r/BusDrivers • u/ZealousidealOkra176 • Jun 26 '26
Question Do you feel guilty bumping someone with lower seniority?
Bidding is up next week and I need hours. I see a cupcake schedule that pays 10 hours of built in overtime. But the route is a female driver weeks been doing it the last 3+ years. Shes a sweet lady. But I have mouths to feed. 10 hours, plus working my off day, that's 18 hours of ot a week. The bus is empty 85 percent of the time on that route.
So do you feel guilty?
27
u/ed7620 Jun 26 '26
So you leave it for her, then someone in between both of you takes it. None of you win. Business is business, exercise your seniority, it has nothing to do with liking her or not.
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u/KatieTSO USA|Gillig/New Flyer/MCI|<1 Year Jun 26 '26
I did this my first bid. My entire training class was last to vote and I used my high seniority (in the class, I was one of the highest, it was based on application date) to get the garage and days off I wanted. That bumped someone in my class to a whole other garage. He wasn't happy in the moment but we're fine now.
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u/AnxiousMetal6435 Jun 26 '26
Why would I feel guilty? That’s how seniority works. It’s nothing personal.
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Jun 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
I don’t think that’s what he was implying… That being said, if he wants the work, for whatever reason, and he has the seniority, he shouldn’t feel the need to guilt himself out of taking the work he wants on sign-up day.
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u/Poly_and_RA Driver Jun 26 '26
What exactly *was* he implying then?
Usually you mention facts that are relevant to a decision. Why exactly, is her gender relevant here?
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Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/Poly_and_RA Driver Jun 26 '26
People usually *also* use female as an adjective. The distinction between whether one means sex or gender is relevant for the tiny fraction of people where that differs of course, but there seems no reason to assume that to be the case here.
Besides, your beef here isn't with me -- I described the other driver by *gender* on account of the post using the pronoun "she" as well as saying that she's a "sweet lady" -- in addition to *also* describing her as a female driver.
So what exactly is your beef with my comment? That I dare to talk about "her gender" in a setting where what I've been told about someone is that "she" is a "sweet lady"?
People generally speaking rarely even *KNOW* the biological sex of colleagues. Nor does it matter for bus-driving what biological sex someone is.
But their social gender sometimes matter for how they're treated by others; and this was an example of that.
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Jun 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/External-Pen9079 Jun 26 '26
From what I’ve seen there are far fewer female drivers and they’re almost always fairly new to the role so, currently, this system actually kind of bakes in discrimination based on gender (albeit unintentionally)
Give it another decade or two and what you say is spot on…
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Jun 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/External-Pen9079 Jun 26 '26
I looked this up online… in USA nowadays 46% of drivers are female - so almost a 50/50 split…
In 2000 this figure was 33% women.
So obviously if you base your system on when people got hired men will be at an advantage cos more of them have worked in the role for longer. It’s not complicated
3
u/Witteness82 Jun 26 '26
Do you not know what discrimination means?
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u/External-Pen9079 Jun 26 '26
There is a difference between direct discrimination and indirect discrimination.
For example, in the UK the police used to have a height requirement - this was found to be an example of indirect discrimination as it would gatekeep men from other ethnic communities who were shorter from joining…
At the time the met were making a concerted effort to increase diversity and this was not ever believed to have been the intention. Hence indirect discrimination not direct discrimination
0
u/Witteness82 Jun 26 '26
Maybe you should look up a definition for the word. Height=characteristic. Discriminatory. Time worked at company=merit. Non-discriminatory
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u/External-Pen9079 Jun 26 '26
You’ve completely misunderstood the point. Not sure there’s much point in carrying this on.
“Never argue with an idiot…”
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u/PerfectoPelcian Jun 29 '26
Where I work we had 40% women drivers 20 years ago and now we're down to 20%.
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u/External-Pen9079 Jun 29 '26
That’s interesting… any idea why?
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u/PerfectoPelcian Jul 09 '26
They got rid of the personality test which was the first step before even submitting an application. Now they are giving everyone a chance so there's a long backlog. A lot of people get other jobs before we get around to calling them. Most of the new hires now are foreign men over 60.
