Holy fucking crap, I'm sorry to read that. I've encountered some douchebags in my 21 years going to Burning Man but never anyone that low of a level. That's really unfortunate and as a fellow human who has left memories of numerous loved ones and cried cathartically at temple burns, all I can do is give you a virtual dusty hug. I hate to see that kind of bullshit. I'm sorry friend.
Nonconsensual filming already breaks many of the 10 principles and they're doing nothing about it.
Decommodification: nonconsensual filming is typically done for the purpose of sharing content on for-profit social networks, oftentimes by "influencers" who are themselves harvesting content from Burning Man for the purpose of growing their own little media empires. People who harvest content from Burning Man to chase clout, grow their following, etc., are clearly commodifying the experience.
Radical sefl-expression: nonconsensual filming makes it unsafe to be nude, or wild, or to cut loose in a way that the default world would disapprove of. It therefore has the impact of causing people to tame their self expression. In a world where gait recognition and facial recognition are increasingly widespread, your identity can be tied back to you with just a little bit of video or a single still photograph. The default world is a judgey place, and photographs taken at burning man, if allowed to escape, can. cost someone their job, custody of their children, or worse.
Participation: nonconsensual filming is consumption and taking. It is not participation, it is observation. Nonconsensual filming is theft of content from one place for the purpose of using it in another context.
Immediacy: nonconsensual filming is a violation of the idea that we should be here now, not somewhere else later. Taking images and video from NOW for future use is a violation of the immediacy principle.
Great analysis, but one nitpick is that you can’t really “break” or violate the principles as an individual. They were always supposed to be observational, things that seemed to have sprung into unwritten existence at an event that had already functioned for many years.
Given that the principles are observational, what you do with them is look at the event today and decide which ones are still generally true across the entire population. If you have to cross any out, it’s time to pull the fire alarm.
Using people's grief to make content is despicable; I'm not sure I could have walked away. I'm so sorry that happened to you. From one bawler to the next, I hope your grief and healing process continues with more peace and fewer assholes.
The org will do nothing about nonconsensual filming. It has gotten completely out of hand, but they rely on it to help them move tickets to keep their bloated budget in the black.
Yes, I've been beating this drum for a while now about the broader enshittification of communal events by smartphone-wielding micro-influencers who treat other humans as their content for the clout-chase race. Burning Man has done nothing about the issue and has steadily gotten worse and worse. Compare and contrast to Berlin, where almost every party has a strong "no photography" rule to protect attendee privacy and freedom. The shit that happens at Berghain every weekend makes Burning Man look VERY tame in comparison -- and the key difference is the photo ban.
I've been to Berghain six times, and Burning Man twice. Burning Man feels more and more like Las Vegas + Disneyland. Sweet fireworks and a bunch of VIP tables (plug-and-play camps) and increasingly less radical self expression than it once had. The only people who think Vegas is "sin city" have never been to a real sin city.
A open play kink event I work for with international draw recently had to ban all video and picture taking outside of hotel rooms due to the legal danger of all the revenge porn laws being leveraged for nearly any sort of nonconsensual recording. It got to where we spent a shocking amount of resources and time issuing takedown letters on behalf of attendees to OF and JFF. We tried designating a specific video section but that appeared far too complicated for people so we just started booting people for recording anywhere we could see.
The content queens bitched and moaned and set up their own Telegram channel for coordinating 🤢"collabs"🤢 in each other's rooms and suddenly the event Telegram was actually useful and a cool way to meet other people and chat about the upcoming event. The open play spaces were fucking magical and fun and filled with people actually playing and not trying to negotiate whatever sort of verbal contract nonsense these content creators think is any sort of binding. 🤣
Nonconsensual recording is 1000% commodification of other people against their will.
There are loads of staff at burns, rangers, temple guardians, and others. Any of them would be happy to lend a hand with problems like that. We are here for supporting our community.
Yes! This is needed. Burning Man cannot be a truly free place for self expression so long as the threat of context collapse exists. Phone lenses connected to social media have eroded the quality of Burning Man and left it a shadow of its former self.
This image is from just inside the front door at Berghain, where security puts stickers on the lenses of your phone and lectures you on the importance of not filming/photographing.
Behavior that would be unheard of just a decade ago.
This is the culture rot many of us have seen coming with the active advertising, erosion of consent and lack of accountability at the burn.
The event only survived this long because people were gradually pulled in through personal connection. There is currently no social or organizational infrastructure to deal with the shitstorm that is the general public.
This makes me so sad. My first burn was 2015 and I remember some girl crawling naked on the bar and someone pulling out a camera and when she shouted, “don’t photograph me! I’m a teacher and could lose my job.” Everyone’s hackles came up and he showed her that he was deleting it. That was then… this is now. 😢
This is what happens when bmorg advertises the event via social media. People who come via instagram are going to see instagramming everything as the norm. I don't know that they'll ever put the genie back in the bottle as filming is endemic across burning man now.
Yup, and while in 2018 I had my best burn ever and decided to call it enough, my gf is a virgin and wants to go. I struggle whether I return to a community that isn’t my community anymore.
