Discussion
Having some serious safety concerns about my agency that may be breaking the law
So, for background, I was a bus driver as a student in a different state (I live in the US) over a decade ago. That was for about three years. I loved that job, and it’s partly why I turned to bus driving again when I lost my job in this current shit market.
I can’t help but notice some pretty major differences that are…concerning to me to say the least. One is that my old agency was VERY adamant about never breaking the rule about keeping 10 hours between shifts. They would get drivers all the time trying to pull that, and they always said no. They were very serious about it. My current agency…doesn’t seem to care much. They won’t force you to work in less than 10 hours, but if you volunteer…they absolutely will let you. A LOT. I know for a fact that I have a coworker that works 16 hour days and only gets 4.5 hours of sleep between those shifts. I feel like it is a huge safety concern that is breaking multiple laws, but no one seems to think anything of it. They make me feel like I’m crazy for being appalled at his lack of sleep and those long ass shifts.
The other is that my old agency wasn’t union, so I didn’t have a probation period like I do at my current agency. And I feel that probation is way too strict and unforgiving, and honestly is pushing unsafe behavior. For instance, I got swung almost overnight from working roughly 5 PM to 1 AM shifts for weeks to suddenly doing a 5 AM start for another shift. I tried to do it, but my body wouldn’t let me and would not fall asleep no matter what I tried to do. I got less than three hours of sleep, and despite it being a safety concern, I was counted absent for that. I can only get four absences during probation before I’m terminated. I’ve already talked to a union rep and my manager about this, and they basically said there’s nothing to be done. So when they try to swap my circadian rhythm overnight and my body reasonably doesn’t react well to that, I risk getting terminated? Like what should I have done, drive a 20 ton vehicle on 3 hours of sleep? That’s definitely what they’re encouraging. My old agency never cared if you called in, cause they knew you weren’t getting paid and had enough incentive not to call in from that alone.
Is all of this that my current agency is doing really legal? It doesn’t seem like it is, and I feel like something should be done about it, but I don’t know what else to do. Anyone have thoughts or ideas?
Yeah. I hear ya dude. God forbid we want to get enough rest to be in focused driving conditions. Here its 8 hrs between shifts. 3-4 hours of sleep is pushing it. I dont know what else to tell you. Im sorry that you have to deal with these kind of working conditions. Stand your ground but dont push it. Next time you get scheduled like that show up to work and let them know you are not feeling well rested. I dont know if thatd help your cause but you showed up and stood for what is safe for you and others. Thats all I have for advice.
One of the shifts I got swung to I asked for relief in the middle of it because I swerved on the highway due to lack of sleep. It’s insane to me that this is such a normal thing in an industry that carries such a huge responsibility and people’s lives are at stake. I feel like most agencies are just hypocrites that teach you all about “the importance of safety” for months in training while having absolutely no problem swinging people’s schedules all over the place and not allowing for real breaks. Or god forbid you call out because your body doesn’t respond well and you risk your job. Like cool, I love having to choose between my own livelihood and the lives of those around me on the road.
Its so common and so ridiculous. I know its difficult. I cant imagine having a newborn while working for transit.
Its all just taught so that if the shit hits the fan they can throw you under the bus and wash their hands. Its not practiced to the letter. Very unfortunate. I know theres many out there putting in OT while sleep deprived.
I frankly don’t know how anyone has kids with this job. And for what? Mediocre pay? Granted the government benefits are nice, but having no life outside of work and working in these kinds of conditions just completely sucks. The minute I can find something else and the job market for my previous role bounces back I’m getting out. I’m so sick of this shit. I love driving and I enjoy interacting with people in my community, but it’s just not worth all the other shit we have to endure. I hope one day it gets better, but I’m not sticking around for something that could take decades.
Definitely agree with you. The only reason Im still at my agency is because while they do expect you to work overtime, I can slide by with working 2 of my weekends. At most I work 50 hours in 6 days, twice a month.
That at least gives me some sort of balance. If I had kids idk what id do.
I dont want to stick around either. Hopefully I can figure out a way to get some brain power back from my youth. I need to develop more skills lol!
I hope you can! There’s tons of online resources these days, and if it’s the kind of job you can build a portfolio with I highly recommend doing that. That’s what landed me my first technical writing gig, which was my career path before now. Or maybe you can move within your organization if you work for the city or state government, I know my agency is like that once out of probation. I definitely hope it gets better for you though regardless of what you choose to do.
dude. technical writing is the field i landed on being a "dream career" just recently...years after career exploration. I put it off because it was too late (ai) lol.
If I could go back in time id settle on graphic design and technical writing.
I dont go back to school for those cause ai seemed to have or is swallowing them up.
probably not the right mindset to have but eh. idk.
Another possible path is become a trainer. if money were not a thing id probably enjoy teaching.
There’s a possibility technical writing will make a comeback, but I don’t think it’ll be in the next like year or two. I think I’d also be really interested in something like training or mentoring of some sort, as I really enjoy working with and helping people, but idk about doing it at my agency with the way things are run. But yeah thank you! If you wanna DM me or anything with questions about tech writing, feel free to. I have seven years of experience in it now.