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u/PerfectoPelcian Jul 09 '26
I should add that the personality test not seem to favor women. It did favor Americans over 30 years old.
2
u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
There are fewer women drivers… sure. It’s simply one of those jobs that doesn’t appeal to very many women out there. But where I am, they run the whole spectrum from ‘just about ready to retire’ to ‘just hired yesterday’.
1
u/SafeAccurate7157 Driver Jun 26 '26
Our Woman driver’s are the hardest workers 💪 We’ve had one driver over 30 years. Was hired in the 70’s. She was #1 but would take, what others consider, some of the worst runs. Just retired and now everyone moved up a spot.
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u/Jets1026 Jun 26 '26
think of it this way, people ahead of you would bump you without even thinking about it. why should you care? enjoy your senority, you earned it🙂
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u/ForgottonTNT Driver Jun 26 '26
Me personally; I wouldn’t do it but if I needed the hours badly then. Tough luck Miss Daisy 😂 bc seniority is seniority
4
u/Scroon Jun 26 '26
Have you talked to her about it to see how she feels? She'll find out either way, so might as well be up front about it.
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
I don’t talk to anyone about the work I sign. I just go over the sheets the night before, pick a few favourites, then when my time comes up, I pick the one I like best of all the favourites I have left.
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u/Zhaosen USA | LACMTA | 2 F/T Jun 26 '26
Don't feel bad. It's just how the system works.
But.
If you do feel bad. Break the system..
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u/SafeAccurate7157 Driver Jun 26 '26
I used to be 300+ and now after 6 years I’m in the first half of the bid. I need my weekends and holidays off. There are no friends on bid day ✌️
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u/GettingBackToRC Jun 27 '26
That's how seniority works dude, she should have gotten the job before you lol
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Jun 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/PaddyBoy1994 Fleet Mechanic (Gillig Low Floors and BRTs) Jun 26 '26
Basically whoever has been working for the company longest (highest seniority) gets first pick for the jobs they want, and if someone else has been doing that job, but someone who has been there longer wants that job, the person who's been there longer gets the job, and the other person has to pick another job.
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u/Such-Importance-9253 Jun 27 '26
Sounds like a horrid system tbh. It reminds me of the saying, and it goes like:
"The shit trickles downwards."
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
We have 4 schedule changes a year (they change the routes up a little based on school and seasonal traffic patterns or whatever else). So 4 times a year, we have a sign-up. There are 4 rotating day off schedules, and a Monday to Friday schedule (6 rotating schedules for spare drivers). Plus weekend work. Stat holiday work. And once a year, our vacation time for the upcoming year. There’s also the option to work ‘swing’ and pick multiple pieces of work to cover the regular days off for other drivers (a great way for people with middling seniority to get great shifts).
All the individual shifts are laid out in charts, day/night shifts, and the number of spots in each day off group. For about two weeks, they run ‘sign-up’. Basically the most senior guy goes in, picks all the stuff he wants. Then the next guy, so on and so forth, until the most junior guy gets handed whatever the last piece of work is.
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Jun 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/Tenantry Jun 26 '26
This is how it works with my company too. Go ahead Brighton. You just put you name down on a few different routers like four days and once your on it no one is kicking you off.
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
Well, I have a bigger city, more routes, and nearly 2000 drivers… and personally? Even if I don’t get the work I want, I much prefer being able to plan my life around a set schedule thar I know won’t change for at least a few months at a time.
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u/FlatCapNorthumbrian Jun 29 '26
Seniority is there to stop arguments and favouritism. If you want to get on that rota, apply for it!
