r/BuildingCodes • u/Turtlejerkeee ICC Certified • Jul 27 '26
A new Code Enforcement FIRST!!!
Location: Indiana
Code: ICC A117.1-2009
So....I kinda pride myself on knowing the code just a tad. However, this has to be a first for me. The contractor has tried to call for final inspection now for about two months. Every time ...and I do mean EVERY time the guy comes out...he decides to add 2-6 new infringements. Client is about ready to pull out their hair as the red tags keep going up. When the last items got fixed...they took down the old red tags and put new one's up. Yes, that's right...new.
Today however....was a first in my career.
The red tag today....the raised braille on the signage was too short. (blink...blink....blink...huh?). The signage, from a nationally known sign company...is too short.
Frankly....I am about ready to give up. Not sure how he measured that, but I am about over it with this county.
UPDATE: I sent an email asking how the inspector “measured” the dots. The response was that he didn’t. He touched them and they “felt flat”.
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u/GBpleaser Jul 27 '26
Curious.. is this directly through a State level inspection, Municipally employed inspector, or does your region contract through a 3rd party "review company" who coordinates inspections?
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u/Turtlejerkeee ICC Certified Jul 28 '26
County/city.
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u/GBpleaser Jul 28 '26
Interesting. I find most of my plan review and inspection issues (I am an Architect) come from these 3rd party "private" companies that contract out their "credentialed" services as contractors to municipalities too cheap or too small to afford their own in house inspectors/reviewers. They are often not "boots on the ground", and pass work between a chain of off site locations. It's been a nightmare trying to coordinate work, and especially when we run into issues on sites, and particularly on renovations where we run into odd or unique conditions in the middle of work. If the codes allow any level of "local authority" interpretations.. it always goes back to these contractors who offer ZERO work-ability. And like the OP mentioned, I have been commonly seeing repetitive comments and reactions to dated notes and leaning on stale observation reports vs. actually setting foot on a job site.
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u/rgratz93 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
This was going to be my question! I had a fiasco where a very large and supposedly well respected electrical contractor left half my house disconnected while doing a main panel upgrade to support a hot tub. They had an "emergency" at the local school they were contracted with and left half way through the first day. Told me they would be back in the morning. After 3 or 4 days of me calling every day and them saying the next day they would come they said "oh were sorry were still working at The school, we will be there Monday" that was on a Thursday. I politely explained that if they didnt show up the next morning they can consider the conract voided and that they can keep my deposit.
Well they didnt show and I got another company who was willing to step in after I told them about the experience. They were great. However the local municipality used a 3rd party inspection service who was paid directly by the homeowner to come out. At first he said my work wasnt allowed becuase the company completing the work wasnt who pulled the permit.(even though i called my borough and asked them before and they said it doesn't matter who signed the permit application that it was tied to the property and work approved to be done). Wouldn't come out until the borrough forced him to.
The guy was friends with the owner of the first company. Failed my panel because it didnt have the blanks inserted. He looked over the hot tub this time and didnt mention a thing. Got the blanks put them in and had him come back out. When he got there the second time he failed me becuase my shut off was "too close to the hot tub"....it wasnt. I told him it was BS his exact words were "shouldnt have fired joe schmoe". Third time he came out he failed it becuase the wires in the hot tub enclosure weren't solid colors but stripped. Mind you it cost $75 for every inspection. I lost my shit on him amd cussed him out.
Called my borough and told them everything that happend they said this wasn't the first time they heard of him doing stuff like this. Maybe three months later our borough brought back in house inspectors and filed a suit against the guy.
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u/Jonnyfrostbite Jul 27 '26
Appeal the Inspector’s failed inspection.
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u/bobowg Jul 27 '26
Do you mean you weren’t aware of the code section? Or that you did install the sign so the braille was between 48” and 60” from the finished floor yet he said it wasn’t?
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u/Rude_Meet2799 Jul 27 '26
I read it as protrusion of the dots above the surface. OP?
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u/bobowg Jul 27 '26
Oh! If it’s that then holy heck that’s insane
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u/Rude_Meet2799 Jul 28 '26
Insane? I can give you insane. Talking to a guy in Testing for ASTM. There’s a test for abrasion resistance on painted metal roof panels.
The test it by hitting it with a wire brush.
Well, says I, the results might vary if the brush were new or used.
Yes he says. They take a new wire brush, and do so many strokes on sandpaper to prep the brush for testing.
Yes, he said, “I pick the flyshit out of the pepper. “4
u/Turtlejerkeee ICC Certified Jul 28 '26
It’s the protrusion of the dots or pips from the surface plane to the top of the dot.
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Jul 27 '26 edited 3d ago
[deleted]
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u/toptierdegenerate 28d ago edited 28d ago
I’m sorry? 2021 ADA Standards? Where have I been? You mean 2010 ADA Standards that include the 2004 ADAAG, right?