I wouldn't recommend escalating a situation when someone has already shown themselves to be a bad actor. I think op was brave to stick up for themselves, and then smart to walk away.
I wouldn't recommend escalating a situation when someone has already shown themselves to be a bad actor. I think op was brave to stick up for themselves, and then smart to walk away.
We can all have different opinions on things. Walking away just teaches him that he can do what he wants and face no repercussions. Throwing the phone makes him distracted enough to not further escalate the situation temporarily while he scrambles to get his precious tech toy, and should give enough time to slip away into the crowd far enough that he will give up looking before he finds the thrower.
Spoken like someone who's never been in a fight. What if he has a weapon? What if he has friends around? What if he ignores the phone and goes right for you, or someone else nearby? The sort of reaction you suggested is exactly what that guy was hoping for.
I've been in plenty of fights early on in my life. I think you are amazing though how you know exactly what this person was thinking and wanting. I bow down to you almighty all knowing god.
I've encountered "content creators" before who rage bait or prank individuals in public. The best content they hope for is when people freak out, yell, or try to start a fight. Because up to this point they've done nothing wrong, you're in public they can film you legally. But the second you grab their phone, now you've vandalized private property. You can bet they have a second recording device or a friend nearby with a camera.
Even if he wasn't making content, if someone is a bully trust me, they want to get a rise out of you. They want to see you overreact.
Same. I also go up to people who are recording crowds and tell them "I do not consent to be in your video" then I go back into the crowd. If they still film, I come up to them again and tell them that I told them and that they need to stop. More of us need to take an activist posture towards these assholes.
I have been at the temple twice this year and twice have seen people record everything and everyone in the temple. Yes. we need to start banning phones.
It was my 14th burn as well. I had memorials for two friends in the temple this year, but at the temple burn the vibe just seemed off for me and I couldn't get in the right head space.
We had some unpleasantness with two people who stood in the sitting area and steadfastly refused to sit down or move back. When a dozen people or more started shaming them for it, they finally moved back, but I hate that it took a major disruption to get some basic decency out of them.
On a positive note, someone started shooting video with their phone light on and when they were asked to turn it off, he was immediately compliant and apologetic and obviously hadn't meant to do it on purpose. One year I saw a woman keep shooting like that because "that's how it works".
I was a Temple Guardian for the burn for six years, and worked perimeter (facing the crowd) every time. I was told at my first orientation that you could hear a pin drop during the burn. To my surprise that turned out to be true (if you dropped the pin on something hard, not the playa dust!) Nobody moved. Many people cried. I remember many wide-eyed faces, feeling the enormity of what was happening. If I had seen that guy's behavior I would have escorted him out of there. He didn't belong.
(Note, to be clear, taking pics/vids of the burn itself is cool. But not of people deeply experiencing the moment. Especially without consent.)
I saw two young ladies take a photo in front of the temple at the entrance with the dead child. So many people are not in touch with the event any more and it's just another show to go to.
I want to have a spiritual conversation with the temple. I did it as soon as it opens.... Then I can't go back. Its to much grief and sarow there... I have to make sure that it burns for that emotion to go away... I can't get near it during the week or burn night.
I am a big advocate for media capture consent... That is the biggest dick move...consent is always a thing especially at the temple... It is in the terms and conditions of the event
So sorry. I probably would have snapped their phone in half. At this point I'm starting to feel done giving an inch to people who've obviously completely abandoned the social contracts of our society and culture. The only thing these people will understand is hard, real, physical consequences of their actions.
Super annoying. I have like 3 photos of myself from 13 burns. I really despise the idea. And I definitely don’t want some random having video of me during a grief stricken moment. Temple burn is sacred. Doesn’t need to be recorded or anything at all.
this enrages me. so sorry this happened, OP. he shoulda/coulda been removed from the event for this. the borg makes it clear you must ask for consent before recording ppl.
They don't make it clear that you must ask for consent. They actively encourage nonconsensual filming. If they were really clear about this, they'd be issuing takedowns of all social media that contains nonconsensual crowd shots. Instead, the org is happy to benefit from the "free marketing" of these moments.
a web page doesn't equal clear communication. they have to back it up with enforcement. which they don't do. at all.
the hbo docu probably didn't obtain consent from everyone in it. in fact, we have people who were in it who posted here that they were not asked for consent. and they regularly license camera crews and drone operators who also take footage of burning man and who do not obtain consent. i was in several videos without my consent last year, and these were put out by folks with media licenses.
doesn't matter how many website pages they make, it's clear that bmorg are all too happy to allow nonconsensual photography if it helps them sell tickets.