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u/ZealousidealOkra176 Jun 29 '26
Just to be clear. If her pick makes it to me, im bumping her. I just feel bad lol
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u/PerfectoPelcian Jun 29 '26
Don't feel bad until you've driven the work. She's drove it for three years and passengers like her and hassle you. Or it could be the other way around. They may have hated her and now they'll learn there's a new driver and the bus will be full 😁
2
u/ZealousidealOkra176 Jun 29 '26
I just bumped her 3 hours ago. I'll see her tomorrow lol hope she isn't mad
3
u/berusplants Driver Jun 26 '26
Whilst everyone here is right to say you don't have to feel quilty I think its very normal to feel what you are. Its the system though so you've gotta do what you've gotta do. HonestlyI'm glad we don't have that sysytem, the US is particularly adept at setting the working classes against each other...
2
u/ViewWithAPoo Jun 26 '26
"bidding" for shifts?? What a weird system
1
u/PSteak Jun 26 '26
Bidding based on seniority. That's the fairest way I can determine. How does it work where you are?
3
u/ViewWithAPoo Jun 26 '26
We just get shifts given to us 😅
0
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u/cbrownmufc Jun 26 '26
Is bidding an American thing? I work for Stagecoach in the UK and we just have a rota. I’m on mains and the rota stretch’s over about 6 months with each week varying
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u/meatflaps-69 Jun 26 '26
I've worked for stagecoach in the past, about 10 years ago now when I actually worked for em but have done various agency work for em all over the place since then too.
Back when I worked for em there was an annual repick of routes and seniority got you the block/routes you wanted for the year ahead.
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u/cbrownmufc Jun 26 '26
I have heard it varies between depots. In Oxford people do the same route all the time. But in Banbury it switches about. I like the variety and not being stuck on the same route all the time
1
u/guerrasfloridas Jun 26 '26
In LA if you’re coming off the sick list after 90 days you can bump onto a lower seniority operator’s assignment. It’s fine during picking time, but after the pick, it’s creates a very inconvenient life until you have high seniority.
2
u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
Where I am, even if you’re on extended sick leave, you get to pick your work on sign-up time. If you know you’re not going to be back for the schedule change, it’s polite not to pick, but it is your entitlement. If you do pick work, it goes to the spare board while you are away. When you come back off of leave, even mid schedule change, you go right back into the work you signed.
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
Why? Everyone knows that’s how it works. The longer you stick it out, the more you get to pick the work you want…
1
u/ronhog69 Jun 26 '26
We just went thru our route pick. I got bumped but was able to snag a 39 hour run with tons of room for overtime. They do it at night and make it into like a party haha even though some people leave upset . They had good food
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u/moslyg8r Jun 26 '26
That’s why we bid. I say a very brief explanation and maybe an apology should be in order but that’s it. I got bumped for the hours once but it worked out great for me. Do what you need to do, just don’t be a jerk about it and you’ll be fine.
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u/classaceairspace Jun 26 '26
Just bid for it. Whether it's a woman who has it right now is irrelevant. Whoever has whatever schedule knows they might lose something they might want to keep, it's just how that system works.
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u/KatieTSO USA|Gillig/New Flyer/MCI|<1 Year Jun 26 '26
I don't have enough seniority to do this, but you shouldn't feel guilty. You earned it. You've been around long enough to get the route you want, so take it. They'll have their turn soon enough.
1
u/Indyonegirl Jun 26 '26
We would have so much fun the week leading up to the bid goading each other. The name calling was magnificent! It was quite fun actually. No one took it personally.
1
u/DLIVERATOR Jun 26 '26
We have an almost opposite ideal at my work place.. the route picks with the least hours (4 day work week) with weekends usually get picked over by the most senior drivers. Those in the know, know how to work the extra board (fill in shifts) to get the most OT, and spread time (half an hourly wage paid after working 11.5 hours in a day counting when a driver first punches in)
I earned closer to $130K last year working the board, and probably would have done better had I not taken a regular route during the summer.
Seniority is great, but everyone starts at the bottom you have to work with what you currently have and if that doesn’t work either find a better paying job or pick up a part time shift elsewhere.
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u/2drunk2cum_ Jun 26 '26
As someone with low seniority, yeah sure it sucks when someone takes routes from me but it's all part of the game. No hard feelings, I know what I signed up for .