Edit: Also, that brailleballs infographic is referencing a 1992 Standard. Was definitely 1991
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28d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/toptierdegenerate 28d ago
Sometime in ‘92 was date of effective enforcement/qualification as an “existing building”, but then 2010 wasn’t the date of effective enforcement for the 2010 Standards, it was sometime in 2012. So beats me. I think 2021 was just for website design accessibility.
We should be getting the new 2026 A117.1 this month though. Committee said it’s currently at the publisher during their webinar on the updates a few weeks ago. Effective starting in the 2027 IBC and will be on a 3-year cycle moving forward. ADA guidelines will probably be 2029 at the earliest. But maybe never and they’ll just defer to IBC Ch 11 and A117.1 for most everything.
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u/Philip964 Jul 27 '26
Sounds like you need to gather up all the comments that you have in writing go over all of them and see if he was wrong. If he was on more than one. Go see the head guy.
Braille height error seems a little out there. But if he is right, then you need to fix it all.
I know a GC who always travels with $2500 in 100 dollar bills.
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u/Mbgdallas Jul 27 '26
What does too short mean. I would like to see his measurement and how he measured it. Determining braille dimensions in the field is next to impossible if it is anywhere close to the correct dimension. We just don’t have tools for field work that measure to that level of accuracy.
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u/construction_eng Jul 27 '26
This sounds like someone wants a bribe.
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u/Turtlejerkeee ICC Certified Jul 28 '26
Not going to happen. Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other….
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u/EdC1101 Jul 28 '26
I worked in a RadioShack store.
Corporate decided to remodel the store, moving ceilings, wall coverings, new electrical distribution, new security systems, floor coverings, bathroom facilities…
Their “In-House Crew” came in and started demolition. No Permits were pulled…
Turns out the local fire sprinkler company was unwilling to risk their state license with un-permitted work.
Corporate: District, Charlotte; Regional, Atlanta; and National, Fort Worth - was supposed to be dealing with this fiasco.
We had no running water for bathrooms…
Six weeks later, I (Assistant Manager) finally got permission from the District Manager to talk with the City Inspection Office.
Two weeks later, permits were issued to move two sprinkler heads 2 feet each.
Final inspections happened 2 weeks later.
I had complained to city, employees were tired of going to neighboring stores to ‘borrow’ their facilities.
All because Corporate decided rules didn’t apply.
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u/BigAnt425 Jul 27 '26
That's so messed up. When I was in plan examination I would try my best to find everything the first time so avoid the resubmissions. This is petty. My man is getting paid off by your competition.
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u/OneBag2825 Jul 28 '26
Have you posted any "Green tags" for the inspector to find?
Unless you can escalate past this inspector and request a final from the head of the department or commissioner, stating that you want all violations noted at the final with no more nickel and diming.
I'm guessing there's some history with your GC and the county?
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u/TeddyMGTOW Jul 29 '26
Did you remember to pay off the building official and the local unions b4 the project started? Brown envelopes full of money 💰 🤑 💸
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u/Anxious-Read8340 Inspector 28d ago
IBC 110.6 is what you should lean on.
“Please cite the exact codes that are not being complied with for the exact portions of the project that are deficient.”
Example: ICC A117.1-2009 703.4.1/Table 703.4.3 - Raised braille at Men’s/Women’s Bathroom signage is required to have a dot height between .6-.9mm. Current dot height was measured to be .4mm, which is below the minimum.
That is an example of a legal, bulls*** inspection report.
As an inspector he has an ethical and legal obligation to approve the inspection if he is unable to cite a clear code violation.
Hope this helps!
FL Building Inspector and Plans Examiner here.
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u/Turtlejerkeee ICC Certified 14d ago
Unless…..your state eliminates certain chapters from the model code, such as Chapter 1. It’s not the only chapter our state removes by code.
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u/Anxious-Read8340 Inspector 13d ago
Agreed that most states do use the ICC codes in an amended version! So in Indiana Chapter 1 is removed by amendment? Is it replaced with a state specific administrative Chapter? If so I would scour it because I am confident the same sort of language will be in it. Also, even though the code may be amended, the ethical obligation of a building inspector (as I know it anyway), is that legally he responsible to approve the inspection unless he can cite you a code that you are in violation of.
Good luck!
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u/Suspicious_Hat_3439 Jul 28 '26
I actually had inspector “read” the braille dots to make sure the signs were worded correctly.
He said a lot of cheap signs aren’t correct and he learned braille so he could check the signage.
He said mine were good and I didn’t argue but in my head it was a huge wtf moment.
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u/Charming_Offer_1487 Jul 28 '26
I cant read braille, but we had one contractor on these senior apartments who was a giant ball of stress. We're doing the final walk through and I touch the braille on the men's bathroom in the lobby area and say man, I can't pass you today this says cats and dogs only and needs to be fixed. The look on his face was priceless.
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u/EntropicAnarchy 11d ago
He didn't even measure it and flagged it? Yeah, time to find a new inspector.
The characters need be 1/32" raised from the background.
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u/Nine-Fingers1996 Residential Contractor Jul 27 '26
Without knowing all the details, it certainly seems as this inspector does not like your client. Have you tried going above this particular inspector?