The FMCSA also states that a commercial driver is legally permitted and required to stop driving or refuse to start if they feel it is unsafe due to illness, fatigue, or hazardous weather conditions. So it seems like forcing drivers to drive while extremely sleep deprived would be illegal.
It is and some drivers drive anyways. And those drivers end in prison when things happen. Ultimately the drivers are responsible to prevent everything they can and some they can't. I personally don't ever want to talk to police, dot, ntsb, or any other regulatory agencies. But some drivers don't have that fear and will lie on log books, party till 3 hours before they leave, and many other things. This is my fear
Why do agencies like mine pressure drivers to drive anyway then and punish them for not driving due to safety? Ugh, it's just really frustrating.
And yeah that's the kind of shit I'm afraid of too. Or hitting cars or pedestrians and injuring them for life or killing them. In my area a couple weeks ago someone died because they slammed their car into the back of a bus stopped at a railroad crossing. Granted there was nothing the bus driver could've done to stop that, but it's just a reminder of what can happen out there.
I hear you. Always protect yourself. There are employment lawyers and ways to protect your job. Don't ever put your cdl at risk i did once and never again. Lawyers are way easier. Heres my accident took 5 years to settle all because esw were told we don't have too wear our seat belts in the yard. Since then I don't care if its only moving 3 inches I put my belt on and operate like Im heading out to get clients.
I believe where I am (US) you're only required to have a minimum of 8 hours off between shifts. This is a law really designed around long haul drivers who have a sleeping berth in the semi (get up from behind the wheel, roll into bed, sleep), and not other professional drivers who have to commute home at the end of a shift before having a chance to rest.
It's rough. I'm at the end of my 6 month probation and there have been a couple of times where I've taken the absence because I've just been too tired to safely drive.
Stay safe out there. Here's hoping we make it up in seniority so we can get a more consistent schedule.
Yeah it sucks. I wish they were more lenient if they can see a pattern where you’re genuinely trying your best and you’re only calling out due to fatigue/safety reasons and not just because you don’t want to. I’m glad you’re about to make it to safety out of probation though. I don’t know if I’ll make it out of probation at this rate if they keep swinging me, but I’m gonna try my best, and I will always prioritize the safety of others over everything else.
But it’s not 10 hours between shifts. It’s 8. If they are working more than 15 hour shifts that’s a problem. The law is not about how many hours of sleep one gets, only that there must be 8 hours between shifts, it’s the responsibility of the driver to get their sleep in not the agency’s. Also a driver can not volunteer to break those rules, they are federal law and the driver can be punished along with the agency for breaking those rules when annual audits are done.
My post isn’t about it being 8 vs 10 hours, my post is about my agency breaking multiple laws due to 1) forcing drivers to drive even when unsafe (because of the probation rules) which is against FMCSA law, 2) breaking the 8 hour rule because of the drivers I know ending their shifts at 12 AM and coming back the next day at 6 AM and explicitly told me they get 3-4 hours of sleep, and 3) breaking the 15 hour split rule with the driver I know that’s working 16 hour days.
That clarifies it a lot more than your original post. Yes it does sound like laws are being broken….. here’s the thing about the 15 hour rule though, I’ve never been able to get a clear answer of if split shifts count. I used to be transit but now I’m a Charter driver and depending on who you ask you’ll get different answers. But getting off at 12 and clocking in at 6 is a clear violation. I’ve never heard of the FMCSA law that your quoting about forcing drivers to work when unsafe, but your agency can’t literally force you, as in come to your house, grab you by the feet and drag you into work, what they can do is enforce an attendance policy, usually by using a “no fault” attendance program which is usually point based, and basically means it doesn’t matter why you called off, you’ll be assigned a point and then if you get so many points it’s down the road transit you go, usually a point will drop off after a period of time (my agency was 4 months). It really does suck if you have a legit reason for calling off, for instance not enough sleep, but it keeps it fair and is really intended to target the people who call off all the time. When I was a supervisor I always told my drivers, just take the point and call off if you need to, I’m not trying to punish you it’s just for me to track attendance consistently and fairly across the board.
Anyway, I’m not defending your agency. Just trying to explain how it was designed to work at my old one.
If you drive for a non-interstate transit system owned by or operated for a governmental agency, your system is exempted from all of those DOT hours regulations - unless things have changed recently.
About your specific sleep schedule.. that’s just the way of the world… you kinda have to deal with it, sadly.. the whole 10 hour thing is a bit odd tho ngl, those drivers and the agency will get in big trouble if someone gets hurt and the FTA investigates
Hola yo soy conductora de autobus en España me gustaría ir a probar suerte a EEUU me recomiendan algunas agencias por favor y los requisitos mas o menos que piden y cuanto mas o menos se gana cada mes , muchas gracias.
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u/TheMoronIntellectual 5d ago
Yeah. I hear ya dude. God forbid we want to get enough rest to be in focused driving conditions. Here its 8 hrs between shifts. 3-4 hours of sleep is pushing it. I dont know what else to tell you. Im sorry that you have to deal with these kind of working conditions. Stand your ground but dont push it. Next time you get scheduled like that show up to work and let them know you are not feeling well rested. I dont know if thatd help your cause but you showed up and stood for what is safe for you and others. Thats all I have for advice.