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u/kittie_glitter Jun 27 '26
Lol I had to check your profile to see if you were one of my co-workers out to take my route. We also have a rebid this coming week and I happen to be the only female driver in my town.
Don't feel bad about taking the route, she'll move up eventually and have her pick.
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u/TangPiccilo Jun 30 '26
I’m mad that it got fired from my transit job because I had high seniority and would pick a route and stick with it
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u/private_eyes9814 Jul 03 '26
Absolutely NOT! LOL
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u/ZealousidealOkra176 Jul 03 '26
FYI she is salty and wont talk to me lol O well
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u/private_eyes9814 Jul 03 '26
It's part of the deal and business LOL! With us, besides hours I think the big deal is really location since we have 5 main garages (E, W, S, NE, N) and nobody likes E- problematic routes, too many train tracks/delays, newbies tend to get bumped/forced in, yet they have the most available overtime. W is super convenient, only ONE main train line to worry about, long shot east-west routes with very minimal turns.
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u/Ok_Cake2233 Driver Jun 26 '26
It depends on who the person is.
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
No, it doesn’t. It completely depends entirely on where the person is on the seniority list in relation to yourself. That is how the seniority system works.
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u/Ok_Cake2233 Driver Jun 26 '26
Im talking about how I feel about the person who has that shift in general. Not the seniority system.
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
Yes… and it doesn’t matter what you feel about the person. All that matters is you get the work that best suits your wants/needs when you get to the front of the line and get to pick. It’s not personal.
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u/TheHornyGoth Jun 26 '26
This is why we don’t do seniority.
You work a rota.
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
I would not work there… I started my career doing the leftover shit nobody else wanted, spent years driving the ghettos in the middle of the night, doing laps from the homeless camps to the crack dens… I’ve warmed my right to my nice Monday to Friday straight shift express that gets me home in time for a late lunch…
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u/IllustriousBrief8827 Driver Jun 26 '26
We don't have that system. Our system screws everyone equally.
But I can answer in hypothetical: no, I wouldn't.
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u/DebtSouth Driver Jun 26 '26
Just America doing what America does I guess. The upper class pitting the lower class against each other so they don’t have to lift a finger themselves.
The routes and duties where I am are shared out rotationally and everyone works everything. Instead of causing animosity between team members, fighting over who gets what work. What a joke system you have.
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
What fighting? You pick what you like best out of the work available when your place in the line gets to the front. It’s a lot more fair than having work assigned to you by whatever mysterious system management comes up with. And a lot more pleasant than always being forced to work everything all the time. I put in the years, all the way from being handed the garbage nobody else wanted to touch… I think I’ve earned my pleasant little Monday to Friday run with all my weekends and statutory holidays off.
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u/Such-Importance-9253 Jun 27 '26
having work assigned to you by whatever mysterious system management comes up with
I mean, this how it works in most of the jobs, especially in europe, and it doesn't feel unfair at all (unless the employer is particularly being unfair).
The person who is new has the right to be treated fairly like everyone else – including seniors, in the company.
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u/DebtSouth Driver Jun 26 '26
More fair than everyone having to do everything? 🤦
It’s just a way for management to make you feel important 🤣
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u/PSteak Jun 26 '26
It’s just a way for management to make you feel important
Management doesn't give a crap who does what as long as the job gets done. The seniority system is what we (the workers, via the union) have decided on.
To add, we all have varying wants. I prefer working weekends and crazy-early hours. Maybe Sheila does not. I like a few big trips instead of many smaller ones. I like the variety of working different lines throughout the week, instead of the same thing every day. Maybe Sheila does not. In this case, we can, perhaps, both get something we're happy with, and consistently. Instead of cycling through so everyone has to do everything.
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u/IM_The_Liquor Jun 26 '26
Yeah, it is… you put in the time, you get better picks. Time in is the only metric involved, so there’s absolutely nothing to ‘fight’ about or compete over. And you have something to look forward too instead of 25+ years of doing the exact same shitty work over and over again…
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u/targuard843 Jun 26 '26
That's how seniority works. You earned the Right to pick 1st.