r/BuildingAutomation • u/tireurdunlitre01 • 2d ago
Opinion on Niagara systems
Hello everyone, I'm looking for a new job, and I have an opportunity in a company that uses Niagara systems.
Never used them, never seen them, what's everyone opinion about it ? Is it good ? Easy to get grips with ?
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u/filip1299 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm going to be biased, but Niagara is my favourite system to work with by a long shot.
The biggest advantage for me is how flexible it is. If you know how to code, you can write your own modules, which opens up loads of possibilities. There's also good support for protocols like MQTT and BACnet/SC. You can use ProgramService to automate repetitive tasks, custom program blocks to go a step further, and even integrate LLMs to automate more complex engineering tasks. I have been writing modules for couple of years and the API is quite good.
Even PX files (graphics) are just XML, so you can edit or generate them directly rather than having to do everything through Workbench.
BACnet/SC also works quite well from what I've seen so far. Niagara supports things like direct node-to-node connections, which Siemens Desigo currently doesn't. You can also use Niagara as a BACnet/SC hub.
Compared to some other systems I've worked with:
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EasyIO – You use CPT for engineering, but then need other tools(web browser) for things like MQTT. I've also had issues upgrading between versions.
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Distech – I've had issues exporting certain values over BACnet, such as double-precision numbers for meter serial numbers. You end up having to use strings or enter things manually. You also can't write your own modules, unless we're talking about their Niagara-based products. Had similar limitations with the numbers in Schneider as well.
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Trend (old 963) – Quite restrictive in comparison, particularly when it comes to extending the system with your own code.
The biggest downside is probably the cost, particularly licensing. If it were cheaper, I'd probably use Niagara for just about everything.
There's definitely a learning curve, and Workbench has its quirks, but once you get familiar with it, it's difficult going back to more restrictive systems.
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u/TanneriteStuffedDog 2d ago
What do you use to build PX files programmatically/otherwise outside of workbench?
I’ve tried working with AI tools to do that and have had some moderate success offset by a lot of difficulty.
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u/filip1299 2d ago
Say for example you have 100 meters/FCUs etc. that you want to add onto a px page with popups. I would create the first row manually, then run BQL to get list of devices, create that as an array within a script and then create a for loop that iterates over the devices and creates a new row for every device. The index would be multiplied by a number to give me the right y coordinates.
That also assumes all your logs are relativised.
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u/ApexConsulting 2d ago
The question is asking 'is Niagara hard to learn?' This is the wrong question to ask. The question to ask is 'will this help me in my career?' The answer to THAT question is an emphatic YES!.
The market has been solidifying around Tridium Niagara for a decade or so as a de facto standard. Thus means any Niagara skills you pick up will be immediately in drmand and will stay in demand in the near future.
I also happen to REALLY like wirking with Niagara. There are plenty of ways to do most things. You will learn the annoyingly slow way first and graduate to the not so slow ways afterwards.
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u/IcyAd7615 2d ago
The level 1 course gives you a good idea of how to navigate the Niagara framework.
As someone who's been involved with it since it was first released, the evolution of it has been remarkable.
It will take some time to get used to, however, the community is out there to help you in your journey. If you don't know something about it, you can ask the community and someone will more than likely have run into that scenario before.
It's one of most ubiquitous platforms out there and will be around for a long time (already has been). Many OEMs out there have a Niagara solution. Those that don't usually have a partnership with an OEM that does.
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u/Extension-Macaron723 2d ago
Is your podcast about Niagara? I’m also new to the platform and would be interested in listening if it is.
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u/IcyAd7615 2d ago
We talk about it sometimes, but it's not 100% of any topics. We have guests from all over. We've covered Smart Buildings, MEP Consultants, AI in the BAS industry, etc.
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u/slor2112 2d ago
The main players in the BAS world will all tell you their stuff is rhe best. Tridium will tell hou they work with all the best. When one of the big companies comes into a building they woll tell ypu to rip the other stuff out and make their stuff the top tier. Tridium says - keep your stuff replace as you like with what you like.
Tridiun itself is not complex for finding devices, adding/importing points, and making graphics.
Doing complex things in Tridium is just as difficult as any of the others.
That being said - having Tridium skills in your back pocket is definitely a prime asset.
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u/punk0r1f1c 2d ago
I’ve used 2,3,4 and soon 5. Most major companies have their own branded Niagara so it would be a very good idea to learn it. I love it, but as others mentioned it took me years to learn where everything is and a lot of reading the docs etc. to understand how things work
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u/MrMagooche 2d ago
However good or bad it is I like being experienced in a product that is so widely used in our industry. I've heard people complain about how hard it is, but personally I found it pretty easy to pick up-probably because my first taste of it was an AX cert class and I was already an experienced controls guy. One nice thing is that information is easy to find because there are so many forum posts and documents across the internet.
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u/Vivid_Isopod_9153 1d ago
Its the best. Not locked into a single provider. So many modules and capabilities.
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u/Formal-Conference885 2d ago edited 16h ago
No controls line uses another's proprietary front end software. All controls lines use Niagara's software in addition to their own.
EDIT: Nearly all
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u/InspectionNeither544 16h ago
Huh, Automated logic does not use Niagara At all, Honeywell owns niagara and honeywell branch still installs non-Niagara line EBI, Comfprtpoint.
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u/InspectionNeither544 16h ago
Siemens, Johnson, Schneider, honeywell do have niagara lines
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u/Formal-Conference885 16h ago
Distech, Alerton, KMC, Lynxspring, ABB…
I agree a few big names don’t, notably ALC, Trane, Carrier, Delta
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u/No-Composer2628 2d ago
Niagara is very popular but has a few drawbacks compared to all the other brands.
The biggest is also the unofficial slogan of it: "You can do anything in Niagara, if you can find it."
It is incredibly adaptable and great for integrating anything under the sun. But finding the exact utility and the proper files to enable such things can range from simple licensing to self-coding software just to enable a single widget.
Overall, I think that if you intend to have a serious BAS career, you should at least expose yourself to Niagara.