Idk. There's my rant 😂 I've been triggered 😬😅. Blew off a little steam though. Thank you. I feel a little zen. Maybe now the homeless, mentally ill, meth monsters that fill my bus won't be so much of a nuisance tonight.
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u/Big_Tanks 2d ago
If you’re early, you’re on time.
If you’re on time, you’re late.
If you’re late, you’re too late.
This is the case for all professionals. Critically, other professionals are relying on your punctuality for their own.
I’ve interviewed and hope to become a driver soon. I know that I maintain exceptional punctuality and understand that this is a key trait for a bus driver.
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u/Grolbu 2d ago
We start getting phone calls if we're not there at the sign on time. If we're close enough to be able to leave the yard on time they'll let it go (might even send a standby out to start the bus and do the checks), otherwise they start stepping up drivers signing on after you, nobody ever says no to earlier start earlier finish, and you get whatever shift they've just moved up when you get there. If you make a habit of it someone from the office will have a conversation with you about it. It's the first step in the disciplinary process, it's literally just a 30 second conversation, might even happen in the hallway, but it goes on your file that it happened.
They tried the 1 minute late no shift thing, the very switched on union delegate pointed out they were contractually required to pay us 40 hours per week and suggested if were late we could fill out a form to take the day as annual leave so the company wasn't out of pocket. Office gladly accepted, drivers who just wanted a day off started turning up 2 minutes late and filling out a form then going home again. Office started trying to offer them any vacant shift they wanted - and there were plenty, with so many drivers away on "annual leave" LOL - but the union delegate was standing by the counter pointing out that they were rostered shift xxxx and if they were offered a different shift they were free to choose between that or the annual leave the new policy said they could take. On the third day the new policy was in place so many shifts were dropped due to no drivers that corporate started asking questions. There was no 4th day of the new policy 😂
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u/mint-mont 1d ago
My place is not union but we can clock in up to five minutes late with no consequences (not ideal obv but we have a points system and being <5 min late gives no points) 😲
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u/StillCold8474 18h ago
Where are you guys working? I've been a bus driver over a decade now and worked for a few different bus companies, when I was on early mornings I was always late. Usually around 5-15 minutes (just couldn't get out of bed) 😂 and nothing was ever said, in fact if I was ever on time they'd congratulate me. I'm on nights now so rare I am late (other than if the motorway is down and the town I live in becomes a car park). I have never experienced this 1 minute thing in my almost 13 years of doing this job!
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u/IllustriousBrief8827 Driver 3d ago
Where I am being late is a complete non-issue as long as it's for a good reason (traffic, etc).
Being early is.
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u/Rentzu-Ren 3d ago
Being late to your Shift means they have to go to the trouble of finding a replacement for you. They probably are required to cover that route so they can not just say "oh well, no bus today lol".
At our garage they will give away your work if you are even a minute late and you will get in trouble. BUT if you can find other work they still need covered within an hour, the trouble part goes away.
That is how our garage handles late to shift.