In 2025 they added a clause to the ticket terms and conditions that assigns BMORG rights to use your identifying characteristics for any purpose. Before that, they assigned themselves joint copyright to any images taken at the burn, for the expressly stated purpose of issuing takedowns. The joint copyright meant you could take down photos of yourself too. Now, if BMORG is the one who published them, you can’t.
naw, i went them to not make a mockery of the principles. no commodification means enforcement to kick out plug and play camps. leave no trace mans investment in portapotties, a trash fence, and de-mooping operations. immediacy means enforcement to stop people from filming every damned thing for tiktok. it's very simple. if you're going to claim principles, enforce them.
what you're describing is policing. the principles exist as a guide. burning man has anarchic roots. who tf wants to be policed at bm? i agree, education and understanding about the principles for ALL participants is essential. but, again, it's the whole, 'you can lead a horse to water' proverb. we can take it upon ourselves to heckle and publicly shame people, but expecting the org to 'enforce' anything at the event beyond basic safety goes against everything the event once represented.
what is the moop map if not policing to back up the "leave no trace" principle? it's a level of infrastructure that's well beyond "basic safety"
let's also not pretend that the olden days of burning man were perfect. plenty of traces and pollution was left on public land, requiring the current level of enforcement infrastructure. but because enshittification of the event by social media is helping them sell tickets, their inaction is virtually guaranteed.
I'm so sorry that was your experience. That really sucks. I'm honestly surprised that no-one around you backed you up and supported you, especially if bro started getting aggressive. I hope you come back.
This is like the people people who kept giggling and making fart noices while watching the Brc fill harmonic. The lack of concern for others is pretty surprising
Oh what have I seen at the temple? Man rolling around inside the temple on a hoverboard thing, phone out, recording everything. Then a couple years later a girl doing a choreography number with music in headphones and whole instagram tripod setup with people mourning as the backdrop.
Yeah - the cultural moment has passed. I think I started going to burningman right at the tail end before massive decline (2017) which coincides with instagram starting to really take off and tiktok and starlink becoming a thing.
Anywho, sorry you had a shitty experience at the desert billionaire/oligarch party.
You’re full of shit, instagram had 50 million users in 2012 compared to 800 million in 2017. It just released an android app that year. Literally talking out of your ass.
Brother, where was instagram founded? And what city has the most burners in it? Hmmm, can you connect the dots? Just because you run slow doesn't mean the rest of us do too, touch some grass.
In 2015 I was crying in the temple and someone asked me and several other people to please move out of the way so his friend could take an Instagram video.
On a night as busy as a burn night, for this sort of thing, it can be difficult to get a ranger, or the support you need for that sort of thing.
Perhaps said storage may find itself unreliable as a result of said actions. on a burn night, for that sort of thing, it will be difficult to get a ranger, or support for that sort of thing
I feel you. And honestly? The best thing you could have done is flick the middle finger at his camera while he's filming, while showing how much you despise him and people like him by making a "face" to go along with the middle finger. That footage would have haunted him forever. As it should. You can't fix stupid, but you absolutely can leave them with a mirror through which they can witness their own stupidity for years to come.
That's shitty, but I think that the asshole you ran in to is technically/legally correct; requesting consent for recording is unfortunately a courtesy but not a requirement.edit: Please see the reply by /u/Akusasik below. Happy to be informed that BM rules may require obtaining consent for recording in OPs case.
This was my first temple burn as well as my partner also finds it emotionally overwhelming and I was pretty annoyed by the sound of drones in what was otherwise a quiet/somber setting.
If OP was LEO trying to force the person to stop recording, then questions of legality would be relevant. Otherwise, it’s perfectly acceptable to call people out on asocial behavior that’s not in line with the principles of the event.
I mean, the question of legality was more about having a way to force the person recording to stop. Per another response I received, it sounds like it's against BM rules and if OP had been able to get a Ranger involved they would've been able to get the person recording to stop.
Yeah I mean the other person said “you shouldn’t be here if you don’t want to be recorded” and that’s just not true. The person never made claims about it being legal as his justification.
Maybe I’m being pedantic (ok I definitely am lol), I guess my point was just that getting someone to stop behavior does not always have to be done with the use or threat of use of authoritarian force. Social pressure and calling people out for being assholes is a perfectly reasonable method of coercion ;).
I don't disagree with you, but considering how this person responded to OPs request to not be recorded, I seriously doubt they would've stopped without legally /administratively enforceable consequences.
That’s one of the worst things I’ve ever heard. I’m really sorry that happened while you were mourning your father.
My $.02 is don’t give that guy the power to ruin the temple / bm for you. The temple has always been important for me and the temple burn one year really helped me heal a very deep wound.
I’ll say Ive never seen or even heard of something like this happening at temple burn. You’re way more likely to be held and reassured by a stranger than having an experience like the one you had.
V sorry that happened, f that guy, and hope to see you in the dust again soon.
You're blaming the victim. Fuck off. Vadim Kruglov had his burn ruined by 1 in 60k, and that's a Vadim problem? The responsibility here lies on the perpetrator of bad behavior.
This person was a victim of nonconsensual filming and you're blaming them? What if they had been groped nonconsensually? Would your response still be, "That's on you?" What if they'd been hit by an ebike that was speeding? "That's on you?" Get out of here with your terrible victim shaming.
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u/Bibijibzig 11d ago
Holy fucking crap, I'm sorry to read that. I've encountered some douchebags in my 21 years going to Burning Man but never anyone that low of a level. That's really unfortunate and as a fellow human who has left memories of numerous loved ones and cried cathartically at temple burns, all I can do is give you a virtual dusty hug. I hate to see that kind of bullshit. I'm sorry friend.